Hold off on installing Windows 10 "Fall update"

Just finished fall update on PC (appears to be working fine) and Laptop OK as well. First time managed an update with out any problems though. One more laptop to update but not today after reading about problems here. Balance of probability suggests something might go wrong and bite me in the ass!
 


I don't care about them. I just want my bog standard business laptop to be as reliable as its Windows 7 predecessor was. Actually at this stage I'll settle for an OS that can go a week without basic failures.
So that would be Windows 10 laptop that isn't cheap. Problem solved ;)

Apple have never had the monopoly on hardware, as I've said there are military grade Windows systems that go well beyond anything Apple have ever made.
It's also long since been true that Apple have had the monopoly on reliable OSs for a few years now. Windows and Android have caught up and overtaken in some areas of reliability and quality.
Even the extremely few pieces of exclusive software that Apple once had are available on Windows and have been for years.
On the other hand you can get hardware just as good as Apple's, with Windows installed for less than a Mac.
You also have an operating system that has access to the worlds largest library of games ever, including a host of new and cutting edge titles.
It also has more application software than any other platform ever.
More businesses use them.
They integrate directly with sister products in the server sector

There's no reason at all why you should get an Apple computer over a well sourced Windows computer. Beyond personal preference and extreme niche uses.
This is fact.

They are simply status symbols or a fashion accessory to show off.
 
So that would be Windows 10 laptop that isn't cheap. Problem solved ;)

Apple have never had the monopoly on hardware, as I've said there are military grade Windows systems that go well beyond anything Apple have ever made.
It's also long since been true that Apple have had the monopoly on reliable OSs for a few years now. Windows and Android have caught up and overtaken in some areas of reliability and quality.
Even the extremely few pieces of exclusive software that Apple once had are available on Windows and have been for years.
On the other hand you can get hardware just as good as Apple's, with Windows installed for less than a Mac.
You also have an operating system that has access to the worlds largest library of games ever, including a host of new and cutting edge titles.
It also has more application software than any other platform ever.
More businesses use them.
They integrate directly with sister products in the server sector

There's no reason at all why you should get an Apple computer over a well sourced Windows computer. Beyond personal preference and extreme niche uses.
This is fact.

They are simply status symbols or a fashion accessory to show off.
It's a year old Dell Latitude. Are you telling me that's cheap crap that can't be expected to run an OS reliably? Because a) it's one of the most common (and well specced) business laptops there is, and b) it runs Windows 7 fine.

Which all points to Windows 10 being the problem.

Case in point., I had to recently upgrade the RAM from 8gb to 16gb to stop (well, delay) Chrome from crashing the OS due to low memory. Despite having a big swapfile. That just shouldn't happen.
 
It's a year old Dell Latitude. Are you telling me that's cheap crap that can't be expected to run an OS reliably? Because a) it's one of the most common (and well specced) business laptops there is, and b) it runs Windows 7 fine.

Which all points to Windows 10 being the problem.

Case in point., I had to recently upgrade the RAM from 8gb to 16gb to stop (well, delay) Chrome from crashing the OS due to low memory. Despite having a big swapfile.
I said in general that if you buy a cheap Windows system

Windows 10 is statistically the best version of Windows ever.
It's a year old Dell Latitude. Are you telling me that's cheap crap that can't be expected to run an OS reliably? Because a) it's one of the most common (and well specced) business laptops there is, and b) it runs Windows 7 fine.

Which all points to Windows 10 being the problem.

Case in point., I had to recently upgrade the RAM from 8gb to 16gb to stop (well, delay) Chrome from crashing the OS due to low memory. Despite having a big swapfile. That just shouldn't happen.

Morning marra.
I said generally that if you buy a cheap Windows system don't expect it to be as good as another system 2 or 3 times the price due to the hardware. At that point it's irrelevant what OS is on it.
Apple fanbois always compare thier £1500 laptop to a £500 Windows laptop or thier £1000 phone to a £250 Android phone. I'm going to guess your Dell is a lot cheaper than a similarly specced Apple laptop too.

I take your word that it ran W7 in an acceptable way, and struggles with W10, but that's not point and case. That argument is far too simplistic involving no analysis of the situation at all.
Windows 10 is statistically the best version of Windows ever. It's statistically the most performant overall. It also has the most efficient memory management.
Just because you or I have this particular issue/s does not mean it's an issue with Windows 10 in general. As there's 500 million people that run it just fine.
My broken, old, second hand, 6 year old laptop runs Windows 10 fall creators edition just fine. In fact, I'm using it now to type to you. It runs much more demanding development and creation software than Chrome too. Is that point in case too? Of course not.

Your specific case with your laptop, or mine with FCU not installing on one of my desktops is the exception, not the rule.

Almost all the world uses Windows in homes and business for a reason for a plethora of different reasons, NOT Apple or Linux.

On a more specific note. If your 16GB laptop is crashing due to low memory just because you're using Chrome, then you have serious issues that are well beyond Windows 10. You should get it checked out. User error perhaps? :lol:

 
Morning marra.
I said generally that if you buy a cheap Windows system don't expect it to be as good as another system 2 or 3 times the price due to the hardware. At that point it's irrelevant what OS is on it.
Apple fanbois always compare thier £1500 laptop to a £500 Windows laptop or thier £1000 phone to a £250 Android phone. I'm going to guess your Dell is a lot cheaper than a similarly specced Apple laptop too.

I take your word that it ran W7 in an acceptable way, and struggles with W10, but that's not point and case. That argument is far too simplistic involving no analysis of the situation at all.
Windows 10 is statistically the best version of Windows ever. It's statistically the most performant overall. It also has the most efficient memory management.
Just because you or I have this particular issue/s does not mean it's an issue with Windows 10 in general. As there's 500 million people that run it just fine.
My broken, old, second hand, 6 year old laptop runs Windows 10 fall creators edition just fine. In fact, I'm using it now to type to you. It runs much more demanding development and creation software than Chrome too. Is that point in case too? Of course not.

Your specific case with your laptop, or mine with FCU not installing on one of my desktops is the exception, not the rule.

Almost all the world uses Windows in homes and business for a reason for a plethora of different reasons, NOT Apple or Linux.

On a more specific note. If your 16GB laptop is crashing due to low memory just because you're using Chrome, then you have serious issues that are well beyond Windows 10. You should get it checked out. User error perhaps? :lol:

If that isn't NT 4, Win 2000, XP or Win 7 (assuming that "acceptable" encompasses reliability) I'll eat my gerbil while being gang raped by my neighbour's three maltese shih tzus.

And please stop talking about Apple and Linux, to me anyway. They're shit too. I'm not dissing Windows to promote them, I'm dissing Windows 10 because it's f***ing rubbish even on bread and butter hardware (that previous versions loved).

Your last paragraph demonstrates that you really don't understand these things. Chrome has a memory leak. That's Chrome's fault. But a memory leak in an app shouldn't crash the OS. And how you can link that to user error is beyond me. Unless I'm the only person in the world that runs half a dozen browser windows with an average of a dozen tabs open in each, and it should have been clear that that's way beyond reasonable use.
 
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If that isn't NT 4, Win 2000, XP or Win 7 (assuming that "acceptable" encompasses reliability) I'll eat my gerbil while being gang raped by my neighbour's three maltese shih tzus.

And please stop talking about Apple and Linux, to me anyway. They're shit too. I'm not dissing Windows to promote them, I'm dissing Windows 10 because it's f***ing rubbish even on bread and butter hardware (that previous versions loved).

Your last paragraph demonstrates that you really don't understand these things. Chrome has a memory leak. That's Chrome's fault. But a memory leak in an app shouldn't crash the OS. And how you can link that to user error is beyond me. Unless I'm the only person in the world that runs half a dozen browser windows with an average of a dozen tabs open in each, and it should have been clear that that's way beyond reasonable use.

>If that isn't NT 4, Win 2000, XP or Win 7 (assuming that "acceptable" encompasses reliability) I'll eat my gerbil while being gang raped by my neighbour's three maltese shih tzus.
I guess you'll have to eat your gerbil and get raped then as the statistics back the fact up that Windows 10 is the most reliable, performant and secure version of Windows ever. NT 4, Win 2000, XP used to BSOD all the time due to much more lax controls over drivers, zero data execution protection and a graphics card driver model that was in system space, not user space. So that's utter garbage to say they were more reliable. You can't rant all you want, but that's the facts.

>And please stop talking about Apple and Linux, to me anyway. They're shit too. I'm not dissing Windows to promote them, I'm dissing Windows 10 because it's f***ing rubbish even on bread and butter hardware (that previous versions loved).
They are relevant to the conversation as they are baseline comparisons in the same product space, so no I won't stop using them as examples. Apple and Linux aren't shit either, they just have different strengths and weaknesses compared to Windows. If I wasn't a gamer, a game developer and needed access to certain apps I might be using them instead of Windows 10. Windows 10 is not rubbish on "bread and butter hardware) It works just fine on 6 year old hardware and has *THE* best memory management of any Windows version. Again, facts, not one user's experience or bias.

>Your last paragraph demonstrates that you really don't understand these things. Chrome has a memory leak. That's Chrome's fault. But a memory leak in an app shouldn't crash the OS. And how you can link that to user error is beyond me. Unless I'm the only person in the world that runs half a dozen browser windows with an average of a dozen tabs open in each, and it should have been clear that that's way beyond reasonable use
I've been a Senior Software Engineer for 22 years in Manhattan, Poughkeepsie and places in the UK and have wrote operating systems while at IBM. Lets me just leave that there without trading an insult in return.
You're correct that Windows 10 should never crash because of a runaway memory leak. The only thing these days that could crash Windows (and will for any OS) are badly written drivers that somehow got past the validation process, bad hardware or corrupted system files. What often seems like the cause of a system crash might not be the reason you think. https://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/56110-bsod-while-using-google-chrome.html
I've informed my Microsoft contact of this issue and they are interested in more information.
Can you give me the URLs you visited and the error message and code you got which was displayed on the blue screen when Windows 10 crashed.
You can also get the message and code from the dump file: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/debugger/crash-dump-files
 
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>If that isn't NT 4, Win 2000, XP or Win 7 (assuming that "acceptable" encompasses reliability) I'll eat my gerbil while being gang raped by my neighbour's three maltese shih tzus.
I guess you'll have to eat your gerbil and get raped then as the statistics back the fact up that Windows 10 is the most reliable, performant and secure version of Windows ever. NT 4, Win 2000, XP used to BSOD all the time due to much more lax controls over drivers, zero data execution protection and a graphics card driver model that was in system space, not user space. So that's utter garbage to say they were more reliable. You can't rant all you want, but that's the facts.

>And please stop talking about Apple and Linux, to me anyway. They're shit too. I'm not dissing Windows to promote them, I'm dissing Windows 10 because it's f***ing rubbish even on bread and butter hardware (that previous versions loved).
They are relevant to the conversation as they are baseline comparisons in the same product space, so no I won't stop using them as examples. Apple and Linux aren't shit either, they just have different strengths and weaknesses compared to Windows. If I wasn't a gamer, a game developer and needed access to certain apps I might be using them instead of Windows 10. Windows 10 is not rubbish on "bread and butter hardware) It works just fine on 6 year old hardware and has *THE* best memory management of any Windows version. Again, facts, not one user's experience or bias.

>Your last paragraph demonstrates that you really don't understand these things. Chrome has a memory leak. That's Chrome's fault. But a memory leak in an app shouldn't crash the OS. And how you can link that to user error is beyond me. Unless I'm the only person in the world that runs half a dozen browser windows with an average of a dozen tabs open in each, and it should have been clear that that's way beyond reasonable use
I've been a Senior Software Engineer for 22 years in Manhattan, Poughkeepsie and places in the UK and have wrote operating systems while at IBM. Lets me just leave that there without trading an insult in return.
You're correct that Windows 10 should never crash because of a runaway memory leak. The only thing these days that could crash Windows (and will for any OS) are badly written drivers that somehow got past the validation process, bad hardware or corrupted system files. What often seems like the cause of a system crash might not be the reason you think. https://www.tenforums.com/bsod-crashes-debugging/56110-bsod-while-using-google-chrome.html
I've informed my Microsoft contact of this issue and they are interested in more information.
Can you give me the URLs you visited and the error message and code you got which was displayed on the blue screen when Windows 10 crashed.
You can also get the message and code from the dump file: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/drivers/debugger/crash-dump-files

Can you please use the proper quoting function.

I don't care if you're Batman. I have never before had to add an extra 8gb RAM to a notebook to run a web browser. I've never before had an OS repeatedly fail to resume from Sleep state (requiring a hard reset) and I've never had an OS put itself into a never ending loop of downloading upgrades and failing to install them until my ISP shaped my account. And that's just the start of it.

And I've been using Windows since it came on 3.5" floppies, and I used to write drivers for it for fun, back when you probably didn't know what it was. Same for OS/2. So you can assume that I know what I'm talking about.
 
@HebburnMackem I thought you were arguing with yourself, but now see you are arguing with Silly Billy...don’t waste you’re breath mate he’s a f***ing moron! Stick him on ignore and free up your feed!
You're not fooling anyone.

For one thing you'd be able to see him quoting me. You're just pretending you can't see all the times I have to correct you.
 
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Can you please use the proper quoting function.

I don't care if you're Batman. I have never before had to add an extra 8gb RAM to a notebook to run a web browser. I've never before had an OS repeatedly fail to resume from Sleep state (requiring a hard reset) and I've never had an OS put itself into a never ending loop of downloading upgrades and failing to install them until my ISP shaped my account. And that's just the start of it.

And I've been using Windows since it came on 3.5" floppies, and I used to write drivers for it for fun, back when you probably didn't know what it was. Same for OS/2. So you can assume that I know what I'm talking about.

>Can you please use the proper quoting function.
N0, I prefer the reddit style, even on forums.

>I don't care if you're Batman
Here we go. You're whats is called a "Mr Always Right", who doesn't actually want to debate to solve an issue, instead just wants to "win" by glossing over everything and turning a debate into an argument. This is despite a professional (me) and a plethora of industry statistics telling you Windows 10's stability, security and performance is the best ever for Windows, you just wont have it.

>I've never before had an OS repeatedly fail to resume from Sleep state (requiring a hard reset)
Oh I have, for just about every version of Windows. Those problems are almost always to do with badly constructed drivers who's wake/sleep/hibernate states are not correctly handled, not Windows. The same problem would happen on any version of Windows, Linux and Mac in that circumstance.

>I have never before had to add an extra 8gb RAM to a notebook to run a web browser
I can appreciate that you've never had to "add 8GB to a notebook to run a browser" :lol:, but that is an isolated issue who's root cause you're making assumptions about based on what you see on the surface (You may have done substancially more digging, but not according to what you said). That's why professional developers have to look through crash logs and dumps and perform testing before making such a sweeping statement.
You could turn out to be right in your assumptions, that's why this could be a very serious issue and why Microsoft are interested.

>OS put itself into a never ending loop of downloading upgrades and failing to install
I've had this issue actually, I don't suppose it was Office 2013 updates by any chance?

>And I've been using Windows since it came on 3.5" floppies, and I used to write drivers for it for fun, back when you probably didn't know what it was. Same for OS/2. So you can assume that I know what I'm talking about
I've been using computers since the 1970's mate, programming when tape drives were the standard, then 5.25" floppies years before 3.5" floppies came out. I was one of the developers who worked on OS/2 when at IBM man FFS. No I wont assume anything actually, I try to deal with facts not assumptions with things like this. That's how an analytical process works.

Can we please stop trying to make this into a dick fight?
I've offered to help you fix your "chrome crashes Windows 10" problem, which I'm extremely interested in finding more about.
How about you send me the URLs and error code/message you got and we can sort this out?

@HebburnMackem I thought you were arguing with yourself, but now see you are arguing with Silly Billy...don’t waste you’re breath mate he’s a f***ing moron! Stick him on ignore and free up your feed!
Ah ok, so he has a track record. Duly noted thanks.
 
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>Can you please use the proper quoting function.
N0, I prefer the reddit style, even on forums.

>I don't care if you're Batman
Here we go. You're whats is called a "Mr Always Right", who doesn't actually want to debate to solve an issue, instead just wants to "win" by glossing over everything and turning a debate into an argument. This is despite a professional (me) and a plethora of industry statistics telling you Windows 10's stability, security and performance is the best ever for Windows, you just wont have it.

>I've never before had an OS repeatedly fail to resume from Sleep state (requiring a hard reset)
Oh I have, for just about every version of Windows. Those problems are almost always to do with badly constructed drivers who's wake/sleep/hibernate states are not correctly handled, not Windows. The same problem would happen on any version of Windows, Linux and Mac in that circumstance.

>I have never before had to add an extra 8gb RAM to a notebook to run a web browser
I can appreciate that you've never had to "add 8GB to a notebook to run a browser" :lol:, but that is an isolated issue who's root cause you're making assumptions about based on what you see on the surface (You may have done substancially more digging, but not according to what you said). That's why professional developers have to look through crash logs and dumps and perform testing before making such a sweeping statement.
You could turn out to be right in your assumptions, that's why this could be a very serious issue and why Microsoft are interested.

>OS put itself into a never ending loop of downloading upgrades and failing to install
I've had this issue actually, I don't suppose it was Office 2013 updates by any chance?

>And I've been using Windows since it came on 3.5" floppies, and I used to write drivers for it for fun, back when you probably didn't know what it was. Same for OS/2. So you can assume that I know what I'm talking about
I've been using computers since the 1970's mate, programming when tape drives were the standard, then 5.25" floppies years before 3.5" floppies came out. I was one of the developers who worked on OS/2 when at IBM man FFS. No I wont assume anything actually, I try to deal with facts not assumptions with things like this. That's how an analytical process works.

Can we please stop trying to make this into a dick fight?
I've offered to help you fix your "chrome crashes Windows 10" problem, which I'm extremely interested in finding more about.
How about you send me the URLs and error code/message you got and we can sort this out?


Ah ok, so he has a track record. Duly noted thanks.

If:

1) You can't be arsed to follow board protocol, then I can't be arsed to read the resulting mess

2) "Microsoft" is interested in the Death-By-Chrome problem then PM me the email address of whoever it is, and I'll contact them directly. They can have direct debug access to my machine. I won't be holding my breath though.
 
The first time someone has actually formatted the fucker?

some people seem to think formatting the fucker and shitting in her nicker draw are easily interchangeable but you get them mixed up and shit goes sideways, as seen above

I've offered to help you fix your "chrome crashes Windows 10" problem, which I'm extremely interested in finding more about.
How about you send me the URLs and error code/message you got and we can sort this out?
.

Not sure he's going to reveal those urls marra.

My money is on bestiality
 
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I've got an update from a Microsoft developer / rep for anyone in IT that might find this useful.

Logon or register to see this image


Getting closer to the problem, it seems my HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\hivelist key is empty and its the cause of the issue. "Interesting. That's the bug - your profile will never migrate as long as the hivelist is corrupted"

Why that key is empty on a brand new clean install is very strange.
Why the update did not detect that as an issue before it even tried the upgrade is a concern.
Why is just goes ahead and creates a brand new user profile for you, just like it would with a clean install is not the best.
Why the roll back feature simply does not work is concerning too.

So any computer literate people here can check that key manually to see if they will get the same issue as me.
 
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Another option may be to migrate the old profile across to the new one. We use Profwiz when migrating to new domains, never used it on a home edition though so YMMV of course.
 
[SOLVED]

Problem:
It seems the permissions on key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control were missing 3 users ( SYSTEM (full), Administrators (full), Users (read) )
So when the system builds HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\hivelist every time the system starts, it's contents are essentially invisible to the upgrade scripts. It therefore thinks there's no users and makes a brand new one.

Fix:
Copy the missing users and permissions from HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\ to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\ before starting the update

Cause:

Unknown to me, I missed a week of work due to this. MS are still investigating.
 

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