has anyone's opinion changed

I’d love to hear from you or anyone how the NHS was supposed to keep up all aspects of routine care, AND deal with a pandemic at the same time.

Everyone wants to criticise but nobody has a solution.

I suspect it’s because you’re cowards who thrive off the attention, but I’ll give you the chance to surprise me.
if only these people could understand how triage works...

The NHS had to shift its focus to the clear and present danger to the population, its so simple to understand and as that clear and present danger rescinded we saw the NHS re-shift its focus back to everyday working systems, it really isnt a hard concept.

Gelan doesn't like people pointing out when he is wrong mind, its a shame he tends to be wrong more often than not, maybe because reading long posts makes him sick?

I am very proud of how the NHS quickly moved to a system to prevent harm being done, I understand it has caused issues for some and likely caused some deaths, but how many lives were saved by these measures compared to lives lost?

IMO we should be looking at why so many people in the UK die of diabetes and try and prevent the disease in the first place, thats the bigger question I get from that article.
 


I’d love to hear from you or anyone how the NHS was supposed to keep up all aspects of routine care, AND deal with a pandemic at the same time.

Everyone wants to criticise but nobody has a solution.

I suspect it’s because you’re cowards who thrive off the attention, but I’ll give you the chance to surprise me.

I had my diabetic foot check done yesterday - by a private podiatrist. It cost me £30. Luckily I can afford to do so but when the podiatrist asked about my previous checks I had to say they hadn’t been done.

Under normal pre covid arrangements I would get an appointment for a diabetic eye test and a foot test both carried out at the same appointment. During covid and currently diabetics are still being called for eye tests but the foot checks are no longer happening. When I asked about a referral to an nhs podiatrist to have the checks done I was told that I needed to see my gP - and we all know how easy it is to get to see a GP these days.

You asked for solutions so in my case the simple solution would be for diabetic patients to be referred to a podiatrist without the need to see a GP. Even if such a simple suggestion was put in place you still need to cater for the surgeries that seem to be on a go slow. It’s eight weeks and counting since I asked for a wheelchair assessment - and I’m still waiting.
 
Gelan doesn't like people pointing out when he is wrong mind, its a shame he tends to be wrong more often than not, maybe because reading long posts makes him sick?
Perception and reality are two countries with a sea of acid between them 👍

I'm fab me like :D
 
I’d love to hear from you or anyone how the NHS was supposed to keep up all aspects of routine care, AND deal with a pandemic at the same time.

Everyone wants to criticise but nobody has a solution.

I suspect it’s because you’re cowards who thrive off the attention, but I’ll give you the chance to surprise me.

I have no criticism of the NHS or any of the individual staff I have ever had to deal with at any time. And definitely not during a global pandemic.

With hindsight I bet there probably are things they could have done better,

But I bet there are probably things they did that saved lots of lives. Things that aren't as dramatic or attention grabbing.

But we didn't have hindsight then. What we had was an incredibly fast moving situation and little reliable information to work with.

The important thing is that we learn from the positives and the negatives in case we ever find ourselves in a similar situation
 
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Nothing wrong wth the NHS, it's the people that abuse it. The Government should have used the Nightingales so that those needing checks wouldn't now be dying.
 
Nothing wrong wth the NHS


Try telling that to my father, at 87 years old he was kept waiting for over two hours for a check up , when he went to query why he was late they checked and they didn’t have his notes to hand and he’d have to come back.

At the rearranged appointment he was kept waiting again just over an hour this time and yet again his notes weren’t there.

At the third attempt he eventually saw the specialist and was told he was lucky to be seen at all because he didn’t appreciate the letter of complaint my mother had made unbeknown to him , he also implied that his file would be at the bottom of the pile next time.

But don’t criticise the NHS , it’s just not the done thing.
 
Try telling that to my father, at 87 years old he was kept waiting for over two hours for a check up , when he went to query why he was late they checked and they didn’t have his notes to hand and he’d have to come back.

At the rearranged appointment he was kept waiting again just over an hour this time and yet again his notes weren’t there.

At the third attempt he eventually saw the specialist and was told he was lucky to be seen at all because he didn’t appreciate the letter of complaint my mother had made unbeknown to him , he also implied that his file would be at the bottom of the pile next time.

But don’t criticise the NHS , it’s just not the done thing.
I meant in general, the hard work and dedication of the hands on people. Government decisions, local Government tinkering, complex admin and people that don't look after themselves make it look shit, but when you do get care it is frst class in the main. I know three nurses, a doctor and a Psychiatrist...all would have worked through Covid, but not their call.

First lockdown we knew nothing...the subsequent ones screwed us, and now we will have the access deaths. Let's hope we live and learn.
 
IMO we should be looking at why so many people in the UK die of diabetes and try and prevent the disease in the first place, thats the bigger question I get from that article.

Absolutely. The public health efforts of the 19th and early 20th centuries were all oriented towards combating communicable disease. We fought that battle and we won that battle, but what we face now is a far greater challenge. Combating lifestyle diseases caused by smoking, obesity and a lack of exercise is more difficult, and by some orders of magnitude. It's all about behaviour change and I don't think any state or organisation really has the answer.
I had my diabetic foot check done yesterday - by a private podiatrist. It cost me £30. Luckily I can afford to do so but when the podiatrist asked about my previous checks I had to say they hadn’t been done.

Under normal pre covid arrangements I would get an appointment for a diabetic eye test and a foot test both carried out at the same appointment. During covid and currently diabetics are still being called for eye tests but the foot checks are no longer happening. When I asked about a referral to an nhs podiatrist to have the checks done I was told that I needed to see my gP - and we all know how easy it is to get to see a GP these days.

You asked for solutions so in my case the simple solution would be for diabetic patients to be referred to a podiatrist without the need to see a GP. Even if such a simple suggestion was put in place you still need to cater for the surgeries that seem to be on a go slow. It’s eight weeks and counting since I asked for a wheelchair assessment - and I’m still waiting.

That would be a viable solution, but I'm not sure on the numbers of staff required. Data published last week shows that between September 2009 and February 2022, the number of FTE posts in 'Chiropody and Podiatry' fell from 3,110 to 2,639. Not only is that a decrease of 15%, when accounting for population increase, there are 20% fewer podiatrists per person in 2022 than in 2009. This is despite the % of the population over 65 increasing. This is despite the population prevalence of diabetes increasing.
Try telling that to my father, at 87 years old he was kept waiting for over two hours for a check up , when he went to query why he was late they checked and they didn’t have his notes to hand and he’d have to come back.

At the rearranged appointment he was kept waiting again just over an hour this time and yet again his notes weren’t there.

At the third attempt he eventually saw the specialist and was told he was lucky to be seen at all because he didn’t appreciate the letter of complaint my mother had made unbeknown to him , he also implied that his file would be at the bottom of the pile next time.

But don’t criticise the NHS , it’s just not the done thing.

You absolutely can and should criticise the NHS when it hasn't done the right thing in terms of patient care. If you don't criticise things, they don't improve.

My gripe and I'm sure the gripe of others is with people making entirely baseless criticisms of the service, or expecting it to be able to provide services that it simply isn't being funded to provide. That criticism should be levelled at the state, and specifically the Conservative Party who have been in charge of the NHS for 12 years and are ultimately responsible for making sure it is adequately resourced.
 
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on covid in the last few months as in there were those who were obsessed with locking down face masks etc. etc. and blindly following rules and the ones on the total other side of the spectrum the Conspiracy theorists etc. plus those in the middle

i have just checked the entry requirements for my holiday booking there and you don't even need to have been vaccinated anymore
My opinion on this matter is irrelevant. I don't have a medical degree plus years of experience to back it up.

I wouldn't dream of telling an electrician/plumber/gas fitter/lawyer/accountant how to do their job and I definitely would not contradict a doctor.


There's only one person on that group whose opinion I don't respect unconditionally. See if you can guess who.
 
My opinion on this matter is irrelevant. I don't have a medical degree plus years of experience to back it up.

I wouldn't dream of telling an electrician/plumber/gas fitter/lawyer/accountant how to do their job and I definitely would not contradict a doctor.


There's only one person on that group whose opinion I don't respect unconditionally. See if you can guess who.
I don't think anyones interested in guessing games mate...it's not mumsnet.
 
Absolutely. The public health efforts of the 19th and early 20th centuries were all oriented towards combating communicable disease. We fought that battle and we won that battle, but what we face now is a far greater challenge. Combating lifestyle diseases caused by smoking, obesity and a lack of exercise is more difficult, and by some orders of magnitude. It's all about behaviour change and I don't think any state or organisation really has the answer.


That would be a viable solution, but I'm not sure on the numbers of staff required. Data published last week shows that between September 2009 and February 2022, the number of FTE posts in 'Chiropody and Podiatry' fell from 3,110 to 2,639. Not only is that a decrease of 15%, when accounting for population increase, there are 20% fewer podiatrists per person in 2022 than in 2009. This is despite the % of the population over 65 increasing. This is despite the population prevalence of diabetes increasing.


You absolutely can and should criticise the NHS when it hasn't done the right thing in terms of patient care. If you don't criticise things, they don't improve.

My gripe and I'm sure the gripe of others is with people making entirely baseless criticisms of the service, or expecting it to be able to provide services that it simply isn't being funded to provide. That criticism should be levelled at the state, and specifically the Conservative Party who have been in charge of the NHS for 12 years and are ultimately responsible for making sure it is adequately resourced.


I’d argue it might be adequately resourced but badly managed with levels of wasteful expenditure that a private business couldn’t and wouldn’t put up with.

The overpayment on most things Covid related as a prime example.
 
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I’d argue it might be adequately resourced but badly managed with levels of wasteful expenditure that a private business couldn’t and wouldn’t put up with.

The overpayment on most things Covid related as a prime example.

I'm sure there is more waste in the public sector than the private sector, because the public sector doesn't have to be as ruthless. However, is that waste not just a byproduct of trying to do things that the private sector would never entertain?

I think a lot of people have views on 'waste' in the NHS but most that I speak to struggle to articulate what exactly that waste is.

I'm sorry but I'm not clear on what you mean by the overpayment on most things. Do you mean waste in terms of loans and payments to businesses through COVID recovery funds, or the PPE waste?
 
I'm sure there is more waste in the public sector than the private sector, because the public sector doesn't have to be as ruthless. However, is that waste not just a byproduct of trying to do things that the private sector would never entertain?

I think a lot of people have views on 'waste' in the NHS but most that I speak to struggle to articulate what exactly that waste is.

I'm sorry but I'm not clear on what you mean by the overpayment on most things. Do you mean waste in terms of loans and payments to businesses through COVID recovery funds, or the PPE waste?

PPE and T&T
 
PPE and T&T
I thought both of those were down to central government and not NHS?

If you compare like with like the NHS is consistently rated as one of the most efficient health care providers

You cant compare it to any other private business - the most privately run health care is in the US and its the most bloated expensive system with relatively poor outcomes for the population

I saw one of my patients who was in the states for the Winter and had palpitations went to ER for 2 hours had an ECG and labs - $8000 was the cost
 
Absolutely. The public health efforts of the 19th and early 20th centuries were all oriented towards combating communicable disease. We fought that battle and we won that battle, but what we face now is a far greater challenge. Combating lifestyle diseases caused by smoking, obesity and a lack of exercise is more difficult, and by some orders of magnitude. It's all about behaviour change and I don't think any state or organisation really has the answer.


That would be a viable solution, but I'm not sure on the numbers of staff required. Data published last week shows that between September 2009 and February 2022, the number of FTE posts in 'Chiropody and Podiatry' fell from 3,110 to 2,639. Not only is that a decrease of 15%, when accounting for population increase, there are 20% fewer podiatrists per person in 2022 than in 2009. This is despite the % of the population over 65 increasing. This is despite the population prevalence of diabetes increasing.


You absolutely can and should criticise the NHS when it hasn't done the right thing in terms of patient care. If you don't criticise things, they don't improve.

My gripe and I'm sure the gripe of others is with people making entirely baseless criticisms of the service, or expecting it to be able to provide services that it simply isn't being funded to provide. That criticism should be levelled at the state, and specifically the Conservative Party who have been in charge of the NHS for 12 years and are ultimately responsible for making sure it is adequately resourced.

Is that registered podiatrists ie on the register for allied health professionals or is it NHS jobs? Many podiatrists have now opted to work privately rather than in the NHS. My podiatrist was very vocal about the role of NHS podiatrists and the inability to get patients referred. She was particularly angry about the treatment of diabetics during covid.
 
Be a bit weird if anyone's opinion had stayed the same considering all the things that have happened since this started two and a half years ago. Gone from Armageddon to it's nowt but a cold and back again with every stop in between. Let's face it, even the virus has sort of changed its mind...nah let's try this variety on those human thingies...for a few months anyhow
 
My opinion on this matter is irrelevant. I don't have a medical degree plus years of experience to back it up.

I wouldn't dream of telling an electrician/plumber/gas fitter/lawyer/accountant how to do their job and I definitely would not contradict a doctor.


There's only one person on that group whose opinion I don't respect unconditionally. See if you can guess who.
So I got a day off. and rather than nail my bollocks to the door, I decided to look at your group of around a thousand doctors to see if I could guess which one you don't trust.

Oxford Concise Dictionary: noun Anorak, keybuk...
So I got a day off. and rather than nail my bollocks to the door, I decided to look at your group of around a thousand doctors to see if I could guess which one you don't trust.

Oxford Concise Dictionary: noun Anorak, keybuk...
ps. if I get it wrong, do I get another go?
 
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on covid in the last few months as in there were those who were obsessed with locking down face masks etc. etc. and blindly following rules and the ones on the total other side of the spectrum the Conspiracy theorists etc. plus those in the middle

i have just checked the entry requirements for my holiday booking there and you don't even need to have been vaccinated anymore
I still carry a mask with me, although now I only tend to use it in larger gatherings of people which I tend to avoid at the moment anyway. Still suffering with 'long-covid' symptoms so until they all are taken care of I will continue to be extra vigilant.
 
I thought both of those were down to central government and not NHS?

If you compare like with like the NHS is consistently rated as one of the most efficient health care providers

You cant compare it to any other private business - the most privately run health care is in the US and its the most bloated expensive system with relatively poor outcomes for the population

I saw one of my patients who was in the states for the Winter and had palpitations went to ER for 2 hours had an ECG and labs - $8000 was the cost

He'll reply until pointed out he's wrong. Replies will get shorter and more obtuse before just leaving the thread.
 

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