WHD
Striker
Basically yes. My initial interest in the neighbouring property was to buy it, extend it for minimal outlay using my wall, then sell it on.
This is the less risk and less effort option.
Has anyone ever "sold" half their party wall to their neighbour?
- Thread starter WHD
- Start date
This is the less risk and less effort option.
Hardyman's Yugo
Striker
I'll take a guess that those figures arent correct. Would have thought one wall would cost less when they are already on site doing the other building work.
Say it is though, its sounds a lot of hassle to save 5k when you're already spending a fortune on that size extension.
I'd also guess a detached house would be worth more than 5k to it being made a semi. I'd rather spend 5k and not have to worry about hearing the neighbours or any noise disputes from being attached.
No chance I'd be paying it.
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WHD
Striker
Okay, I didn't think a party wall had to join onto a neighbouring building. If that isn't the case, in this scenario it would become a party wall.
Hardyman's Yugo
Striker
As I said if it is wholly on your land and your neighbour has no right of support from it then it isn’t a party wall.
Going back to your first post, is the issue that are you thinking of allowing the neighbour to take support from it? If yes then I understand what you are trying to achieve. That would need you to sell a part of your property and simultaneously have a party wall agreement for works your neighbour may want to do. If I was your neighbour I’d want to know what additional loads the wall could support, something that would cost them in engineers fees. Simpler to build up to it, they are only losing 100mm approx
To add to my previous post check that the neighbour doesn’t have a right of support from the wall anyhow. Is it possible that part of their house was formerly supported from the wall, now demolished though?
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Pnematic
Midfield
That’s some generalisation.
There’s good and bad in all trades and professions.
That said some architects might be good designers but have little or no knowledge of the structural or technical implications of their work. They give the profession a bad name - I ve redesigned dozens of buildings that have received planning permission but simply don’t work.
Wilfy
Striker
Of course it’s a generalisation, this is the SMB. I love the way your lot invent new sizes of materials just by drawing a box with a cross in it.
Pnematic
Midfield
It’s not a party wall - it’s an external “ gable “ wall and will have thermal properties as its exposed to the elements.
A party wall or “ separating “ wall is one between 2 different dwellings and has acoustic and fire properties ( and nowadays some thermal characteristics).
Even if the neighbours agreed that the wall could be centreline boundary ( with a view to a future extension by the other neighbours) it remains an external wall until that neighbour extends as well. At that stage it “separates “ 2 different dwellings and becomes a party wall and attracts legistion associated with a party wall.
I ll give it a try ......
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WHD
Striker
It would be simpler to build on to it, I have seen it done before and it does save a lot of time and effort. I have the original design for the foundations so getting a structural engineer to check them shouldn't be a problem. They would lose around 300mm if they didn't utilise it, because surely building a cavity up against it would still require my permission? They would have to abut it with a full cavity wall to be completely independent. You need to consider the space at the side of the house is only around 2.3 meters.
No, they houses are semi detached. The house in question is the non adjoining neighbour, I have extended my property to the side up to the boundary in between the houses.
This is where I got the information from regarding paying 50% of the present day costs:
Why you have to pay to use your neighbour’s wall? | Party Wall London | Seven One Associates
Why do you have to pay for your neighbour's wall? Are you looking for a party wall specialist? We at Seven One Associates are here to help from our specialist Party Wall Surveyor in London.
www.sevenoneassociatesltd.co.uk
" If your neighbours are building a new wall which is built equally on the boundary then you will have the right to enclose upon it in the future should you wish to build an extension. The total cost of building the wall includes the materials and labour costs of the wall and its foundations will have to be paid to the property owner whom built the wall in present-day costs at due proportion. The cost is usually at 50% of the proportion of the wall that is being enclosed upon calculated by the Surveyors. Of course, this naturally leads to a 50% saving as the flank wall is being utilised dispite the payment of 50% to the neighbour."
Okay, fair enough. Looking at the descriptions below, I assumed my wall was currently type A , but reading it again, as it is wholly on my land, it wouldn't go into that category. I believe it would I become type B if the neighbour built onto it. But regardless of that, my point wasn't really about if it is currently a party wall or not, rather has anyone ever paid for or received payment to utilise a neighbouring wall?
The Party Wall Act 1996 looks at two different types of Party Walls:
- Type A is when a wall stands astride the boundary of the land which belongs to two or more different owners. This can include walls which are separating terraced or semi-detached houses (known as the party wall) or between two gardens in masonry (known as a party fence wall).
- Type B is when the wall stands on one owners land but is used by two or more owners to separate their building. For example this includes where one neighbour has a building structure that leans against a wall that is owned by the other neighbour.
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Napoleon Dynamite
Striker
Poor neighbours 
Hardyman's Yugo
Striker
Ok, understood what you are thinking of now.It would be simpler to build on to it, I have seen it done before and it does save a lot of time and effort. I have the original design for the foundations so getting a structural engineer to check them shouldn't be a problem. They would lose around 300mm if they didn't utilise it, because surely building a cavity up against it would still require my permission? They would have to abut it with a full cavity wall to be completely independent. You need to consider the space at the side of the house is only around 2.3 meters.
No, they houses are semi detached. The house in question is the non adjoining neighbour, I have extended my property to the side up to the boundary in between the houses.
This is where I got the information from regarding paying 50% of the present day costs:
Why you have to pay to use your neighbour’s wall? | Party Wall London | Seven One Associates
Why do you have to pay for your neighbour's wall? Are you looking for a party wall specialist? We at Seven One Associates are here to help from our specialist Party Wall Surveyor in London.
" If your neighbours are building a new wall which is built equally on the boundary then you will have the right to enclose upon it in the future should you wish to build an extension. The total cost of building the wall includes the materials and labour costs of the wall and its foundations will have to be paid to the property owner whom built the wall in present-day costs at due proportion. The cost is usually at 50% of the proportion of the wall that is being enclosed upon calculated by the Surveyors. Of course, this naturally leads to a 50% saving as the flank wall is being utilised dispite the payment of 50% to the neighbour."
Okay, fair enough. Looking at the descriptions below, I assumed my wall was currently type A , but reading it again, as it is wholly on my land, it wouldn't go into that category. I believe it would I become type B if the neighbour built onto it. But regardless of that, my point wasn't really about if it is currently a party wall or not, rather has anyone ever paid for or received payment to utilise a neighbouring wall?
The Party Wall Act 1996 looks at two different types of Party Walls:
- Type A is when a wall stands astride the boundary of the land which belongs to two or more different owners. This can include walls which are separating terraced or semi-detached houses (known as the party wall) or between two gardens in masonry (known as a party fence wall).
- Type B is when the wall stands on one owners land but is used by two or more owners to separate their building. For example this includes where one neighbour has a building structure that leans against a wall that is owned by the other neighbour.
It would be simpler to build on to it, I have seen it done before and it does save a lot of time and effort. I have the original design for the foundations so getting a structural engineer to check them shouldn't be a problem. They would lose around 300mm if they didn't utilise it, because surely building a cavity up against it would still require my permission? They would have to abut it with a full cavity wall to be completely independent. You need to consider the space at the side of the house is only around 2.3 meters.
No, they houses are semi detached. The house in question is the non adjoining neighbour, I have extended my property to the side up to the boundary in between the houses.
This is where I got the information from regarding paying 50% of the present day costs:
Why you have to pay to use your neighbour’s wall? | Party Wall London | Seven One Associates
Why do you have to pay for your neighbour's wall? Are you looking for a party wall specialist? We at Seven One Associates are here to help from our specialist Party Wall Surveyor in London.
" If your neighbours are building a new wall which is built equally on the boundary then you will have the right to enclose upon it in the future should you wish to build an extension. The total cost of building the wall includes the materials and labour costs of the wall and its foundations will have to be paid to the property owner whom built the wall in present-day costs at due proportion. The cost is usually at 50% of the proportion of the wall that is being enclosed upon calculated by the Surveyors. Of course, this naturally leads to a 50% saving as the flank wall is being utilised dispite the payment of 50% to the neighbour."
Okay, fair enough. Looking at the descriptions below, I assumed my wall was currently type A , but reading it again, as it is wholly on my land, it wouldn't go into that category. I believe it would I become type B if the neighbour built onto it. But regardless of that, my point wasn't really about if it is currently a party wall or not, rather has anyone ever paid for or received payment to utilise a neighbouring wall?
The Party Wall Act 1996 looks at two different types of Party Walls:
- Type A is when a wall stands astride the boundary of the land which belongs to two or more different owners. This can include walls which are separating terraced or semi-detached houses (known as the party wall) or between two gardens in masonry (known as a party fence wall).
- Type B is when the wall stands on one owners land but is used by two or more owners to separate their building. For example this includes where one neighbour has a building structure that leans against a wall that is owned by the other neighbour.
Another consideration; would you not devalue your property but more than £5k by changing it from a semi to a terrace? The gap between houses could be 50mm of half a mile, it’s largely irrelevant once it’s not there any longer.
WHD
Striker
If the neighbour was to extend and not utilise my wall, they would build their own wall up against it (there isn't enough room to extend and leave a gap), so in effect we would end up with a 600mm wide party wall instead of 300mm.
Any comments on the link I posted?
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ilovehorswill
Striker
Imagine moving in only to have OP come over to make his sales pitchPoor neighbours
“Alreet! I’ve got a wall. Can you say it’s ours so you can pay me?”
Pnematic
Midfield
In my experience owners have either agreed to allow the wall to be utilised without payment ( or at least the “ extending “neighbours bear the cost of any upgrades to party wall standards).
Or the extending neighbours don’t actually want to be connected, or have fallen out with their neighbours and wouldn’t get permission anyway- therefore they extend totally independent of the existing neighbouring structure.
I ve never experienced any financial deal.
It’s not as if you have a ransom on the neighbours , totally preventing them from extending , albeit they will loose some width - they could compensate by going out further than your rear wall. In effect they have satisfactory alternatives without paying you.
99% of these situations are resolved by goodwill and a crate of decent ale .
In theory you neighbours would only have to build a 50 mm cavity and 100 mmdense block inner leaf to bring the wall up to party standards - that said their new inner leaf would have to be tied to your existing outer leaf.
In effect piggybacking some of the existing characteristics of your external wall to create a party wall.
In this theoretical scenario both roofs would need to connect for weatherproofing ( over the new walls” and fire stopping would be required to underside of roof and in any connecting eaves box cavity at the rear.
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Hardyman's Yugo
Striker
I have never personally dealt with a case where the adjoining owner has paid for the rights to support from a wall but what is described in that article is pretty much as my earlier post #66
Just to say as well that as it currently stands your wall doesn’t appear to fit into type A or B, as I said earlier it appears the wall is wholly yours.
Has your neighbour expressed an interest in extending their property?
Always difficult to understand party wall matters unless there is a drawing or photographs. Even then site features can put a different slant on things
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BigPete
Striker
Proper j
Sir Lancelot
Striker
It would be simpler to build on to it, I have seen it done before and it does save a lot of time and effort. I have the original design for the foundations so getting a structural engineer to check them shouldn't be a problem. They would lose around 300mm if they didn't utilise it, because surely building a cavity up against it would still require my permission? They would have to abut it with a full cavity wall to be completely independent. You need to consider the space at the side of the house is only around 2.3 meters.
No, they houses are semi detached. The house in question is the non adjoining neighbour, I have extended my property to the side up to the boundary in between the houses.
This is where I got the information from regarding paying 50% of the present day costs:
Why you have to pay to use your neighbour’s wall? | Party Wall London | Seven One Associates
Why do you have to pay for your neighbour's wall? Are you looking for a party wall specialist? We at Seven One Associates are here to help from our specialist Party Wall Surveyor in London.
" If your neighbours are building a new wall which is built equally on the boundary then you will have the right to enclose upon it in the future should you wish to build an extension. The total cost of building the wall includes the materials and labour costs of the wall and its foundations will have to be paid to the property owner whom built the wall in present-day costs at due proportion. The cost is usually at 50% of the proportion of the wall that is being enclosed upon calculated by the Surveyors. Of course, this naturally leads to a 50% saving as the flank wall is being utilised dispite the payment of 50% to the neighbour."
Okay, fair enough. Looking at the descriptions below, I assumed my wall was currently type A , but reading it again, as it is wholly on my land, it wouldn't go into that category. I believe it would I become type B if the neighbour built onto it. But regardless of that, my point wasn't really about if it is currently a party wall or not, rather has anyone ever paid for or received payment to utilise a neighbouring wall?
The Party Wall Act 1996 looks at two different types of Party Walls:
- Type A is when a wall stands astride the boundary of the land which belongs to two or more different owners. This can include walls which are separating terraced or semi-detached houses (known as the party wall) or between two gardens in masonry (known as a party fence wall).
- Type B is when the wall stands on one owners land but is used by two or more owners to separate their building. For example this includes where one neighbour has a building structure that leans against a wall that is owned by the other neighbour.
Your wall isn’t ‘astride’ the boundary. It just comes up to the boundary. If it were astride the boundary then you would have nicked some of the neighbours land. Yours is Type B.
Sinbad Skullhead
Central Defender
Being in the building game myself i can understand what you mean. There is this whole scam of someone being able to use CAD calling themselves an architect or at least the client believes they are (theyre cheap) hand over to the builder and you have no padstone sizes, steel sizes etc. How many of these are RIBA qualified? Or do you even need to be to get some drawings passed by the council?
