Halifax Grooming Gang

Sam Handwich said:
Well said mate. Some just don't want to hear it. Would like to see just how many have been convicted this century
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What's weird is the denial of it.

This is what I find so fascinating, the contortions people put themselves in to try and make it so that Islam doesn't take any blame.

Whether it's grooming gangs, terrorist attacks or Isis.... look at the rubbish some of them post to justify it. It's beyond baffling.

And yet the same people appear to lose their shit over much smaller infractions, certain right wingers saying mean things for example.... claiming to be holier than thou for everybodys rights and equality until the M or I word gets mentioned in being against those rights then it's woah.... that's racist!!!

Imagine if I started a thread saying I want gays to be locked up just for being gay.

What kind of reaction would that get? It's be pages of abuse.

Wheras if you post 52% of british muslims according to Pew research are in favour of this..... either gets ignored or "it's such a shame", "we need to do more".....

It's so, so, weird the regressive leftist mindset..... but great fun to pick apart ;)
 


Aituk7 said:
You shouldn't have bothered. The stats are all out there.

You're missing the point. No one's saying we should focus on some paedophiles instead of others. I'm sure no one likes any paedophiles.

The point is when you have your typical paedo, he hides it from everyone he knows, this is not something that goes on in polite society.

In the case of grooming gangs, it's brothers, cousins, fathers and sons.... their families know about it, their friend will too. It's the mindset behind it.

More and more evidence is coming forward suggesting the reason behind this way of thinking is to do with religion.... and for some reason.... can't quite put my finger on it.... the regressive retards on this board have a real problem calling out this problem.

The catholic church covered up their grooming scandal, it was beyond disgraceful , the pope at the time should have been in the dock at the hague imo..... no one has a problem saying that is a catholic phenomonem.... this has lots of evidence pointing towards an islamic phenomonem..... but for some reason again........ just cant quite work out what the issue is...... hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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You're very wrong, I did some of the early research in to this. There is no link between the likelihood of someone being a perpetrator and their religion. What we found was that perpetrators seek out situations where they can operate, Scout Master, Priest, Nursery Nurse, Coach. However, that doesn't mean your average person in those roles is an abuser, just abusers target (or used to) those roles.

Recently, the processes and safeguards in a lot of those roles have been tightened up significantly and we've seen a big drop in abuse rates in those professions (recent not historical abuse). We don't have fewer abusers, we're just seeing less of them either target those professions or stay in those professions due to the safeguards. This isn't to say the safeguards are perfect, they're just way better than they used to be.

Initial stats also showed us that their was a link between socio-economic status and abuse, however when we dug deeper into that we just saw that it was easier to detect abuse in the lower group due to the fact they had more interactions with various agencies for other reasons (e.g. Social workers). There is no accepted evidence to say this is linked to the mindset of a Muslim.

It's clear there are abusers within the Islamic faith and this often manifests itself in gangs, however the total prevalence of detected abuse in that faith is not disproportionate. What we do see is the right wing papers and people like Tommy Robinson whipping up the public to further their anti-Islamic views.

So when you say "I'm sure if they all turn out to be muslim men it's just a coincidence" - you fall into that right wing trap. Yes, it is wrong but so is all the other abuse that is going on. And the original point I made still stands, if you're looking for a group of people then the overwhelming group is men. Substantially more men abuse than women, so why don't you target them as they make up 85% of abuse. Men are the problem, not Muslim men or white men or black men, but men from all walks of life, statistically those who have been abused themselves.
 
Aituk7 said:
What's weird is the denial of it.

This is what I find so fascinating, the contortions people put themselves in to try and make it so that Islam doesn't take any blame.

Whether it's grooming gangs, terrorist attacks or Isis.... look at the rubbish some of them post to justify it. It's beyond baffling.

And yet the same people appear to lose their shit over much smaller infractions, certain right wingers saying mean things for example.... claiming to be holier than thou for everybodys rights and equality until the M or I word gets mentioned in being against those rights then it's woah.... that's racist!!!

Imagine if I started a thread saying I want gays to be locked up just for being gay.

What kind of reaction would that get? It's be pages of abuse.

Wheras if you post 52% of british muslims according to Pew research are in favour of this..... either gets ignored or "it's such a shame", "we need to do more".....

It's so, so, weird the regressive leftist mindset..... but great fun to pick apart ;)
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See my post above, the reason people don't blame Islam is due to the fact their isn't a link. The vast majority of Muslims are decent people, each religion has their nut jobs but your view of the average Muslim is very wrong and twisted. Can I ask how many do you personally know well?
 
Hep said:
You're very wrong, I did some of the early research in to this. There is no link between the likelihood of someone being a perpetrator and their religion. What we found was that perpetrators seek out situations where they can operate, Scout Master, Priest, Nursery Nurse, Coach. However, that doesn't mean your average person in those roles is an abuser, just abusers target (or used to) those roles.

Recently, the processes and safeguards in a lot of those roles have been tightened up significantly and we've seen a big drop in abuse rates in those professions (recent not historical abuse). We don't have fewer abusers, we're just seeing less of them either target those professions or stay in those professions due to the safeguards. This isn't to say the safeguards are perfect, they're just way better than they used to be.

Initial stats also showed us that their was a link between socio-economic status and abuse, however when we dug deeper into that we just saw that it was easier to detect abuse in the lower group due to the fact they had more interactions with various agencies for other reasons (e.g. Social workers). There is no accepted evidence to say this is linked to the mindset of a Muslim.

It's clear there are abusers within the Islamic faith and this often manifests itself in gangs, however the total prevalence of detected abuse in that faith is not disproportionate. What we do see is the right wing papers and people like Tommy Robinson whipping up the public to further their anti-Islamic views.

So when you say "I'm sure if they all turn out to be muslim men it's just a coincidence" - you fall into that right wing trap. Yes, it is wrong but so is all the other abuse that is going on. And the original point I made still stands, if you're looking for a group of people then the overwhelming group is men. Substantially more men abuse than women, so why don't you target them as they make up 85% of abuse. Men are the problem, not Muslim men or white men or black men, but men from all walks of life, statistically those who have been abused themselves.
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That just reads as someone attempting to defend themselves by using statistics in order to say "we had no idea this was happening".
 
Hep said:
You're very wrong, I did some of the early research in to this. There is no link between the likelihood of someone being a perpetrator and their religion. What we found was that perpetrators seek out situations where they can operate, Scout Master, Priest, Nursery Nurse, Coach. However, that doesn't mean your average person in those roles is an abuser, just abusers target (or used to) those roles.

Recently, the processes and safeguards in a lot of those roles have been tightened up significantly and we've seen a big drop in abuse rates in those professions (recent not historical abuse). We don't have fewer abusers, we're just seeing less of them either target those professions or stay in those professions due to the safeguards. This isn't to say the safeguards are perfect, they're just way better than they used to be.

Initial stats also showed us that their was a link between socio-economic status and abuse, however when we dug deeper into that we just saw that it was easier to detect abuse in the lower group due to the fact they had more interactions with various agencies for other reasons (e.g. Social workers). There is no accepted evidence to say this is linked to the mindset of a Muslim.

It's clear there are abusers within the Islamic faith and this often manifests itself in gangs, however the total prevalence of detected abuse in that faith is not disproportionate. What we do see is the right wing papers and people like Tommy Robinson whipping up the public to further their anti-Islamic views.

So when you say "I'm sure if they all turn out to be muslim men it's just a coincidence" - you fall into that right wing trap. Yes, it is wrong but so is all the other abuse that is going on. And the original point I made still stands, if you're looking for a group of people then the overwhelming group is men. Substantially more men abuse than women, so why don't you target them as they make up 85% of abuse. Men are the problem, not Muslim men or white men or black men, but men from all walks of life, statistically those who have been abused themselves.
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What a mess of a post again. Half of this has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about and the other half is just completely made up nonsense.

Hep said:
See my post above, the reason people don't blame Islam is due to the fact their isn't a link. The vast majority of Muslims are decent people, each religion has their nut jobs but your view of the average Muslim is very wrong and twisted. Can I ask how many do you personally know well?
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I've never said anything about the average Muslim..... in fact I've specifically said multiple times that this is not a representation of all Muslims.

You just pick shit out of the air and run with it whether it makes sense, gas any relevance or neither....

dangermows said:
We still arguing the text in the Quran makes them rape, and if it wasn't in there they wouldn't rape, even though they take no notice of other bits which say what is and isn't allowed?
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I'm sure you know better than the victims... other imams.... the Swedish security services.... the man who broke this story.
 
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Aituk7 said:
What a mess of a post again. Half of this has absolutely nothing to do with what we are talking about and the other half is just completely made up nonsense.


I've never said anything about the average Muslim..... in fact I've specifically said multiple times that this is not a representation of all Muslims.

You just pick shit out of the air and run with it whether it makes sense, gas any relevance or neither....


I'm sure you know better than the victims... other imams.... the Swedish security services.... the man who broke this story.
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Bu it's not made up nonsense, it's accepted facts. I used to work with some of the leading minds in this field and still speak to a number of them.

Why post a story specifically about muslims then if you're not out to have a pop at just that religion. Your original post targets Muslims like some Tommy Robinson wannabe, yet when faced with actual research you get all defensive.

Laeotaekhun said:
That just reads as someone attempting to defend themselves by using statistics in order to say "we had no idea this was happening".
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When I worked in this field, we knew about all detected cases, we had an exact idea what was happening. Muslims are not the problem.
 
Hep said:
Bu it's not made up nonsense, it's accepted facts. I used to work with some of the leading minds in this field and still speak to a number of them.

Why post a story specifically about muslims then if you're not out to have a pop at just that religion. Your original post targets Muslims like some Tommy Robinson wannabe, yet when faced with actual research you get all defensive.
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I don't believe this for a second.

I also don't have a clue what "actual research" you are referring to that flies in the face of anything I have said.

instead of wasting your time rambling on about nowt again... how about we pick up on just one point at a time.

"There is no link between the likelihood of someone being a perpetrator and their religion."

Do you have any stats to back that up you can actually link?

Because the quilliam foundation says over 84% of grooming gang members are muslim pakastiani and bangladeshi.

Like I've said before and I will repeat again, most muslims are not paedophiles, don't support paedophilia or grooming gangs..... but most grooming gang members are muslims.
 
Aituk7 said:
I don't believe this for a second.

I also don't have a clue what "actual research" you are referring to that flies in the face of anything I have said.

instead of wasting your time rambling on about nowt again... how about we pick up on just one point at a time.

"There is no link between the likelihood of someone being a perpetrator and their religion."

Do you have any stats to back that up you can actually link?

Because the quilliam foundation says over 84% of grooming gang members are muslim pakastiani and bangladeshi.

Like I've said before and I will repeat again, most muslims are not paedophiles, don't support paedophilia or grooming gangs..... but most grooming gang members are muslims.
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As I said before abuse manifest itself in gangs more in Muslim groups but OVERALL abuse figures do not support a SIGNIFICANT link to religion.

Here's some detailed numbers..

Proportion of adults who experienced sexual assault during childhood
Christian 6.9%
Buddhist 13.1%
Hindu 2.9%
Muslim 1.9%
Sikh 4.0%
Other 12.1%

and some key quotes...

White, or mixed multiple ethnic groups, were more likely than other ethnic groups to report any childhood abuse (20% and 24% respectively) compared with Asian (11%), Black (15%), and other ethnic groups (11%).

Source: ONS - https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/pe...esabuseduringchildhoodyearendingmarch2016.xls

Now please, have an open mind and read what I hope will be a trusted source and come to some new conclusions. Abuse in gangs does have prevalence in the groups you mention but overall abuse is actually lower in the Muslim community,
 
Aituk7 said:
I don't believe this for a second.

I also don't have a clue what "actual research" you are referring to that flies in the face of anything I have said.

instead of wasting your time rambling on about nowt again... how about we pick up on just one point at a time.

"There is no link between the likelihood of someone being a perpetrator and their religion."

Do you have any stats to back that up you can actually link?

Because the quilliam foundation says over 84% of grooming gang members are muslim pakastiani and bangladeshi.

Like I've said before and I will repeat again, most muslims are not paedophiles, don't support paedophilia or grooming gangs..... but most grooming gang members are muslims.
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So what are you suggesting then?
 
Hep said:
As I said before abuse manifest itself in gangs more in Muslim groups but OVERALL abuse figures do not support a SIGNIFICANT link to religion.

Here's some detailed numbers..

Proportion of adults who experienced sexual assault during childhood
Christian 6.9%
Buddhist 13.1%
Hindu 2.9%
Muslim 1.9%
Sikh 4.0%
Other 12.1%

and some key quotes...

White, or mixed multiple ethnic groups, were more likely than other ethnic groups to report any childhood abuse (20% and 24% respectively) compared with Asian (11%), Black (15%), and other ethnic groups (11%).

Source: ONS - https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/pe...esabuseduringchildhoodyearendingmarch2016.xls

Now please, have an open mind and read what I hope will be a trusted source and come to some new conclusions. Abuse in gangs does have prevalence in the groups you mention but overall abuse is actually lower in the Muslim community,
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Well no one is denying that.

We're talking about this phenomona of grooming gangs across the country.

Are you lost? Did you not see the thread title and the op?

Lewberry pie said:
So what are you suggesting then?
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I'm past the point of suggesting.

There's enough evidence to back it up.

Muslims are over represented in grooming gangs, this wasn't dealt with properly for years thanks to political correctness, we aren't even close to the end of it and the victims are already in the tens of thousands.

The major problem is though that usually paedophiles have to operate in the dark, they can't tell friends and family about what they want to get up to.

In these communities it's been a gang of approx. 10-50 every time, they have been related to each other, fathers, sons, brothers, cousins.... so families and friends knew this was going on and yet no one reported any of it. When the wives or sisters have been asked about it they've said the girls bring it on themselves.

Islam plays a significant part in how these people think, their views of women and in particular non-muslim women. For some reason... again I'm just lost for exactly why.... quite a few people seem to have a real problem accepting that fact.
 
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Aituk7 said:
Well no one is denying that.

We're talking about this phenomona of grooming gangs across the country.

Are you lost? Did you not see the thread title and the op?
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And my point was why focus on gangs, why ignore all the other abuse? The amount of 'gang' posts on here far outweighs any other abuse posts. It comes across like Tommy Robinson, blaming Islam for everything, when the stats clearly show there is less abuse amongst Muslims.

It's sounds crass when you pick a single news article and then have a go a their religion.

...and you did deny it.

"I don't believe this for a second.

I also don't have a clue what "actual research" you are referring to that flies in the face of anything I have said."
 
Aituk7 said:
Well no one is denying that.

We're talking about this phenomona of grooming gangs across the country.

Are you lost? Did you not see the thread title and the op?


I'm past the point of suggesting.

There's enough evidence to back it up.

Muslims are over represented in grooming gangs, this wasn't dealt with properly for years thanks to political correctness, we aren't even close to the end of it and the victims are already in the tens of thousands.

The major problem is though that usually paedophiles have to operate in the dark, they can't tell friends and family about what they want to get up to.

In these communities it's been a gang of approx. 10-50 every time, they have been related to each other, fathers, sons, brothers, cousins.... so families and friends knew this was going on and yet no one reported any of it. When the wives or sisters have been asked about it they've said the girls bring it on themselves.

Islam plays a significant part in how these people think, their views of women and in particular non-muslim women. For some reason... again I'm just lost for exactly why.... quite a few people seem to have a real problem accepting that fact.
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I understand that grooming gangs are more often than not Muslims or Asians but what point are you aftuactu trying to make?

That Islam institutionally approves of rape and peadophilia? That all Asian men should be expelled from the UK or killed.
 
Hep said:
And my point was why focus on gangs, why ignore all the other abuse? The amount of 'gang' posts on here far outweighs any other abuse posts. It comes across like Tommy Robinson, blaming Islam for everything, when the stats clearly show there is less abuse amongst Muslims.

It's sounds crass when you pick a single news article and then have a go a their religion.

...and you did deny it.

"I don't believe this for a second.

I also don't have a clue what "actual research" you are referring to that flies in the face of anything I have said."
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That post was such a rambling piece of nonsense I didn't know which bit to start with first. Now you've clarified what you meant on that one point I can categorically say I'm not denying it.

The reason the amount of gang posts outweigh other abuse posts is because when someone goes Oh isn't that white paedophile awful..... no one goes you're a f***ing racist piece of shit!!!!


When we discuss why the same M.O is appearing en masse across this country.... they do... and they deny one of the major reasons behind it.

Lewberry pie said:
I understand that grooming gangs are more often than not Muslims or Asians but what point are you aftuactu trying to make?

That Islam institutionally approves of rape and peadophilia? That all Asian men should be expelled from the UK or killed.
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Well Islam in its texts does approve of rape and paedophilia. It's got nothing to do with being asian... being asian doesn't affect your mind set....
 
Aituk7 said:
That post was such a rambling piece of nonsense I didn't know which bit to start with first. Now you've clarified what you meant on that one point I can categorically say I'm not denying it.

The reason the amount of gang posts outweigh other abuse posts is because when someone goes Oh isn't that white paedophile awful..... no one goes you're a f***ing racist piece of shit!!!!


When we discuss why the same M.O is appearing en masse across this country.... they do... and they deny one of the major reasons behind it.


Well Islam in its texts does approve of rape and paedophilia. It's got nothing to do with being asian... being asian doesn't affect your mind set....
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Show me
 
Hep said:
When I worked in this field, we knew about all detected cases, we had an exact idea what was happening. Muslims are not the problem.
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It seems, though, that you (and those in your field) chose to do nothing about what you knew to be factual.

That, to me, makes you (and your fellows) equally as guilty as those convicted!
 
I went to an art college after leaving school at 16 in the 70s about 80 % percent of white girls were flocking to lads from a different race. What does that tell you?
 

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