Grayson apologists


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I haven't been outed as anything. I've always admitted to being a Leeds fan who's hated Grayson for years because he did a terrible job despite how people spin things to make him look good.

4 promotions

2 successive 11th place finishes in the championship with PNE (on the lowest budget in the league)

Sunderland sacked SG on 31 October.

Nearly two months later they're still in the bottom 3.

That suggests my friend that the problems here go a lot deeper than Simon Grayson's management
 
4 promotions

2 successive 11th place finishes in the championship with PNE (on the lowest budget in the league)

Sunderland sacked SG on 31 October.

Nearly two months later they're still in the bottom 3.

That suggests my friend that the problems here go a lot deeper than Simon Grayson's management
I think the problem isn't deep at all marra. The players, collectively, aren't up to it. Why they aren't up to it is more difficult to answer. Let's see what happens in the latter half of the season - if Coleman is able to effect any meaningful changes in the playing staff.
 
4 promotions

2 successive 11th place finishes in the championship with PNE (on the lowest budget in the league)

Sunderland sacked SG on 31 October.

Nearly two months later they're still in the bottom 3.

That suggests my friend that the problems here go a lot deeper than Simon Grayson's management
Right turn Clive

Eh? Grayson got us promoted playing some of the best attacking football we'd had in years. It only started to unravel for him once Bates started selling players under his nose and didn't replace them with quality.

You lot didn't have a proper pre season (something so important in this slog of a league) or anything like a transfer budget. And you wonder why you're shite?
Larry is a 3rd tier manager at best, completely out of his depth here. Leeds is a rugby town, the pressures aren’t the same.
 
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Right turn Clive


Larry is a 3rd tier manager at best, completely out of his depth here. Leeds is a rugby town, the pressures aren’t the same.

4 promotions from the third tier and finishes of 7th, 11th and 11th in the championship on shoestring budgets would suggest otherwise.

He was sacked too early here, it hadn't been going well but with time it would have turned around.

Sacking Grayson was an easy choice; shift the blame away from those running the club and those players not getting themselves into the right condition for football at this level or not concentrating when on the pitch.
 
4 promotions from the third tier and finishes of 7th, 11th and 11th in the championship on shoestring budgets would suggest otherwise.

He was sacked too early here, it hadn't been going well but with time it would have turned around.

Sacking Grayson was an easy choice; shift the blame away from those running the club and those players not getting themselves into the right condition for football at this level or not concentrating when on the pitch.
He was worse than Buxton, no shape, no idea, no respect, completely out of his depth and should never have been appointed. This I said from the start.
 
Eh?

Does it fuck.

He’s had a little whinge about Grayson as soon as we got a win, he’s gone a bit quiet since though.

He's entitled to have more than a little whinge with Grayson's record.

4 promotions

2 successive 11th place finishes in the championship with PNE (on the lowest budget in the league)

Sunderland sacked SG on 31 October.

Nearly two months later they're still in the bottom 3.

That suggests my friend that the problems here go a lot deeper than Simon Grayson's management

There's obviously problems at Sunderland otherwise they wouldn't have appointed Larry The Loser in the first place.
 
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He's entitled to have more than a little whinge with Grayson's record.



There's obviously problems at Sunderland otherwise they wouldn't have appointed Larry The Loser in the first place.

Care to explain how a man who has;
managed Leeds United,
won 4 promotions,
led Blackpool to their highest league position in 48 years,
built a top half championship team on the league's lowest budget with PNE,
led Leeds to their first win at Old Trafford in 30 years

is a loser.
 
Care to explain how a man who has;
managed Leeds United,
won 4 promotions,
led Blackpool to their highest league position in 48 years,
built a top half championship team on the league's lowest budget with PNE,
led Leeds to their first win at Old Trafford in 30 years

is a loser.

Tend to agree with you.
What really matters is what those in the business think of Simon, not opinions on the SMB, and his next managerial offer will confirm it.
 
4 promotions

2 successive 11th place finishes in the championship with PNE (on the lowest budget in the league)

Sunderland sacked SG on 31 October.

Nearly two months later they're still in the bottom 3.

That suggests my friend that the problems here go a lot deeper than Simon Grayson's management
The problem is much bigger than the manager but Grayson was woefully short of being able to get a grip of our lot
 
Time to retire from public life.

We have a long way to go of course.

But Coleman has shown immediately what basic organisation can do. He talked more sense in his first press conference than Grayson had all season.

Time and time again we get people saying it's the players not the manager.
It's nearly always the manager.


I thought Grayson was shite and can’t disagree there but your last comment is reaching a bit.

It’s nearly always the players, as soon as more than a handful decide they don’t want / like you.

You’re smoked and no amount of motivational team talks can turn that around.

Unfortunately for us we have a team full of shit bags that have done this on more than one occasion.

Hopefully Coleman gets shot of a lot of them and can build his own culture.
 
Can be a good manager but not right for Sunderland. Grayson will get another shot in the third division club aiming for a promotion and w young, hungry unknowns. And keep that squad that be built and promoted at mid level. Essentially PNE part II.

Dealing w ex PL players was obviously not his forte so he will go back to what he does well.
 
I thought Grayson was shite and can’t disagree there but your last comment is reaching a bit.

It’s nearly always the players, as soon as more than a handful decide they don’t want / like you.

You’re smoked and no amount of motivational team talks can turn that around.

Unfortunately for us we have a team full of shit bags that have done this on more than one occasion.

Hopefully Coleman gets shot of a lot of them and can build his own culture.

Exactly and anything other than a relegation battle was unrealistic for Sunderland this season with the squad they have.

Coleman needs to get rid of Kone, O'Shea, NDong, Gibson, Cattermole, Jones, Rodwell, Gooch, Matthews and build a proper Championship team.

But he will need time, patience and at least another two transfer windows to do this.

Sunderland had the right man for this rebuilding job given Grayson's record of signing young hungry players and developing them at Leeds and PNE but let the players off the hook and sacked Grayson.

Coleman needs to be given at least two seasons regardless of results, otherwise the circle will keep on turning with another manager and things will remain the same.

Can be a good manager but not right for Sunderland. Grayson will get another shot in the third division club aiming for a promotion and w young, hungry unknowns. And keep that squad that be built and promoted at mid level. Essentially PNE part II.

Dealing w ex PL players was obviously not his forte so he will go back to what he does well.

Not necessarily true, look at his work with McGeady at Preston.

More likely that Sunderland's players are incapable of performing well at this level of football.

Sunderland need to build a team of young hungry players, signing up and coming players from smaller championship clubs and lower leagues in the mould of Sheffield United or Bristol City.

This will take time but will lead to success.

I'm sure Grayson would accept now that Wilson, Williams, McGeady were not the right signings for Sunderland at the time.

Barkhuizen from PNE would have been a better option at the time but what kind of budget was available?

Exactly and anything other than a relegation battle was unrealistic for Sunderland this season with the squad they have.

Coleman needs to get rid of Kone, O'Shea, NDong, Gibson, Cattermole, Jones, Rodwell, Gooch, Matthews and build a proper Championship team.

But he will need time, patience and at least another two transfer windows to do this.

Sunderland had the right man for this rebuilding job given Grayson's record of signing young hungry players and developing them at Leeds and PNE but let the players off the hook and sacked Grayson.

Coleman needs to be given at least two seasons regardless of results, otherwise the circle will keep on turning with another manager and things will remain the same.



Not necessarily true, look at his work with McGeady at Preston.

More likely that Sunderland's players are incapable of performing well at this level of football.

Sunderland need to build a team of young hungry players, signing up and coming players from smaller championship clubs and lower leagues in the mould of Sheffield United or Bristol City.

This will take time but will lead to success.

I'm sure Grayson would accept now that Wilson, Williams, McGeady were not the right signings for Sunderland at the time.

Barkhuizen from PNE would have been a better option at the time but what kind of budget was available?

Whether Grayson really wanted Wilson and Williams is another question?
 
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Exactly and anything other than a relegation battle was unrealistic for Sunderland this season with the squad they have.

I don’t agree with this. The problem is the last 7 seasons of a losing mentality and constant mid season change with a new manager and then the cycle continues.

This coupled with the relief / relegation hangover the players struggled early on this season and then reverted back to type of being victims and accepting defeat.

This squad is more than capable enough of top half, challenging for the play offs.

How many formations have we had so far this season?

3?

4?

5?

Agree that Coleman needs to get rid and bring in his own players and build a style and create a culture that we won’t accept all of this half hearted effort towards games.

We’ve had too many players here for far too long that have been responsible for our decline.

Question is will it happen??

I’m not so sure and I think we’re in for more hurt before it gets better, imo
 
I do feel for him as he has proved relatively successful elsewhere and was let down by short in terms of his budget. All things considered I think he did ok in the transfer market considering his budget.

His shuffling of the team and defence was ultimately his downfall. He never once looked close to getting it right here. He had to go in the end.
 
Where I will defend Grayson is that I believe the performance against Sheffield United at the weekend indicated that the main problem this season (and perhaps for many seasons) has been the players. The squad is riddled with players who either don't care or are not good enough. There can be no doubt that the amount of money he was allowed to spend in the summer was a disgrace (especially given the sizeable fee we received for Pickford) but it seems that the funds he was given have been largely wasted. In particular the signings of Vaughan and Steele look more and more baffling as time goes on, McGeady looked okay up until a couple of months ago and perhaps the only thing preventing me writing him off is the relatively low transfer fee.

Somehow we have managed to go from a squad that wasn't good enough for the Premier League to a squad that isn't good enough for the Championship in the space of a few months.

Whatever happens this season I'd give Coleman time, let him try to ship out the likes of Kone and hopefully bring in players of the required ability to keep us up. The fact that we lack quality in almost every area of the pitch in this division is quite astonishing given we were a Premier League side for a decade.

I fear nothing will change under the current ownership, Martin Bain and Ellis Short are combining to sink this football club into the abyss.
 
4 promotions from the third tier and finishes of 7th, 11th and 11th in the championship on shoestring budgets would suggest otherwise.

He was sacked too early here, it hadn't been going well but with time it would have turned around.

Sacking Grayson was an easy choice; shift the blame away from those running the club and those players not getting themselves into the right condition for football at this level or not concentrating when on the pitch.


Surely the manager should have ensured the players were getting into the right condition, if the situation was managed.......... Tail wagging the dog means the head lost control so why did he not sort it, some of those your on about were his purchases. He tried and was not effective, would it have been better to keep him longer, well only time will tell......no hindsight at this stage of the season.
 
I don’t agree with this. The problem is the last 7 seasons of a losing mentality and constant mid season change with a new manager and then the cycle continues.

This coupled with the relief / relegation hangover the players struggled early on this season and then reverted back to type of being victims and accepting defeat.

This squad is more than capable enough of top half, challenging for the play offs.

How many formations have we had so far this season?

3?

4?

5?

Agree that Coleman needs to get rid and bring in his own players and build a style and create a culture that we won’t accept all of this half hearted effort towards games.

We’ve had too many players here for far too long that have been responsible for our decline.

Question is will it happen??

I’m not so sure and I think we’re in for more hurt before it gets better, imo

I still cannot comprehend how many Sunderland fans believe this to be the case.

The vast majority of Sunderland players are not physically fit enough or mentally strong enough to compete over the hard slog of a 46 game championship season.

Huddersfield finished in the play offs last season; with more or less the same squad of players they are now 11th in the Premier League, that group of players didn't even finish in the top two last season, the two teams they beat in play offs are now lower mid table in the championship.

There is far more quality, physical strength, fitness, running power, mental strength etc in the championship than you credit it with.

Sunderland are miles, miles behind the likes of Leeds, Bristol City, Sheffield United etc.

Surely the manager should have ensured the players were getting into the right condition, if the situation was managed.......... Tail wagging the dog means the head lost control so why did he not sort it, some of those your on about were his purchases. He tried and was not effective, would it have been better to keep him longer, well only time will tell......no hindsight at this stage of the season.

Can he do that and get rid of those who won't within 3 months.

Ndong and Kone started well then effort, concentration etc dipped massively.

O'Shea had to be brought in due to injuries but isn't physically or mentally strong enough anymore.

transfers were all more or less done on the cheap;

Grabban the only real success, McGeady/Vaughan have done ok, McManaman struggled for fitness, Wilson/Steele/Williams haven't really worked out

How many of those were actually Grayson's first choices??
 
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I still cannot comprehend how many Sunderland fans believe this to be the case.

The vast majority of Sunderland players are not physically fit enough or mentally strong enough to compete over the hard slog of a 46 game championship season.

Huddersfield finished in the play offs last season; with more or less the same squad of players they are now 11th in the Premier League, that group of players didn't even finish in the top two last season, the two teams they beat in play offs are now lower mid table in the championship.

There is far more quality, physical strength, fitness, running power, mental strength etc in the championship than you credit it with.

Sunderland are miles, miles behind the likes of Leeds, Bristol City, Sheffield United etc.



Can he do that and get rid of those who won't within 3 months.

Ndong and Kone started well then effort, concentration etc dipped massively.

O'Shea had to be brought in due to injuries but isn't physically or mentally strong enough anymore.

transfers were all more or less done on the cheap;

Grabban the only real success, McGeady/Vaughan have done ok, McManaman struggled for fitness, Wilson/Steele/Williams haven't really worked out

How many of those were actually Grayson's first choices??


I don't know, you tell me as you seem to have the inside information. I can then read that and look at both sides of the coin then make my mind up from that? I wait for the info and will respond once perused, digested and pondered.
 
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