Jeremy Bamber White House Farm...Innocent or Evil scumbag?

[Mercia Blackcat]

I think you are emotively projecting your own personal narrative on the events. Why would Bamber describe her in terms similar to vacant, if he wanted to frame her? He could have instead portrayed her as being angry, upset, in a rage etc. Instead, he simply told the truth. The rifle is easy to load, with there being some minor difficulty with last bullet. In reality, she wouldn't need to fully load the rifle. It's not a necessity. The victims with headshots were more than likely incapacitated / stationary when they received them. You are simply pedalling a false narrative that a sharp shooter was involved. If the shots are close range and in an enclosed space then no wonder they hit their target. I suspect Sheila was also familiar with concept of aiming a rifle, as we all are. It's an instinctive action upon picking up a gun to close one eye and stare down the barrel. Even if not every single head shot wasn't fired at completely stationary targets, one accurate head shot to a more mobile target (let's say for example down the stairs at Nevill) doesn't make her an Olympic sharp shooter. Re the ritual washing I haven't argued for that. I do not believe Sheila was clean as is made out. Though I don't see why or how she would be prevented from washing if she chose to do so.

What narrative? I am simply saying that the narrative that Bamber and his supporters are projecting is not consistent with someone diagnosed as schizophrenic. She was not bipolar (manic depression) and therefore not subjected to extreme mood swings. She did not have multiple personality disorder and so did not shift between different personas. She was not having a nervous breakdown (neurosis) and so could not snap out of her mental state which was organic in nature. She was certainly not a psychopath which is not even associated with mental illness as a psychopath is aware of the consequences of their actions and is manipulative and capable of planning in detail. Schizophrenia is described as a split personality disorder because the personality is split from reality not because there two personalities. It is the narrative that is being proposed by Bamber and his supporters which does not fit in with he psychotic illness which was being controlled by injections of medication anyway and so could not be avoided. Now you say ritualistic cleansing was not beyond her. Maybe Bamber described her as vacant because he felt that would portray her as zombie like. Sheila was like The Walking Dead.

Quite frankly if there is anyone bonkers it is Bamber and his supporters who support such a ridiculous scenario.

 

[Roker Skate]

What narrative? I am simply saying that the narrative that Bamber and his supporters are projecting is not consistent with someone diagnosed as schizophrenic. She was not bipolar (manic depression) and therefore not subjected to extreme mood swings. She did not have multiple personality disorder and so did not shift between different personas. She was not having a nervous breakdown (neurosis) and so could not snap out of her mental state which was organic in nature. She was certainly not a psychopath which is not even associated with mental illness as a psychopath is aware of the consequences of their actions and is manipulative and capable of planning in detail. Schizophrenia is described as a split personality disorder because the personality is split from reality not because there two personalities. It is the narrative that is being proposed by Bamber and his supporters which does not fit in with he psychotic illness which was being controlled by injections of medication anyway and so could not be avoided. Now you say ritualistic cleansing was not beyond her. Maybe Bamber described her as vacant because he felt that would portray her as zombie like. Sheila was like The Walking Dead.

Quite frankly if there is anyone bonkers it is Bamber and his supporters who support such a ridiculous scenario.

Her injection dose was halved in error leading up to the incident. She had had previous incidents, obviously of a lesser nature, but requiring hospitalisation or being calmed by her father. I really don't see what you're getting at. It just seems an awful lot of waffle tbh.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Her injection dose was halved in error leading up to the incident. She had had previous incidents, obviously of a lesser nature, but requiring hospitalisation or being calmed by her father. I really don't see what you're getting at. It just seems an awful lot of waffle tbh.

What evidence is there that reducing her medication by half would lead to such an incident?

The previous incidents were when she was not receiving medication.

You and others seem to have the perspective that because Sheila was mentally ill (with an organic condition) that any other symptoms of other conditions can be attributed to her because she was er mentally ill. You even claim she may have "come to her senses" as if she had had a nervous breakdown (neurosis not psychosis) and decided to commit suicide because of what she had done (even though a schizophrenic is not aware of the consequences of their action) and possibly involved herself in ritual cleansing and suicide. Even having the presence of mind to underline passages of the Bible. Not sure what happened to the pen. Maybe she had a change of personality into a different persona because she was mentally ill.

Yet despite not taking her medication for the side effects that included shaking and being described as poorly coordinated in the heat of the moment of a killing spree while being in the middle of a psychotic episode she could reload the magazine because someone has demonstrated it could be done even though that person was not psychotic, not under effective medication, and not suffering from poor coordination. If he could do it then Sheila could.

She could even conduct a series of psychopathic execution like killings not with random shots at close range in a psychotic state but precise shots into the temple area of Nevill's brain destroying both frontal lobes in the process, not once but twice just to make sure. That girl knew her stuff all right because she was mentally ill.

 

[Cow]

Now that is some degree of rational thinking and method. For someone suffering from schizophrenia it is phenomenal. Or had Sheila suddenly overcome the organic malfunction in her brain. Was she also having a nervous breakdown, neurosis, which is psychological rather than organic. So Sheila the schizophrenic (psychosis) displays symptoms of bipolar (psychosis), multiple personality disorder (psychosis) and neurosis but not only does she have traits of every psychotic and psychological conditions in the book but also displays psychopathy which is not associated with any mental illness.

Psychopathy isn’t a mental disorder? Is that what you’re saying?

 

[Roker Skate]

What evidence is there that reducing her medication by half would lead to such an incident?

The previous incidents were when she was not receiving medication.

You and others seem to have the perspective that because Sheila was mentally ill (with an organic condition) that any other symptoms of other conditions can be attributed to her because she was er mentally ill. You even claim she may have "come to her senses" as if she had had a nervous breakdown (neurosis not psychosis) and decided to commit suicide because of what she had done (even though a schizophrenic is not aware of the consequences of their action) and possibly involved herself in ritual cleansing and suicide. Even having the presence of mind to underline passages of the Bible. Not sure what happened to the pen. Maybe she had a change of personality into a different persona because she was mentally ill.

Yet despite not taking her medication for the side effects that included shaking and being described as poorly coordinated in the heat of the moment of a killing spree while being in the middle of a psychotic episode she could reload the magazine because someone has demonstrated it could be done even though that person was not psychotic, not under effective medication, and not suffering from poor coordination. If he could do it then Sheila could.

She could even conduct a series of psychopathic execution like killings not with random shots at close range in a psychotic state but precise shots into the temple area of Nevill's brain destroying both frontal lobes in the process, not once but twice just to make sure. That girl knew her stuff all right because she was mentally ill.

Can you show me where I claimed she may have 'come to her senses'? What I expressed was that with daylight approaching, police outside with loudhailers, and surrounded by the corpses of her family, that may have been a sobering situation. In other words, wherever she was with regard to her mind and behaviour at midnight; 1am; 2am; 3am; 4am etc, she may not have been in the same 'place' when the day broke. As has already been explained about six or seven times, head shots to wounded, immobilised or stationary victims would have been relatively straightforward.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Psychopathy isn’t a mental disorder? Is that what you’re saying?

Psychopathy is not associated with mental illness/psychosis which is organic. Someone suffering from psychosis is not aware of the consequences of their actions where a psychopath is fully aware of the consequences but just doesn't care although psychopaths learn to mimic empathy so can be manipulative of others who they simply see as objects to be controlled. There is not a psychiatrist in the world that would describe someone psychotic as a psychopath. The issue with a psychopath may be genetic in that they probably don't have the worrier gene. Their amygdala (the emotional centre of the brain) may not be as responsive as others. However, not all psychopaths go on to become killers. Some of our most successful people in society are probably psychopaths. In some professions it could be an advantage such as brain surgeons. Those that do go on to kill most likely had childhood experiences that brought out their psychopathy, the nature/nurture debate, genetics and/or environment. You could call it a mental disorder but it is not a mental illness. A psychopath does not experience empathy.

Can you show me where I claimed she may have 'come to her senses'? What I expressed was that with daylight approaching, police outside with loudhailers, and surrounded by the corpses of her family, that may have been a sobering situation. In other words, wherever she was with regard to her mind and behaviour at midnight; 1am; 2am; 3am; 4am etc, she may not have been in the same 'place' when the day broke. As has already been explained about six or seven times, head shots to wounded, immobilised or stationary victims would have been relatively straightforward.

The issue is not that they may be relatively straightforward but whether someone experiencing a psychotic episode could be so precise and methodical rather than random. A double dip in the top side of Nevill's head followed by another double dip into the temple and across to the other side.

 

[BBL]

Just wanted to chip on with a comment that really enjoying this thread and pleased to see it hasn't descended in to the usual name calling and bickering - and I hope it doesn't.

My question - has Bamber ever been diagnosed with anything that may explain his actions?

 

[rentaghost]

Her injection dose was halved in error leading up to the incident. She had had previous incidents, obviously of a lesser nature, but requiring hospitalisation or being calmed by her father. I really don't see what you're getting at. It just seems an awful lot of waffle tb

Can you show me where I claimed she may have 'come to her senses'? What I expressed was that with daylight approaching, police outside with loudhailers, and surrounded by the corpses of her family, that may have been a sobering situation. In other words, wherever she was with regard to her mind and behaviour at midnight; 1am; 2am; 3am; 4am etc, she may not have been in the same 'place' when the day broke. As has already been explained about six or seven times, head shots to wounded, immobilised or stationary victims would have been relatively straightforward.

Look man a schizophrenic acting mad and agitated doesn’t have a 100% success rate from 25 shots. There would have been a combination of stationary and moving targets Handling and reloading a gun isn’t relatively easy for someone in that state particularly with no experience of handling one. Not a millimetre of bees wax on her hands, bullets covered with bees wax. She didn’t do it man not one millionth of a chance.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

Just wanted to chip on with a comment that really enjoying this thread and pleased to see it hasn't descended in to the usual name calling and bickering - and I hope it doesn't.

My question - has Bamber ever been diagnosed with anything that may explain his actions?

His defence psychiatrist at the original trial concluded Bamber was a classic example of a psychopath who had responded as some do by blocking all memory of his horrific act. In those cases the psychopath may actually fully believe that they are innocent, a classic response of some psychopaths. Despite many assessments over the years Bamber has refused to release the results but claims to not be a psychopath. He has passed a lie detector but that method is not reliable especially for someone with no emotional response.

 

[South Banker Wolf]

Just wanted to chip on with a comment that really enjoying this thread and pleased to see it hasn't descended in to the usual name calling and bickering - and I hope it doesn't.

My question - has Bamber ever been diagnosed with anything that may explain his actions?

Greedy bastarditas and probably a sociopath. My monies on him not Sheila.

 

[Roker Skate]

Look man a schizophrenic acting mad and agitated doesn’t have a 100% success rate from 25 shots. There would have been a combination of stationary and moving targets Handling and reloading a gun isn’t relatively easy for someone in that state particularly with no experience of handling one. Not a millimetre of bees wax on her hands, bullets covered with bees wax. She didn’t do it man not one millionth of a chance.

I doubt this beeswax claim would stand up to real scrutiny. There were two moving targets, taken by surprise and who may have been in separate parts of the house rather than both in the same room as Sheila.. Once each moving target had been shot once or twice, they are less mobile. A ballistics expert has shown that the rifle was lightweight and easy to use. Some of the shots were at children who were asleep, from close or point blank range. Some of the shots to adults may have been point blank range. The defence now seem to be alleging they 30 shots were fired.

His defence psychiatrist at the original trial concluded Bamber was a classic example of a psychopath who had responded as some do by blocking all memory of his horrific act. In those cases the psychopath may actually fully believe that they are innocent, a classic response of some psychopaths. Despite many assessments over the years Bamber has refused to release the results but claims to not be a psychopath. He has passed a lie detector but that method is not reliable especially for someone with no emotional response.

There is no evidence to back up the first sentence. The latest assessment made reference to previous assessments. All with same conclusion.

 

[Mercia Blackcat]

......There is no evidence to back up the first sentence. The latest assessment made reference to previous assessments. All with same conclusion.

Author Carol Anne Lee who interviewed Bamber reveals in her book that from the outset of his arrest he refused to allow police access to his medical records pre-trial and did not want to be assessed, while a psychiatrist engaged by his defence declared that he displayed several classic psychopathic symptoms. Chief among these symptoms was his genuine belief in his own innocence. ‘The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real’.

Jeremy Bamber : the White House Farm murders

The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real

www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk

He has professed his innocence ever since. However, the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.

Concluding that he did kill his family and had suppressed the knowledge until it no longer existed, he added: ‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’

“If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber” – Interlitq blog

 

[Roker Skate]

Author Carol Anne Lee who interviewed Bamber reveals in her book that from the outset of his arrest he refused to allow police access to his medical records pre-trial and did not want to be assessed, while a psychiatrist engaged by his defence declared that he displayed several classic psychopathic symptoms. Chief among these symptoms was his genuine belief in his own innocence. ‘The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real’.

Jeremy Bamber : the White House Farm murders

The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real

www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk

He has professed his innocence ever since. However, the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.

Concluding that he did kill his family and had suppressed the knowledge until it no longer existed, he added: ‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’

“If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber” – Interlitq blog

Easily refutable.

 

[rentaghost]

I doubt this beeswax claim would stand up to real scrutiny. There were two moving targets, taken by surprise and who may have been in separate parts of the house rather than both in the same room as Sheila.. Once each moving target had been shot once or twice, they are less mobile. A ballistics expert has shown that the rifle was lightweight and easy to use. Some of the shots were at children who were asleep, from close or point blank range. Some of the shots to adults may have been point blank range. The defence now seem to be alleging they 30 shots were fired.

There is no evidence to back up the first sentence. The latest assessment made reference to previous assessments. All with same conclusion.

Lightweight and easy to use for a schizophrenic in a highly agitated state who has never been seen with a gun in her hand ever according to her brother? The bees wax claim is categoric - the bullets were coated with bees wax and Sheila had none on her hands. No grey areas here. Unless of course she got rid of the bees wax by cleaning her hands during the ritual where she became all calm at the end.

 

[Roker Skate]

Lightweight and easy to use for a schizophrenic in a highly agitated state who has never been seen with a gun in her hand ever according to her brother? The bees wax claim is categoric - the bullets were coated with bees wax and Sheila had none on her hands. No grey areas here. Unless of course she got rid of the bees wax by cleaning her hands during the ritual where she became all calm at the end.

I'll try and find you a graph of what was in her hands.

 

[rentaghost]

I'll try and find you a graph of what was in her hands.

If there wasn’t bees wax she didn’t reload that gun

 

[Roker Skate]

If there wasn’t bees wax she didn’t reload that gun

Who do you think put the case file and evidence together, to prosecute Bamber? And what was in original case file regarding his sister? Maybe the beeswax didn't get transferred over from one file to the other?

Just wanted to chip on with a comment that really enjoying this thread and pleased to see it hasn't descended in to the usual name calling and bickering - and I hope it doesn't.

My question - has Bamber ever been diagnosed with anything that may explain his actions?

Professor V Egan mentions Bamber's previous assessments when discussing his own assessment here:

Psychological Reports

Information on this web site was first uploaded to the internet in December 2011. Psychological Reports Popular belief has always been that Jeremy Bamber has psychopathy. In truth Jeremy Bamber ha…

jeremybamber.org

Greedy bastarditas and probably a sociopath. My monies on him not Sheila.

His relatives who help frame him were extremely greedy:

 

[South Banker Wolf]

Who do you think put the case file and evidence together, to prosecute Bamber? And what was in original case file regarding his sister? Maybe the beeswax didn't get transferred over from one file to the other?

Professor V Egan mentions Bamber's previous assessments when discussing his own assessment here:

Psychological Reports

Information on this web site was first uploaded to the internet in December 2011. Psychological Reports Popular belief has always been that Jeremy Bamber has psychopathy. In truth Jeremy Bamber ha…

jeremybamber.org

His relatives who help frame him were extremely greedy:

Maybe so but if you are thinking this is a miscarriage of justice then I totally disagree. His spending sprees and partying after the murders suggest otherwise. It’s amazing what greed does to people but he homed into his sisters mental health problems. He’s a wrong um
in my opinion.

 

[Roker Skate]

Author Carol Anne Lee who interviewed Bamber reveals in her book that from the outset of his arrest he refused to allow police access to his medical records pre-trial and did not want to be assessed, while a psychiatrist engaged by his defence declared that he displayed several classic psychopathic symptoms. Chief among these symptoms was his genuine belief in his own innocence. ‘The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real’.

Jeremy Bamber : the White House Farm murders

The psychiatrist believed that Jeremy did kill his family but had suppressed the memory until it was no longer real

www.crimeandinvestigation.co.uk

He has professed his innocence ever since. However, the psychiatrist engaged by Bamber’s defence team said that his very real belief that he had not committed the murders was a prime reason for diagnosing him as a psychopath.

Concluding that he did kill his family and had suppressed the knowledge until it no longer existed, he added: ‘If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber.’

“If ever there was a psychopath, it’s Jeremy Bamber” – Interlitq blog

Where is the evidence regarding this first alleged assessment? First of all, Rivlin, who defended Bamber, had never taken on a defence case before. He was a prosecution barrister. Jeremy has described him as a second prosecutor as opposed to his defence Barrister. He did an awful job of defending Bamber and to this day, it still has an impact on the case - because there are things he could and should have done when executing his duties as a defence barrister, that he simply didn't do. And now because of that, we hear 'well the defence had a chance to bring that trial but didn't.. that's hardly the fault of the prosecution' etc.

Think about the reasoning being used here. It's laughable and embarrassing. An innocent man would also have no recollection of the crime. An innocent man who had an awareness he was being wrongly prosecuted or framed might also refuse access to his medical records. People refuse access to their medical records all the time. I tell you whose medical records are not allowed to be released - Sheila Caffell's records. Should we use he reasoning that she must be responsible for the killings because the authorities won't release her medical records to the defence, just like Jeremy apparently refused access to his?

Maybe so but if you are thinking this is a miscarriage of justice then I totally disagree. His spending sprees and partying after the murders suggest otherwise. It’s amazing what greed does to people but he homed into his sisters mental health problems. He’s a wrong um
in my opinion.

I have no problem with you disagreeing but check this out...

Maybe so but if you are thinking this is a miscarriage of justice then I totally disagree. His spending sprees and partying after the murders suggest otherwise. It’s amazing what greed does to people but he homed into his sisters mental health problems. He’s a wrong um
in my opinion.

Upon being told his family were dead, his immediate response was to blame the armed police who had entered the farmhouse. You won't see that in any drama or docu. If he was trying to frame his sister, why didn't he blame her?

 

[rentaghost]

Where is the evidence regarding this first alleged assessment? First of all, Rivlin, who defended Bamber, had never taken on a defence case before. He was a prosecution barrister. Jeremy has described him as a second prosecutor as opposed to his defence Barrister. He did an awful job of defending Bamber and to this day, it still has an impact on the case - because there are things he could and should have done when executing his duties as a defence barrister, that he simply didn't do. And now because of that, we hear 'well the defence had a chance to bring that trial but didn't.. that's hardly the fault of the prosecution' etc.

Think about the reasoning being used here. It's laughable and embarrassing. An innocent man would also have no recollection of the crime. An innocent man who had an awareness he was being wrongly prosecuted or framed might also refuse access to his medical records. People refuse access to their medical records all the time. I tell you whose medical records are not allowed to be released - Sheila Caffell's records. Should we use he reasoning that she must be responsible for the killings because the authorities won't release her medical records to the defence, just like Jeremy apparently refused access to his?

I have no problem with you disagreeing but check this out...

Upon being told his family were dead, his immediate response was to blame the armed police who had entered the farmhouse. You won't see that in any drama or docu. If he was trying to frame his sister, why didn't he blame her?

If there was a second prosecutor at that trial it was Jeremy himself daring the defence team to prove it. Acting like an arrogant prick just as he had done in the aftermath of his family being slaughtered.