J&J Vaccine restricted by FDA

chrismisterx said:
all vaccines have some issues but vaccines save lives,

its simple really, the risk to reward shows more risk to not have a vaccine.
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The problem here is the ostracisation and pressure on people to get it. One can not make a personal choice in a world where governments and employers mandate it.

Then you've got the likes of Johnson and Javid imploring you to get it as well as Gove calling you selfish if you do not. The rhetoric and narrative is damning.

Whilst what you say is true in regards to issues the narrative has changed over the life of the pandemic and whilst politicians aren't painting negative pictures they've certainly moved away from the overwhelmingly positive, as if distancing themselves.

I feel sorry for all to people I know who've taken the J&J jab in my line of work, in order to maintain their employment, only for countries like Egypt to have immediately taken the J&J jab off their lists not allowing to sign off and transit the country.

I don't even know where I actually stand on employers mandating it. I mean those who suggested the J&J one due to the convenience of the one shot must be sitting their with egg on their face. I mean it's probably better for employers to perhaps encourage it rather than outright recommend certain manufacturers, but then again I don't think they should be getting involved.

As I'm on one, a friend of mine is unable to be vaccinated and he lost his job on a cruise ship as it required all staff to be vaccinated, whilst passengers do not. I will never understand the logic.
 
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Hugh Gains said:
The problem here is the ostracisation and pressure on people to get it. One can not make a personal choice in a world where governments and employers mandate it.

Then you've got the likes of Johnson and Javid imploring you to get it as well as Gove calling you selfish if you do not. The rhetoric and narrative is damning.

Whilst what you say is true in regards to issues the narrative has changed over the life of the pandemic and whilst politicians aren't painting negative pictures they've certainly moved away from the overwhelmingly positive, as if distancing themselves.

I feel sorry for all to people I know who've taken the J&J jab in my line of work, in order to maintain their employment, only for countries like Egypt to have immediately taken the J&J jab off their lists not allowing to sign off and transit the country.

I don't even know where I actually stand on employers mandating it. I mean those who suggested the J&J one due to the convenience of the one shot must be sitting their with egg on their face. I mean it's probably better for employers to perhaps encourage it rather than outright recommend certain manufacturers, but then again I don't think they should be getting involved.

As I'm on one, a friend of mine is unable to be vaccinated and he lost his job on a cruise ship as it required all staff to be vaccinated, whilst passengers do not. I will never understand the logic.
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Fact is all throughout history populations have been forced one way or another to follow rules for the good of the country, no matter the personal view point.

For example I wonder how many men of fighting age have not wanted to go to war, but due to rules and pressure from peers where forced to, people who maybe took a personal choice to not fight were shunned, sent white feathers and disowned by family members.

I am all for personal choice, but what about other peoples personal choice also?

For example no one in this country should be dragged to a clinic and jabbed and no one was, but it also the right of business owners to decide who should work for them, if they decided due to the rules in other countries, the staff should be jabbed, then you as a member of staff still have a personal choice, to get a jab your not keen on or to refuse knowing your likely to have to find another job, people who were forced to fight in the past were given zero choice.

My wife was very high risk to have a life threatening reaction to the jab, was told she could be exempt, but decided to go ahead anyway, she had less of a reaction than I did, we both had AZ.

People complain about vaccines, what about the food or drink they eat, how many are checking up on what's going in their bodies, I have seen anti vaccine people, smoking, yes smoking I mean come on, add that to a SAD diet and a few drinks and now you have the quickest way to cause life threatening issues. Its as if its not the vaccine that is making them angry but just looking for a way to be angry, if it wasn't the vaccine, likely the darn immigrants ( could of the more vocal anti vaccine people are the same in anti immigrants movements ) kind of campaigning for the sake of it. )

We could happily sit here and debate every single medic treatment that has had a nasty side effect and causes stuff ranging up to death, its the nature of the beast I am afraid, lots of talk about clots, but young girls are advised to take measures to not get pregnant, lots of ladies choose the pill, which was terrible for causing clots, much worse than the vaccines, but over the years it has improved and become safer, still more chance to get a clot from the pill mind.

You talk about positive PR, a fair point the narrative has changed, hindsight is a wonderful thing and with it we could avoid many issues in the past that have harmed the population, for example couple off the top of my head, thalidomide for morning sickness and Radium products ( just look at the Radium girls and their story ) both had terrible effects and brought in new laws and processes to protect the population, so go back to the first new stories when we saw Italy and the terrible out come for the older people there or New York with bodies pilling up, no wonder there was a push to get a working vaccine, would you have been happy with a 2 year plus lockdown with only key workers leaving the house, I dont think anyone would put up with that, so the only option was a vaccine.

If you read the trials you can seen it was well studied, there was always known risks, its no surprise that more are coming to light but that was the balance of being able to deploy it so fast, if we didn't do that the death total would be 10 times higher, just look at other pandemics and how it would have brought medical services to its knees, Also lockdowns is now being shown by the WHO and UNICEF to have caused many indirect deaths due to poor people not able to have access to things like fresh water or food.

So when the choice is world wide chaos and possible collapse of the worlds medical services, mass death and panic or lockdown with again mass collapse of the worlds economics causing the poorer in the world to suffer the most and send us into a world wide melt down that would have made 2008 look like a little hic up or a vaccine which would have some issues for some but would be the lesser of the 3 evils, it points to me, the vaccine had the best risk to reward outcome.

Now look at low vaccine countries and see how B4 /B5 is causing them some issues as natural protection from Delta isnt cutting it and the people best protected atm is a combo of Omicron and Vaccine, we may just see moving forward as other countries struggle that the UK maybe choose wisely after all.

Also one little thing with regards risk, 28 people per million will die this year from car accidents in the UK, many people have no choice but to drive for work, but every time you get in the car you are putting yourself at risk, every single time its a roll of a dice that you could be killed. Wonder what the odds are when you take the amount of times you use the car, bet its more likely to cause death or serious injury compared to the vaccine, funny how some risks are fine and others are not.
 
Sir Lancelot said:
When your daughter requires a kidney transplant because of a covid vaccination it kind of focuses your mind on the exceptions to the rules.
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So my history with blood clots in the heart and my refusal to go for the AZ vaccine makes sense to you now as well, I guess. It wasn't politically motivated afterall then. Glad we finally got that cleared up.
 
alexander said:
So my history with blood clots in the heart and my refusal to go for the AZ vaccine makes sense to you now as well, I guess. It wasn't politically motivated afterall then. Glad we finally got that cleared up.
Click to expand...

At one point during the pandemic there seemed to be an ostrich head in the sand or patriotic rule Britannia attitude to AZ.

you were bang on in what you did.
 
alexander said:
So my history with blood clots in the heart and my refusal to go for the AZ vaccine makes sense to you now as well, I guess. It wasn't politically motivated afterall then. Glad we finally got that cleared up.
Click to expand...

I don’t believe that I have ever commented on your decision or your medical history. Feel free to trawl through my posts if you think that I have.
 
chrismisterx said:
Fact is all throughout history populations have been forced one way or another to follow rules for the good of the country, no matter the personal view point.

For example I wonder how many men of fighting age have not wanted to go to war, but due to rules and pressure from peers where forced to, people who maybe took a personal choice to not fight were shunned, sent white feathers and disowned by family members.

I am all for personal choice, but what about other peoples personal choice also?

For example no one in this country should be dragged to a clinic and jabbed and no one was, but it also the right of business owners to decide who should work for them, if they decided due to the rules in other countries, the staff should be jabbed, then you as a member of staff still have a personal choice, to get a jab your not keen on or to refuse knowing your likely to have to find another job, people who were forced to fight in the past were given zero choice.

My wife was very high risk to have a life threatening reaction to the jab, was told she could be exempt, but decided to go ahead anyway, she had less of a reaction than I did, we both had AZ.

People complain about vaccines, what about the food or drink they eat, how many are checking up on what's going in their bodies, I have seen anti vaccine people, smoking, yes smoking I mean come on, add that to a SAD diet and a few drinks and now you have the quickest way to cause life threatening issues. Its as if its not the vaccine that is making them angry but just looking for a way to be angry, if it wasn't the vaccine, likely the darn immigrants ( could of the more vocal anti vaccine people are the same in anti immigrants movements ) kind of campaigning for the sake of it. )

We could happily sit here and debate every single medic treatment that has had a nasty side effect and causes stuff ranging up to death, its the nature of the beast I am afraid, lots of talk about clots, but young girls are advised to take measures to not get pregnant, lots of ladies choose the pill, which was terrible for causing clots, much worse than the vaccines, but over the years it has improved and become safer, still more chance to get a clot from the pill mind.

You talk about positive PR, a fair point the narrative has changed, hindsight is a wonderful thing and with it we could avoid many issues in the past that have harmed the population, for example couple off the top of my head, thalidomide for morning sickness and Radium products ( just look at the Radium girls and their story ) both had terrible effects and brought in new laws and processes to protect the population, so go back to the first new stories when we saw Italy and the terrible out come for the older people there or New York with bodies pilling up, no wonder there was a push to get a working vaccine, would you have been happy with a 2 year plus lockdown with only key workers leaving the house, I dont think anyone would put up with that, so the only option was a vaccine.

If you read the trials you can seen it was well studied, there was always known risks, its no surprise that more are coming to light but that was the balance of being able to deploy it so fast, if we didn't do that the death total would be 10 times higher, just look at other pandemics and how it would have brought medical services to its knees, Also lockdowns is now being shown by the WHO and UNICEF to have caused many indirect deaths due to poor people not able to have access to things like fresh water or food.

So when the choice is world wide chaos and possible collapse of the worlds medical services, mass death and panic or lockdown with again mass collapse of the worlds economics causing the poorer in the world to suffer the most and send us into a world wide melt down that would have made 2008 look like a little hic up or a vaccine which would have some issues for some but would be the lesser of the 3 evils, it points to me, the vaccine had the best risk to reward outcome.

Now look at low vaccine countries and see how B4 /B5 is causing them some issues as natural protection from Delta isnt cutting it and the people best protected atm is a combo of Omicron and Vaccine, we may just see moving forward as other countries struggle that the UK maybe choose wisely after all.

Also one little thing with regards risk, 28 people per million will die this year from car accidents in the UK, many people have no choice but to drive for work, but every time you get in the car you are putting yourself at risk, every single time its a roll of a dice that you could be killed. Wonder what the odds are when you take the amount of times you use the car, bet its more likely to cause death or serious injury compared to the vaccine, funny how some risks are fine and others are not.
Click to expand...

Not quite sure how we are comparing enlistment/conscription to vaccine mandates, I mean sure, I see how you got there but neither were/are right and just because the former happened doesn't make the latter palpable or acceptable.

Furthermore the narrative is changing because even in your post you state 'the known risks' but anyone who broadcasted stuff like this early doors was ostracised and ridiculed. Whilst you state that these were known, reported and publicised the 'benefits' were grossly over exaggerated, i mean look at the quote in the following post from 2021 'Regev-Yohai also added that people who received both doses of the vaccine will most likely not become carriers of the virus and will not spread it further due to the high level of antibodies.'

The vaccine thread

Thought I'd start a new thread to try and have all news on vaccine in one place. Found this news about Pfizer vaccine in Israel https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd
www.readytogo.net www.readytogo.net

Also any employer who is requiring vaccination whilst operating in the UK for me must be sitting there with egg on their face. Many a company brought in such policies alongside the NHS but the NHS one fell through due to pressure and negative press, meanwhile they haven't backed down. Sure they have the right to, but let's let pretend that it's not overly protective, unnecessary and ultimately draconian and to be pushing ahead or persisting with it in the current landscape, laughable.

And the words this week from the COVID arbiter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522380811282038784

Sure hindsight is a wonderful thing but the arbiter has stated info was known as of 2020 and yet we proceeded down a path of covid elimination focused on a relentless vaccine campaign across all age groups, lockdowns and excessive covid rules. We'd have come out of this better with less restrictions and a more focused vaccine rollout and it isn't up for debate.
 
Sir Lancelot said:
I don’t believe that I have ever commented on your decision or your medical history. Feel free to trawl through my posts if you think that I have.
Click to expand...

All anyone has to do is look at your idiotic, trolling posts on the AZ fred from last Spring. You clearly commented when you told me to 'just admit that you are politically motivated to refuse the AZ'. Other posters also told you how wrong you were.

Goodbye.

FootballFan said:
At one point during the pandemic there seemed to be an ostrich head in the sand or patriotic rule Britannia attitude to AZ.

you were bang on in what you did.
Click to expand...

Thank you.
 
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Hugh Gains said:
Not quite sure how we are comparing enlistment/conscription to vaccine mandates, I mean sure, I see how you got there but neither were/are right and just because the former happened doesn't make the latter palpable or acceptable.

Furthermore the narrative is changing because even in your post you state 'the known risks' but anyone who broadcasted stuff like this early doors was ostracised and ridiculed. Whilst you state that these were known, reported and publicised the 'benefits' were grossly over exaggerated, i mean look at the quote in the following post from 2021 'Regev-Yohai also added that people who received both doses of the vaccine will most likely not become carriers of the virus and will not spread it further due to the high level of antibodies.'

The vaccine thread

Thought I'd start a new thread to try and have all news on vaccine in one place. Found this news about Pfizer vaccine in Israel https://www.ynetnews.com/health_science/article/H1jaK7mkd
www.readytogo.net www.readytogo.net

Also any employer who is requiring vaccination whilst operating in the UK for me must be sitting there with egg on their face. Many a company brought in such policies alongside the NHS but the NHS one fell through due to pressure and negative press, meanwhile they haven't backed down. Sure they have the right to, but let's let pretend that it's not overly protective, unnecessary and ultimately draconian and to be pushing ahead or persisting with it in the current landscape, laughable.

And the words this week from the COVID arbiter.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1522380811282038784

Sure hindsight is a wonderful thing but the arbiter has stated info was known as of 2020 and yet we proceeded down a path of covid elimination focused on a relentless vaccine campaign across all age groups, lockdowns and excessive covid rules. We'd have come out of this better with less restrictions and a more focused vaccine rollout and it isn't up for debate.
Click to expand...
point I was making is Governments have to make calls which sometimes isnt popular with the general public and with hindsight after the fact can look very different to when taken in the heat of the moment.

I was very vocal early doors about the risks and really vocal about children being given the vaccine as for me the risk to reward wasn't clear cut early days for the younger population and we had some questions that needed answers. Its why I read a lot of the early data, some of it I understood better than the rest, but I wanted to make an informed choice for when my time for a vaccine came, I decided the vaccine was the better bet for a host of reasons. I remember quite the heated debate about some of the newest risks, I was told I was an anti vaccine person because I had questions, it is true the vaccine didn't do what they thought 100%, but in the context of a world wide pandemic killing millions, it was always going to be a judgement call for the world leaders.

If you followed the trials and the real data ( not Facebook, twitter and MP's and such like ) the wording was very different, with "may" "could" and such like, just because some jumped the gun isnt the fault of the vaccines, I also think the AZ clot thing was 100% politics, as its no were near as bad as was made out, where is the outcry about the pill?

We had doomsday predictions about the vaccines as well with the anti vaccine lot saying assorts would happen if we have a mass roll out, that also has not happened.

Also facts dont lie, look at death rates before vaccine roll out to after and we see a massive shift, the vaccine saved lives or do you think we would have ended up with the same level of deaths vaccine or not?

Also you have to be honest and try and stay balanced, I have no doubt some people died taking the vaccine who would have likely lived if they didn't, I also understand lockdown killed people, but in the context of the worldwide pandemic the like we have not seen since 1917-1919, did lockdown save more lives' than it took and did the vaccine save more lives than it took?

We are 100% free in this country to not take the vaccine thats true, thats a fact, no one is forcing you, if the choice means you cant travel aboard or do some jobs, thats by the by, we have a choice.
Hugh Gains said:
Sure hindsight is a wonderful thing but the arbiter has stated info was known as of 2020 and yet we proceeded down a path of covid elimination focused on a relentless vaccine campaign across all age groups, lockdowns and excessive covid rules. We'd have come out of this better with less restrictions and a more focused vaccine rollout and it isn't up for debate.
Click to expand...
How do you know if we would have come out of this better when the studies looking at this and the damage done is still on going, what's to say with the virus jumping to b4 /B5 we wouldn't end up with 25 plus million dead, as that attacks the younger population more?

look at the countries at this very moment who have low vaccine rates and you see a spike due to this new variant, it shifted from killing the old to attacking the young, we have seen this very same effect before in a pandemic before vaccines:-

little bit of history dumbed down for quickness ( a google will give you all the info you need )

1915 a heavy flu year killing the normal oldies, lasted the normal flu season, it stayed in the public domain and came back 1917 with another heavy winter, then it changed, it went from killing the old and infirm to attacking the young and heathy and by the summer of 1918 it was a massive problem, the fact was the healthier the person, the more at risk to death due to an over active immune system, it ripped though the world even though travel wasn't like today and killed countless millions, until it died down again by 1919.

Covid has followed the same tract, a deadly virus to the old and infirm which has been changing towards a virus that attacks younger and younger people, big difference is we have vaccines and by the time the virus shifted we had a population that had large uptakes in vaccines, this is why we haven't seen millions dead in this country, if left unchecked it would have been something else.
 
alexander said:
All anyone has to do is look at your idiotic, trolling posts on the AZ fred from last Spring. You clearly commented when you told me to 'just admit that you are politically motivated to refuse the AZ'. Other posters also told you how wrong you were.

Goodbye.



Thank you.
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Liar. There is no such thread as you have mentioned and no such comments. You have confused me with another poster and should have the grace to apologise for your comments.
 
Cockney Mackem said:
Looks like Hyacinth has me on ignore
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Might be the other way round sunshine as I posted in response to you.
Oh, it’s that boring Hyacinth bloke again. One trick pony.

For the record I’ve just reviewed the relevant thread now that it has the correct title. The thread is about the politics of the EU refusing to use the AZ vaccine and speculation on whether it was politically motivated rather than about health.
Alexander was whining on about whether to have or not have the vaccine, and which vaccine he should have.
Out of 853 posts on a 43 page thread I posted 8 times. Only three of those posts, possibly four were to Alexander. At least two were questions about statements that he had made. None of them were abusive. He needs to take back his lie that I trolled him in that thread. He just took the huff because a few people pulled him up on his nonsense and he is attributing it to me. Sadly, in this case i can’t take the credit for the trolling.
If anyone is a troll then Cockney Mackem is more suited to that crown. I don’t understand why he is so intimidated by me. Maybe adult women scare him?
 
Sir Lancelot said:
Might be the other way round sunshine as I posted in response to you.
Oh, it’s that boring Hyacinth bloke again. One trick pony.

For the record I’ve just reviewed the relevant thread now that it has the correct title. The thread is about the politics of the EU refusing to use the AZ vaccine and speculation on whether it was politically motivated rather than about health.
Alexander was whining on about whether to have or not have the vaccine, and which vaccine he should have.
Out of 853 posts on a 43 page thread I posted 8 times. Only three of those posts, possibly four were to Alexander. At least two were questions about statements that he had made. None of them were abusive. He needs to take back his lie that I trolled him in that thread. He just took the huff because a few people pulled him up on his nonsense and he is attributing it to me. Sadly, in this case i can’t take the credit for the trolling.
If anyone is a troll then Cockney Mackem is more suited to that crown. I don’t understand why he is so intimidated by me. Maybe adult women scare him?
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Thanks Hyacinth
 
Imagine ignoring plain, proven fact and still claiming never to have made a comment on my refusion to take the AZ vaccine. That is exactly what trolls do. Point proven.

@mux you will love this. :lol:
 
Cockney Mackem said:
Post in thread 'Astra Zeneca' Astra Zeneca
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Oooooof :lol:
alexander said:
Imagine ignoring plain, proven fact and still claiming never to have made a comment on my refusion to take the AZ vaccine. That is exactly what trolls do. Point proven.

@mux you will love this. :lol:
Click to expand...
We have had a couple of our female posters talk bollocks then bare faced lie about it recently mind haven't we.
 

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