If you have kids of school age

Discussion in 'SMB' started by The Muffin Man, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. 10 Gary Rowells

    10 Gary Rowells Striker

    I agree with much of what you say but its not as simple as to say they are under funded. Firstly I would say the school's I know about (my wife's school, my kids school, another school I am involved with) are better than they ever have been in terms of the education the kids get. Funding is becoming a real issue but hasn't bitten yet as you describe. One of the big problem is that all schools get different amounts per pupil. One school in the borough that my kids have gone to get more than £1k per pupil more than my kids school. Also, the average the Newcastle school's get per pupil is higher than the average that South Tyneside school's get which, in turn, is higher than the average that Sunderland schools get. So, if your kids go to a Newcastle school the funding is not nearly such a problem. Interesting that the school that is shutting in South Tyneside due to its failure, South Shields School gets the most funding and is not an Academy.

    Additionally despite the poor funding the education the kids are getting is better with each year - the measures of Maths and English are getting better and better. The education my kids have received is light years ahead of what I got in the '70's and '80's. That said, my view, as a school governor, is that the funding problem in schools could be about to blow. So, I disagree with the doom and gloom you describe because my experience is that that is not the reality. However, unless addressed I think the scenarios you describe could develop if the funding problem is not addressed.
  2. One of south east Cornwall academy groups hand back their contract earlier this year on the basis that they weren’t making enough profit.
    All of our essential services should belong to us as shareholders and not some hedge fund
    The Muffin Man likes this.

    JAZZMANB Striker

    My son is in the "upper set" at monky house ,the school i was in 30 plus years ago and i've been imporessed with both the teachers and the pupils.According to popular myths schools are full of unruly kids and hopeless teachers
  4. yorkyexile

    yorkyexile Striker

    As mq10 said last night it was just shite bait from me, but i still stand by what i say about mixed ability/attitude classes. Sorry but there are some kids who don`t want to learn more classical subjects - english maths etc, some that do and some that could if no distractions and i think the idea of a one size fits all approach lets everyone down badly. Me mam was a teacher and despite all the jokes about long holidays etc i`ve seen exactly what goes into it offstage as it were, trying to plan lessons round curriculums that will try and include everyone and all abilities and it`s a losing battle from the off
  5. 10 Gary Rowells

    10 Gary Rowells Striker

    Incorrect - Academies are 'not for profit' by law. They do not have shareholders. The main difference is that they do their own accounts whereas LA schools have their accounts done by the local authority. There really is a lot of rubbish talked about academies. The lack of funding affects academies and LA schools equally.

    Exactly the same with me - the standard of education my kids have got has been outstanding and I believe the same where my wife teaches. When I went to school I was let down by education, it was utter rubbish. This rarely happens now. Obviously documentary makers can find schools to fit any argument but generally state education has improved massively, even in the last 10 years - hence the reason why private schools are shutting down - why pay when you can get great education for free.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
  6. yorkyexile

    yorkyexile Striker

    tell that to wakefield council who have had to pick the tab up from City academies trust going tits up not through funding but plain old mismanagement and pilfering basically
    Collapsing academy trust ‘asset-stripped its schools of millions’
    cornish mackem likes this.
  7. 10 Gary Rowells

    10 Gary Rowells Striker

    Yes, there will be some terrible examples but they are 'not for profit' - that is fact. In South Tyneside the school that is shutting down is not an Academy - it is a local authority run school - South Shields School - they spent £20M building a few years ago and now no one wants to send their kids there as it is so poor. It is a disgrace and is an utter waste of tax payers money. This is not an argument that local authority run schools are worse but that if you want to construct an argument you can find examples to fit that argument.

    As always I base my views on what I see - I have direct knowledge of 3 state secondary schools - as governor and as the husband of a teacher - all 3 are outstanding schools, all 3 are academies and all 3 have improved as academies. This doesn't prove one thing or the other but overall education is improving nationally and that is while most schools have converted. Regarding the OP I believe the funding problems are real and, if not addressed, will cause major problems to the education system over the next few years. The issue of whether the schools are academies or not is not the issue here.
  8. rickopooly

    rickopooly Winger

    Sorry kidda, your irony meter must be malfunctioning
  9. Good to see the opinions of someone in the industry rather than the rantings of a mad man ;)
  10. Hep

    Hep Winger

    yet I saw an advert for a Head of Pastoral Care @ £75k a few months - no wonder they've got no money left.
  11. If you can't see that pastoral care is essential in large secondary schools, then you're seriously missing something.
  12. bowers2

    bowers2 Winger

    I worked in a school for four years here is my take of the problems.

    Long standing teachers who have seen better days twist about change.
    Some of these leave and the school is propped up with NQTs. Some of these are run ragged and are ill equipped.

    The rise in TAs who are actually doing a teachers job on shot money.

    The budget cuts are crippling areas of the school who look for other funding streams to prop up the system.

    However the biggest problem I see is the children and parents.
    The amount that trudge into the school to complain about discipline imposed on their precious kids is staggering.
    When I was a lad I was scared of my parents finding out I was a twat never mind the teachers.

    On one acassion i was in the Officer gets a call from reception. “Police are here to see you”.
    I thought this was strange although I worked in conjunction with them.
    Goes down to find a parent has made a complaint that I had stolen a mobile phone from her child.
    The policy was they were removed and placed in a safe until the parent came in to get it back off the head teacher if they used it in lessons.

    The police were really apologetic and the parent never came in.

    This is the problem I see. Some parents are not fit to parent.
    The Muffin Man and SAFC2403 like this.

    JAZZMANB Striker

    Only way you'll win that one is one to one teaching and it won't happen of course.My son has took his "options" a year early and you have the sets and extra help groups as well so they are dividing depending on choices then dividing on learning ability then have a safety net .Then you could ask how much of the end product you take into the big world anyway
    yorkyexile likes this.
  14. salad dodger

    salad dodger Midfield

    Certainly is a large part of the problem, seen/heard some stupid stuff over the past couple of years on the school run. Heard some whinging because the school sent a letter reminding parents to read with the child and sign in a book to confirm. As valuable as a school is to a childs development, disinterested parenting is going to hold it back significantly imo.
    The Muffin Man and bowers2 like this.
  15. Hep

    Hep Winger

    I absolutely can - does it warrant a £75k salary?

    The discipline needs to be sensible, our lads school is wound far too tight, especially on uniform. Tie done up tight, dress shoes and dark coats, it's just not practical when they play footy at breaktime, nor safe when they walk home in the dark nights, nor conducive to good learning as it's very uncomfortable. The school say it's preparing them for work but if they take a moment to check most businesses are moving the other way and there are lots of places where everyone dresses casually everyday. Rules for rules sake doesn't wash anymore.

    Academies set their own salaries, that is open to abuse.

    I'd love to know where all the Billions of tax is going, it's not on welfare. My guess is propping up pensions for those who paid in £1.87 and now want 50% of their final salary.

    I agree, it's need completely modernising.

    I can't believe the every teacher has to create every lesson plan from scratch and that their isn't a better way to share collateral.

    Same for marking, the days of the pile of paper books and red pens is surely ripe for something better.

    AI based interactive learning systems for each child is the way forward.

    Aye the days when I was at school and got beaten black and blue are just what we need eh? State-wide child abuse is not an answer.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2018
    yorkyexile and bowers2 like this.
  16. 10 Gary Rowells

    10 Gary Rowells Striker

    Don't disagree. I was responding to a poster who was saying an Academy group had gone back to local authority control because it made insufficient profit. This is incorrect as Academies are not for profit and don't make profits. Yes, salaries can be high but the have a trust board which still often have parents on and so any salary has to be approved. There is good and bad in Academies but I don't think people can dispute that the quality education our kids receive is getting better and better - this may be due to OFSTED or sometimes well run Academies. The problem, from what I see, is two fold - the problems with the funding system means some schools are getting overly stretched and soon this may affect the quality of the teaching and secondly there is too much stress in the system - the kids are taught failure is not an option and the teachers have too much work.
  17. Hep

    Hep Winger

    It needs a different approach, having an adult stand in front of 30 kids is not going to work forever. I know kids are different but at work we rarely send people on classroom training courses anymore, the online stuff is just too good. If we could get online stuff designed specifically for kids that adapts to each child and has a massive catalogue of lessons it could be used nationally, leaving the teachers to help with what isn't included instead of re-inventing the wheel every week.
  18. 10 Gary Rowells

    10 Gary Rowells Striker

    Looking at my kids - its working - they are adopting loads using online stuff. My son is studying for GCSE - so much of the revision is online video resource. The problem is all we ever want to do is criticise and say 'it has to change'. One thing that is working in the UK is state education - hence private schools closing, hence the improvements in the International measure of our Maths and English. It doesn't need a different approach at all - it juts needs additional resource in funding (although not all schools - some are resourced fine, some are not getting nearly enough) and more recognition for what a great job they are doing.
    The Muffin Man likes this.
  19. Hep

    Hep Winger

    Good points, but I'm not seeing anywhere near enough of what is possible. There are pockets and it is changing, but it does need to change further to remove the repetitive work from teachers so they can teach.

    This is that different approach. Especially if the online learning can adapt beyond just videos and tailor itself for childrens abilities.
    10 Gary Rowells likes this.
  20. Hull_Mackem

    Hull_Mackem Winger

    To answer where you qutoed me - a large proportion does go on welfare. Also pensions and NHS are biggies. You get an annual statement telling you what tax is spent on. From memory about 38% is spent on welfare, but I could be wrong as doing that from memory.

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