How are sunderland viewed by managerial contenders? (The Athletic)


Kyle89

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In the space of a fortnight at the end of April and beginning of May, Sunderland released their latest accounts, for season 2021-22, then defeated Luton Town 2-1 at the Stadium of Light in the first leg of a Championship play-off semi-final.

Suddenly, Sunderland were a draw away from Wembley, and a win there from a return to the Premier League, having just disclosed their wages to turnover ratio was an impressive 62 per cent.


Ultimately, Luton benefitted from the injury crisis afflicting Sunderland to win the second leg 2-0, and all know and salute their remarkable rise.

But had Sunderland been the ones to go up via the play-offs last season, the focus beyond Wearside would have been on more than the youthful vibrancy of Tony Mowbray’s attractive side; there would have been many looking at how the club had come so far, so relatively quickly and cheaply.

On Saturday, five days after the removal of Mowbray, Sunderland skipped back into the Championship play-off places with a 2-1 home victory against West Bromwich Albion that would have been more straightforward had Jobe Bellingham’s onside first-half goal not been disallowed.

Sunderland’s approach — what they think and why they think it — is being revisited.

Logon or register to see this image

Bellingham was a significant summer signing (Michael Driver/MI News/NurPhoto via Getty Images)
The signing of Bellingham from fellow second-tier side Birmingham City when he was 17, along with several others in the summer and last January, such as Pierre Ekwah from West Ham United — a week after he turned 21 — means Sunderland’s player wages will have risen, and perhaps in percentage terms as well.

But then turnover will have gone up — multiple television games due to Mowbray’s good-to-watch tactics and the spectacle of the near 50,000-capacity stadium are factors – so the club may continue to look economically prudent while developing young players and staging promotion bids.

A question occupying Wearside is: how long this can go on? How long can a club of Sunderland’s scale, of such history, prominence and meaning locally, be primarily developmental with promotion ambition as an addition?

It could be said it works for Brighton & Hove Albion. But that would ignore the volume of Tony Bloom’s investment there and would fail to recognise the cultural difference in the areas — Brighton & Hove Albion are not the biggest thing in either Brighton or Hove. Sunderland are essential to Sunderland, to its perception and self-perception.


The club sold 33,000 season tickets this summer, while in the second tier of English football. Those supporters then saw striker Ross Stewart sold for £10million ($12.5m). His replacements — Nazariy Rusyn (25; £2.5m), Mason Burstow (20; loan from Chelsea), Eliezer Mayenda, (18; fee unknown) and Luis Hemir Semedo (20; for £500,000) — have yet to score once between them.

Mowbray knew this. He knew the club’s hierarchy seemed happier to sign four young players for minimal outlay than, say, one proven striker — somebody older and so more costly.

It is hazardous to analyse when transfer fees are kept private but, in ballpark figures, over the last four transfer windows, Sunderland’s net spend may be somewhere between £7million and £10m. For parochial context, with an FA Cup derby against bitter local rivals Newcastle United looming next month, that is less than the price of one of Chris Wood’s legs.

In a Championship context, Nathan Broadhead has seven goals this season for second-placed Ipswich Town. Broadhead had been at Sunderland on loan from Everton in 2021-22, when they were in third-tier League One, and was destined to sign permanently; then Ipswich, also in League One at the time, offered higher wages and agreed to meet the reported £1.5million transfer fee.

Ipswich are currently 18 points ahead of Sunderland in second place, but their last wages-to-turnover ratio was 114 per cent. That would seem unsustainable but it may take them to the Premier League, where their turnover would soar. It is comparable to Nottingham Forest, whose wages-to-turnover ratio was 200 per cent at one stage. But it got them promotion from the Championship in 2022 and they now look capable of staying in the Premier League for years.

Logon or register to see this image

Could Will Still be tempted to leave Reims for Sunderland? (Jean Catuffe/Getty Images)
The gamble is obvious. So there are big questions for any fanbase, including Sunderland’s over (if not outright) ambition, then the pace of ambition.


Majority owner Kyril Louis-Dreyfus has said the club have a five-year plan to reach the Premier League. This is year three. So why sack Mowbray now? It’s another question.

The probable answer to the larger one — how long this twin-track approach towards prudence and ambition can go on? — is: as long as Sunderland are winning matches. Fans can tolerate victories.

In Mowbray’s absence, and with the much-talked ‘succession plan’ yet to yield a successor, first-team coach Mike Dodds has stepped up. Dodds’ starting XI and substitutions delivered a recognisably Mowbray performance of fluency, attack and the odd defensive concern against West Brom. But the three points were deserved and it bought the club some time — at least until Leeds United visit on Tuesday. Leeds are third, and a better team than fifth-placed Albion.

Dodds, a 37-year-old from the Midlands, was relieved and buoyant and when asked about the club’s overall philosophy, he brought it back to Luton.

On Friday, he had talked about the rest of Sunderland’s season, with promotion as an ambition. Now he was asked if that is realistic.

“Was it realistic that last year we came in the top six?” Dodds said. “We did it, so it’s achievable. Is it realistic that Luton are in the Premier League with their budget? It can be done.

“But one thing I’ll say about this football club is that they’re not going to deviate from what they believe is right. They are clear and focused on how they want to run the football club. That’s pretty evident.
 
In the space of a fortnight at the end of April and beginning of May, Sunderland released their latest accounts, for season 2021-22, then defeated Luton Town 2-1 at the Stadium of Light in the first leg of a Championship play-off semi-final.

Suddenly, Sunderland were a draw away from Wembley, and a win there from a return to the Premier League, having just disclosed their wages to turnover ratio was an impressive 62 per cent.


Ultimately, Luton benefitted from the injury crisis afflicting Sunderland to win the second leg 2-0, and all know and salute their remarkable rise.

But had Sunderland been the ones to go up via the play-offs last season, the focus beyond Wearside would have been on more than the youthful vibrancy of Tony Mowbray’s attractive side; there would have been many looking at how the club had come so far, so relatively quickly and cheaply.

On Saturday, five days after the removal of Mowbray, Sunderland skipped back into the Championship play-off places with a 2-1 home victory against West Bromwich Albion that would have been more straightforward had Jobe Bellingham’s onside first-half goal not been disallowed.

Sunderland’s approach — what they think and why they think it — is being revisited.

Logon or register to see this image

Bellingham was a significant summer signing (Michael Driver/MI News/NurPhoto via Getty Images)
The signing of Bellingham from fellow second-tier side Birmingham City when he was 17, along with several others in the summer and last January, such as Pierre Ekwah from West Ham United — a week after he turned 21 — means Sunderland’s player wages will have risen, and perhaps in percentage terms as well.

But then turnover will have gone up — multiple television games due to Mowbray’s good-to-watch tactics and the spectacle of the near 50,000-capacity stadium are factors – so the club may continue to look economically prudent while developing young players and staging promotion bids.

A question occupying Wearside is: how long this can go on? How long can a club of Sunderland’s scale, of such history, prominence and meaning locally, be primarily developmental with promotion ambition as an addition?

It could be said it works for Brighton & Hove Albion. But that would ignore the volume of Tony Bloom’s investment there and would fail to recognise the cultural difference in the areas — Brighton & Hove Albion are not the biggest thing in either Brighton or Hove. Sunderland are essential to Sunderland, to its perception and self-perception.


The club sold 33,000 season tickets this summer, while in the second tier of English football. Those supporters then saw striker Ross Stewart sold for £10million ($12.5m). His replacements — Nazariy Rusyn (25; £2.5m), Mason Burstow (20; loan from Chelsea), Eliezer Mayenda, (18; fee unknown) and Luis Hemir Semedo (20; for £500,000) — have yet to score once between them.

Mowbray knew this. He knew the club’s hierarchy seemed happier to sign four young players for minimal outlay than, say, one proven striker — somebody older and so more costly.

It is hazardous to analyse when transfer fees are kept private but, in ballpark figures, over the last four transfer windows, Sunderland’s net spend may be somewhere between £7million and £10m. For parochial context, with an FA Cup derby against bitter local rivals Newcastle United looming next month, that is less than the price of one of Chris Wood’s legs.

In a Championship context, Nathan Broadhead has seven goals this season for second-placed Ipswich Town. Broadhead had been at Sunderland on loan from Everton in 2021-22, when they were in third-tier League One, and was destined to sign permanently; then Ipswich, also in League One at the time, offered higher wages and agreed to meet the reported £1.5million transfer fee.

Ipswich are currently 18 points ahead of Sunderland in second place, but their last wages-to-turnover ratio was 114 per cent. That would seem unsustainable but it may take them to the Premier League, where their turnover would soar. It is comparable to Nottingham Forest, whose wages-to-turnover ratio was 200 per cent at one stage. But it got them promotion from the Championship in 2022 and they now look capable of staying in the Premier League for years.

Logon or register to see this image

Could Will Still be tempted to leave Reims for Sunderland? (Jean Catuffe/Getty Images)
The gamble is obvious. So there are big questions for any fanbase, including Sunderland’s over (if not outright) ambition, then the pace of ambition.


Majority owner Kyril Louis-Dreyfus has said the club have a five-year plan to reach the Premier League. This is year three. So why sack Mowbray now? It’s another question.

The probable answer to the larger one — how long this twin-track approach towards prudence and ambition can go on? — is: as long as Sunderland are winning matches. Fans can tolerate victories.

In Mowbray’s absence, and with the much-talked ‘succession plan’ yet to yield a successor, first-team coach Mike Dodds has stepped up. Dodds’ starting XI and substitutions delivered a recognisably Mowbray performance of fluency, attack and the odd defensive concern against West Brom. But the three points were deserved and it bought the club some time — at least until Leeds United visit on Tuesday. Leeds are third, and a better team than fifth-placed Albion.

Dodds, a 37-year-old from the Midlands, was relieved and buoyant and when asked about the club’s overall philosophy, he brought it back to Luton.

On Friday, he had talked about the rest of Sunderland’s season, with promotion as an ambition. Now he was asked if that is realistic.

“Was it realistic that last year we came in the top six?” Dodds said. “We did it, so it’s achievable. Is it realistic that Luton are in the Premier League with their budget? It can be done.

“But one thing I’ll say about this football club is that they’re not going to deviate from what they believe is right. They are clear and focused on how they want to run the football club. That’s pretty evident.
Please tell me you copied & pasted that
 
Using teams that have taken a huge risk financially isn’t the best way to make your point. Wigan also went for it when they came up like Ipswich but were abysmal at it. Luton and Ipswich so far have had success because they’ve done it very well. Hardly a reason to use them as a barometer
 
In a Championship context, Nathan Broadhead has seven goals this season for second-placed Ipswich Town. Broadhead had been at Sunderland on loan from Everton in 2021-22, when they were in third-tier League One, and was destined to sign permanently; then Ipswich, also in League One at the time, offered higher wages and agreed to meet the reported £1.5million transfer fee.
That appears to ignore Broadhead turning us down in the summer to go on loan to Wigan. I'm also not sure that Broadhead was ever going to sign permanently for us.
 
In the space of a fortnight at the end of April and beginning of May, Sunderland released their latest accounts, for season 2021-22, then defeated Luton Town 2-1 at the Stadium of Light in the first leg of a Championship play-off semi-final.

Suddenly, Sunderland were a draw away from Wembley, and a win there from a return to the Premier League, having just disclosed their wages to turnover ratio was an impressive 62 per cent.


Ultimately, Luton benefitted from the injury crisis afflicting Sunderland to win the second leg 2-0, and all know and salute their remarkable rise.

But had Sunderland been the ones to go up via the play-offs last season, the focus beyond Wearside would have been on more than the youthful vibrancy of Tony Mowbray’s attractive side; there would have been many looking at how the club had come so far, so relatively quickly and cheaply.

On Saturday, five days after the removal of Mowbray, Sunderland skipped back into the Championship play-off places with a 2-1 home victory against West Bromwich Albion that would have been more straightforward had Jobe Bellingham’s onside first-half goal not been disallowed.

Sunderland’s approach — what they think and why they think it — is being revisited.

Logon or register to see this image

Bellingham was a significant summer signing (Michael Driver/MI News/NurPhoto via Getty Images)
The signing of Bellingham from fellow second-tier side Birmingham City when he was 17, along with several others in the summer and last January, such as Pierre Ekwah from West Ham United — a week after he turned 21 — means Sunderland’s player wages will have risen, and perhaps in percentage terms as well.

But then turnover will have gone up — multiple television games due to Mowbray’s good-to-watch tactics and the spectacle of the near 50,000-capacity stadium are factors – so the club may continue to look economically prudent while developing young players and staging promotion bids.

A question occupying Wearside is: how long this can go on? How long can a club of Sunderland’s scale, of such history, prominence and meaning locally, be primarily developmental with promotion ambition as an addition?

It could be said it works for Brighton & Hove Albion. But that would ignore the volume of Tony Bloom’s investment there and would fail to recognise the cultural difference in the areas — Brighton & Hove Albion are not the biggest thing in either Brighton or Hove. Sunderland are essential to Sunderland, to its perception and self-perception.


The club sold 33,000 season tickets this summer, while in the second tier of English football. Those supporters then saw striker Ross Stewart sold for £10million ($12.5m). His replacements — Nazariy Rusyn (25; £2.5m), Mason Burstow (20; loan from Chelsea), Eliezer Mayenda, (18; fee unknown) and Luis Hemir Semedo (20; for £500,000) — have yet to score once between them.

Mowbray knew this. He knew the club’s hierarchy seemed happier to sign four young players for minimal outlay than, say, one proven striker — somebody older and so more costly.

It is hazardous to analyse when transfer fees are kept private but, in ballpark figures, over the last four transfer windows, Sunderland’s net spend may be somewhere between £7million and £10m. For parochial context, with an FA Cup derby against bitter local rivals Newcastle United looming next month, that is less than the price of one of Chris Wood’s legs.

In a Championship context, Nathan Broadhead has seven goals this season for second-placed Ipswich Town. Broadhead had been at Sunderland on loan from Everton in 2021-22, when they were in third-tier League One, and was destined to sign permanently; then Ipswich, also in League One at the time, offered higher wages and agreed to meet the reported £1.5million transfer fee.

Ipswich are currently 18 points ahead of Sunderland in second place, but their last wages-to-turnover ratio was 114 per cent. That would seem unsustainable but it may take them to the Premier League, where their turnover would soar. It is comparable to Nottingham Forest, whose wages-to-turnover ratio was 200 per cent at one stage. But it got them promotion from the Championship in 2022 and they now look capable of staying in the Premier League for years.

Logon or register to see this image

Could Will Still be tempted to leave Reims for Sunderland? (Jean Catuffe/Getty Images)
The gamble is obvious. So there are big questions for any fanbase, including Sunderland’s over (if not outright) ambition, then the pace of ambition.


Majority owner Kyril Louis-Dreyfus has said the club have a five-year plan to reach the Premier League. This is year three. So why sack Mowbray now? It’s another question.

The probable answer to the larger one — how long this twin-track approach towards prudence and ambition can go on? — is: as long as Sunderland are winning matches. Fans can tolerate victories.

In Mowbray’s absence, and with the much-talked ‘succession plan’ yet to yield a successor, first-team coach Mike Dodds has stepped up. Dodds’ starting XI and substitutions delivered a recognisably Mowbray performance of fluency, attack and the odd defensive concern against West Brom. But the three points were deserved and it bought the club some time — at least until Leeds United visit on Tuesday. Leeds are third, and a better team than fifth-placed Albion.

Dodds, a 37-year-old from the Midlands, was relieved and buoyant and when asked about the club’s overall philosophy, he brought it back to Luton.

On Friday, he had talked about the rest of Sunderland’s season, with promotion as an ambition. Now he was asked if that is realistic.

“Was it realistic that last year we came in the top six?” Dodds said. “We did it, so it’s achievable. Is it realistic that Luton are in the Premier League with their budget? It can be done.

“But one thing I’ll say about this football club is that they’re not going to deviate from what they believe is right. They are clear and focused on how they want to run the football club. That’s pretty evident.
A lot of drivel there mind, so can they just answer the question How are sunderland viewed by managerial contenders? no
 
Seemed to suggest we played similar against WBA to how Mowbray set us up before he was sacked - it was fuck all like how he had us playing imo.
 
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In the space of a fortnight at the end of April and beginning of May, Sunderland released their latest accounts, for season 2021-22, then defeated Luton Town 2-1 at the Stadium of Light in the first leg of a Championship play-off semi-final.

Suddenly, Sunderland were a draw away from Wembley, and a win there from a return to the Premier League, having just disclosed their wages to turnover ratio was an impressive 62 per cent.


Ultimately, Luton benefitted from the injury crisis afflicting Sunderland to win the second leg 2-0, and all know and salute their remarkable rise.

But had Sunderland been the ones to go up via the play-offs last season, the focus beyond Wearside would have been on more than the youthful vibrancy of Tony Mowbray’s attractive side; there would have been many looking at how the club had come so far, so relatively quickly and cheaply.

On Saturday, five days after the removal of Mowbray, Sunderland skipped back into the Championship play-off places with a 2-1 home victory against West Bromwich Albion that would have been more straightforward had Jobe Bellingham’s onside first-half goal not been disallowed.

Sunderland’s approach — what they think and why they think it — is being revisited.


The signing of Bellingham from fellow second-tier side Birmingham City when he was 17, along with several others in the summer and last January, such as Pierre Ekwah from West Ham United — a week after he turned 21 — means Sunderland’s player wages will have risen, and perhaps in percentage terms as well.

But then turnover will have gone up — multiple television games due to Mowbray’s good-to-watch tactics and the spectacle of the near 50,000-capacity stadium are factors – so the club may continue to look economically prudent while developing young players and staging promotion bids.

A question occupying Wearside is: how long this can go on? How long can a club of Sunderland’s scale, of such history, prominence and meaning locally, be primarily developmental with promotion ambition as an addition?

It could be said it works for Brighton & Hove Albion. But that would ignore the volume of Tony Bloom’s investment there and would fail to recognise the cultural difference in the areas — Brighton & Hove Albion are not the biggest thing in either Brighton or Hove. Sunderland are essential to Sunderland, to its perception and self-perception.


The club sold 33,000 season tickets this summer, while in the second tier of English football. Those supporters then saw striker Ross Stewart sold for £10million ($12.5m). His replacements — Nazariy Rusyn (25; £2.5m), Mason Burstow (20; loan from Chelsea), Eliezer Mayenda, (18; fee unknown) and Luis Hemir Semedo (20; for £500,000) — have yet to score once between them.

Mowbray knew this. He knew the club’s hierarchy seemed happier to sign four young players for minimal outlay than, say, one proven striker — somebody older and so more costly.

It is hazardous to analyse when transfer fees are kept private but, in ballpark figures, over the last four transfer windows, Sunderland’s net spend may be somewhere between £7million and £10m. For parochial context, with an FA Cup derby against bitter local rivals Newcastle United looming next month, that is less than the price of one of Chris Wood’s legs.

In a Championship context, Nathan Broadhead has seven goals this season for second-placed Ipswich Town. Broadhead had been at Sunderland on loan from Everton in 2021-22, when they were in third-tier League One, and was destined to sign permanently; then Ipswich, also in League One at the time, offered higher wages and agreed to meet the reported £1.5million transfer fee.

Ipswich are currently 18 points ahead of Sunderland in second place, but their last wages-to-turnover ratio was 114 per cent. That would seem unsustainable but it may take them to the Premier League, where their turnover would soar. It is comparable to Nottingham Forest, whose wages-to-turnover ratio was 200 per cent at one stage. But it got them promotion from the Championship in 2022 and they now look capable of staying in the Premier League for years.


Majority owner Kyril Louis-Dreyfus has said the club have a five-year plan to reach the Premier League. This is year three. So why sack Mowbray now? It’s another question.

The probable answer to the larger one — how long this twin-track approach towards prudence and ambition can go on? — is: as long as Sunderland are winning matches. Fans can tolerate victories.

In Mowbray’s absence, and with the much-talked ‘succession plan’ yet to yield a successor, first-team coach Mike Dodds has stepped up. Dodds’ starting XI and substitutions delivered a recognisably Mowbray performance of fluency, attack and the odd defensive concern against West Brom. But the three points were deserved and it bought the club some time — at least until Leeds United visit on Tuesday. Leeds are third, and a better team than fifth-placed Albion.

Dodds, a 37-year-old from the Midlands, was relieved and buoyant and when asked about the club’s overall philosophy, he brought it back to Luton.

On Friday, he had talked about the rest of Sunderland’s season, with promotion as an ambition. Now he was asked if that is realistic.

“Was it realistic that last year we came in the top six?” Dodds said. “We did it, so it’s achievable. Is it realistic that Luton are in the Premier League with their budget? It can be done.

“But one thing I’ll say about this football club is that they’re not going to deviate from what they believe is right. They are clear and focused on how they want to run the football club. That’s pretty evident.



“They want to sign young footballers, work with them, develop them, and (then) two things are either going to happen — sell them for a significant amount of money and regenerate with that money, or those players are going to take us to the Premier League.

“So, is it realistic? I think it’s realistic. I wouldn’t play that down, because that would be my expectation. Knowing the group, they have really high standards and if Luton can do it — with all due respect to Luton — why not?”


On Saturday, with the score 0-0, Dodds introduced Pritchard for Adil Aouchiche, 21, who had, intermittingly, been dangerous. It was six minutes later than Mowbray had acted in the previous game, but again the nous and awareness of the older player lifted the side. A Pritchard free kick was headed in by Dan Ballard to make it 1-0 and a superb breakaway pass from Pritchard released Dan Neil to make it 2-0. Presumably, Mowbray was smiling to himself somewhere.

Dodds had left three of the four acquired strikers on the bench and the other, Hemir, was not involved at all. He played Bellingham as a No 9, and having worked with both him and his brother Jude at Birmingham, Dodds said: “I’ve had the privilege of coaching him from a very young age, and I watched him playing as a striker pretty much up until the under-14s. It wasn’t until he got a bit older that his position changed.”

West Brom got a late goal but the result had been secured.

Louis-Dreyfus’ lunchtime had begun with him being refused entry to the stadium car park but now he was on his feet in the directors’ box, applauding. This was a big win for Sunderland’s ownership.

Dodds remains in charge and were the performance and/or result against Leeds to be positive, he might be an out ball, at least until the end of the season.


Interviews for Mowbray’s successor are ongoing. And today (Sunday), Louis-Dreyfus may well have had eyes on Nice’s 2-1 win over Reims in Ligue 1. Nice manager Francesco Farioli was linked with Sunderland in May and his Reims counterpart Will Still is today.

Hiring Still would represent a step-change in ambition. Do Sunderland want to make that step?

It’s another question.

Solvent? Clever? Ambitious? Realistic? One wonders how contenders view 2023 Sunderland.
A lot of drivel there mind, so can they just answer the question How are sunderland viewed by managerial contenders? no
Well they don’t actually just raise more questions 😂
 
That appears to ignore Broadhead turning us down in the summer to go on loan to Wigan. I'm also not sure that Broadhead was ever going to sign permanently for us.

I'm sure Broadhead mostly plays on the left of a front 3 so it's not like the lad leads the line. Would have been best to put him up against Clarke, but then that would go against this journos point.

Reads a bit like one of Tony's mates trying to have a pop.
 
Pretty poor article from Walker who is usually one of the better writers. It might have been updated but when I read it an hour or so ago it said we signed Hemir in January, seems to suggest Broadhead joined Ipswich the summer we got promoted rather than joining us. It then poses questions that have no answers, it's just all a bit of a nothing article.
 
I'm sure Broadhead mostly plays on the left of a front 3 so it's not like the lad leads the line. Would have been best to put him up against Clarke, but then that would go against this journos point.

Reads a bit like one of Tony's mates trying to have a pop.

Yeah, the first choice for Ipswich is George Hirst up top with Broadhead left, Chaplin central and Burns on the right behind him. Harness, Hutchinson, Ladapo, Jackson all seem to slot in when required. Dane Scarlett as well but he's doing a Burstow for them.
 
A lot of drivel there mind, so can they just answer the question How are sunderland viewed by managerial contenders? no

Basically if they come here they’re going to have fuck all to spend and will almost entirely rely on cheap, young (U21) players. These U21s will likely be class however, and the sky is the limit realistically. We repeat the process every season until eventually we strike lucky and get promoted, and paid a fortune in the premier league. Nobody knows what happens then, I.e with the owners, investment etc.

That what it reads like to me.

Also altho it’s frustrating at times I’d take this model over what we’ve had the last 15 years or so.
 
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It’s all about Speakman briefing Dodds into the conversation . His mate who will do as he is told . Even in the quotes above from Dodds about young players are the party line . Young players will either be sold for a lot of money or take us to the Premier league he said however neither of those things might happen . We are being told not to be ambitious and not to expect
 

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