If we go up this season we should be aiming for top 6 in championship next season


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IF we get there I'd be looking to get into the top 6 as well, otherwise why bother, it's got to be worth a go. Everyone on here saying lets consolidate mid table, remember our fans are as fickle as they come I can just imagine us plodding along in 10th - 14th place going down great.
 
People need to get real here. This is Sunderland, we need to get out of this league first, there's a lot of hard graft to do before that happens.
 
Difficult one this. Firstly, we need promotion, and whilst planning for the future is fine, the long term doesn't mean much if we can't sort out our short term problems.

Secondly, other than the teams near the top, the Championship is a pretty crap standard. Yes it's a step up from the fairly abysmal league one, but there are very few genuinely good sides. Some people are over egging the standard of the league somewhat.

Thirdly, it's the off-field stuff we need to get right to be able to build a successful club once more. If we lay the correct foundations, there's no reason we can't have a successful Championship campaign if we were to go up. We failed last time in that league due to being a basket case of a club more than anything else. It wasn't necessarily an ability problem.
You cannot instantly buy your way into the top. It would be crazy to even try.
I would personally go for the Brentford model. Healthy business and well considered investments all the way.

What about our academy?
Agree. It's massively over rated on here. Top 6-8 teams are strong, outside of that, meh.

Indeed. It's an exciting league because it's quite unpredictable, but a good standard it is not.
 
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People go on about the championship now as if it’s this fantastic league where you have to spend hundreds of millions to get out of it but look at Barnsley winning every week now. If they can do it no reason why we can’t if we try and get 5/6 good players in . Maybe 2/3 premiership loans and 2/3 permanent signings
Will need a decent goalkeeper right back, left back, two centre halves two central midfielders a wide man and at least one centre forward they wouldn't be squad players either.
 
Well that's fair enough.

I've seen mention of five year plans etc - five years is too long in football. That's time to build two squads, including a contract renewal period.

The way I see it, the squad will need to be overhauled this summer. If as we hope that's in preparation for a Championship season then why only prepare for a relegation fight/consolidation? It's nuts. The recruitment drive has to be that we're the best club in the division. Come to Sunderland because we're going places.
Aye five managers is a worrying sign for them, although if what the fans I know have been saying is true and they are going for the DoF approach, maybe whoever is head coach or manager doesn't matter too much as long as they can coach the system.

Yeah mate I agree, complete overhaul in summer, no matter what league we are in. But if we are in the championship there's no reason to not be trying to compete for the top spots. I just wouldn't be overly concerned if it took a season or two as long as we are making progress.
 
Will need a decent goalkeeper right back, left back, two centre halves two central midfielders a wide man and at least one centre forward they wouldn't be squad players either.

We wouldn't. We'd need at least three top end quality Championship players in the right areas, and we'd be on the right path.

You're only as good/bad as your best three players.
 
Aye five managers is a worrying sign for them, although if what the fans I know have been saying is true and they are going for the DoF approach, maybe whoever is head coach or manager doesn't matter too much as long as they can coach the system.

Yeah mate I agree, complete overhaul in summer, no matter what league we are in. But if we are in the championship there's no reason to not be trying to compete for the top spots. I just wouldn't be overly concerned if it took a season or two as long as we are making progress.
There's no shame in aiming high and falling short.
We wouldn't. We'd need at least three top end quality Championship players in the right areas, and we'd be on the right path.

You're only as good/bad as your best three players.
Over a 46 game season?
 
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People go on about the championship now as if it’s this fantastic league where you have to spend hundreds of millions to get out of it but look at Barnsley winning every week now. If they can do it no reason why we can’t if we try and get 5/6 good players in . Maybe 2/3 premiership loans and 2/3 permanent signings
If we go up next season we should be aiming for top 6 in the premier the year after. People go on about the Premiership now as if it’s this fantastic league where you have to spend hundreds of millions to get out of it but look at West Ham winning every week now and that's with Moyes. If they can do it no reason why we can’t if we try and get 5/6 good players in.
 
I've read some absolute horse shite with regards to how Sunderland should move forward, but be like fuckin' Brentford has to be up there with one of the most ridiculous suggestions ever.

It's a really lazy comparison. Brentford do things their own way and it works for them. They use data, sign young players and look to make a profit on players. There's no reason why we can't use some of those ideas to better ourselves, and in appointing Speakmann we may well take more advantage of this.

But we're not like Brentford in other areas at all, in fact we're more or less the polar opposite. We have one of the most well regarded academy set ups in the country, for one thing.
There's no shame in aiming high and falling short.

Over a 46 game season?

Yes. Injuries and suspensions make that a little trickier to assess, but that's what the data says.
 
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It's a really lazy comparison. Brentford do things their own way and it works for them. They use data, sign young players and look to make a profit on players. There's no reason why we can't use some of those ideas to better ourselves, and in appointing Speakmann we may well take more advantage of this.

But we're not like Brentford in other areas at all, in fact we're more or less the polar opposite. We have one of the most well regarded academy set ups in the country, for one thing.


Yes. Injuries and suspensions make that a little trickier to assess, but that's what the data says.
What data's this? Goals, clean sheets, assists?
 
Have to get out of this league first, but supposing we do that is a yes for me.
The new owners and regime will also have a target to get up to the Prem I think (one year, two years who knows). These things are all money driven and the money available in the Prem, will fuel the clubs ambition, so IMO, surviving in the championship will not be the option.
Hopefully as supporters we can enjoy the ride as long it is done on a sustainable basis.
 
Have to get out of this league first, but supposing we do that is a yes for me.
The new owners and regime will also have a target to get up to the Prem I think (one year, two years who knows). These things are all money driven and the money available in the Prem, will fuel the clubs ambition, so IMO, surviving in the championship will not be the option.
Hopefully as supporters we can enjoy the ride as long it is done on a sustainable basis.
Yeah, I'm hopeful that the owner's ambitions far exceed some of the more cautious folk on here.
 
What data's this? Goals, clean sheets, assists?

The more wages you pay players, the better you do as a club. Those who pay the highest wages tend to finish higher up the league, as you'd expect.

Research by Stefan Szymanski and Guy Wilkinson found that a team's best three players had far and away the biggest impact on a football team's results, and that it's therefore beneficial to spend big (wages) on your best three players. The idea that 'you're only as good as your weakest player' seems to be a bit of a myth.

It might be why we're starting to see some success now - McGeady, Jones and Wyke as a combination look far too good for most teams in this league, and it doesn't matter if we're weaker in other areas - it's much more preferable to have those three than eleven Carl Winchesters (for instance).
 
The more wages you pay players, the better you do as a club. Those who pay the highest wages tend to finish higher up the league, as you'd expect.

Research by Stefan Szymanski and Guy Wilkinson found that a team's best three players had far and away the biggest impact on a football team's results, and that it's therefore beneficial to spend big (wages) on your best three players. The idea that 'you're only as good as your weakest player' seems to be a bit of a myth.

It might be why we're starting to see some success now - McGeady, Jones and Wyke as a combination look far too good for most teams in this league, and it doesn't matter if we're weaker in other areas - it's much more preferable to have those three than eleven Carl Winchesters (for instance).
Interesting that - where've ya picked it up from?

I suppose keeping them fit is another issue.

Look at Liverpool, case in point. They've had that front three for most of the season, but lost Van Dijk, and have all but lost Henderson, and look at the clip of them as a result.
 
Interesting that - where've ya picked it up from?

I suppose keeping them fit is another issue.

Look at Liverpool, case in point. They've had that front three for most of the season, but lost Van Dijk, and have all but lost Henderson, and look at the clip of them as a result.

That's from Soccernomics. The author of The Numbers Game made a slightly different argument that teams should replace their weakest player, but research found that those best three players should make up about 70% of your budget, as they're going to have a much bigger impact that anyone else. The five cheapest players in your XI will have very little impact on the outcome of games in general.

Liverpool's current predicament could be a really good example.
 
If we go up next season we should be aiming for top 6 in the premier the year after. People go on about the Premiership now as if it’s this fantastic league where you have to spend hundreds of millions to get out of it but look at West Ham winning every week now and that's with Moyes. If they can do it no reason why we can’t if we try and get 5/6 good players in.

Talk about getting ahead of yourself ..... no doubt you'll want the Champions League in 2024 as well
 
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