Government ordered to release Hillsborough papers


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It was their job that day to control the crowd. That was why they were there. They failed. Not saying they deliberately failed, but that is unfortunately what happened through some very bad decisions.

Not sure I grasp your second point - Taylor recommended all seater stadia as simply the best way to ensure that such a tragedy would never happen again, not because he said the fans were to blame (his report clarly states they were not) but because he thought all seater stadia was the only way to guarantee that such a tragedy could not happen again. He wasn't just critical of the police in his report, but the facilities and safety of football stadia that were nearly a century old and needed to be brought up to date.

You can state taylor as much as you want squire, i could make hitler look like a stand up guy in a report if i missed a few important facts out, jesus he got nearly 100% employment, his army, navy and air force were shit hot and the roads in germany are among the worlds best, all good stuff!
 
That's not what he said.

Regardless of whether Taylor said that in the report or not, they had a statutory duty of care to the fans in terms of controlling the crowds that day and that they got safely into and out of the ground. That was their role.

The police, as far as I am aware, never claimed otherwise on this point. They obviously made up some stories as I mentioned earlier as to why they didn't, but they never claimed at the subsequent inquest that they had no responsibility for controlling the crowd as a defence of their actions that day.
 
You can state taylor as much as you want squire, i could make hitler look like a stand up guy in a report if i missed a few important facts out, jesus he got nearly 100% employment, his army, navy and air force were shit hot and the roads in germany are among the worlds best, all good stuff!

I'm still not convinced he was a "stand up guy" like, there's just too much evidence to the contrary. :lol:
 
You can state taylor as much as you want squire, i could make hitler look like a stand up guy in a report if i missed a few important facts out, jesus he got nearly 100% employment, his army, navy and air force were shit hot and the roads in germany are among the worlds best, all good stuff!

Erm, right.:confused:
 
Regardless of whether Taylor said that in the report or not, they had a statutory duty of care to the fans in terms of controlling the crowds that day and that they got safely into and out of the ground. That was their role.

The police, as far as I am aware, never claimed otherwise on this point. They obviously made up some stories as I mentioned earlier as to why they didn't, but they never claimed at the subsequent inquest that they had no responsibility for controlling the crowd as a defence of their actions that day.

The police fucked up that day .......... so did the Liverpool fans, not for the first time.
 
People in large crowds follow the flock , whether football fans, on a political demonstration or going to a royal wedding. It's called the herd mentality and quite simply it's impossible to act as an individual in the middle of a crowd. Simple physics more than psychology would dictate this.


So the fans were to blame????
 
So the fans were to blame????

The Taylor Report supports every aspect of my point.

"There were drunken Liverpool fans, there were ticketless Liverpool fans, there were fans who arrived late, there were no significant road works that delayed people, there were Liverpool fans who contributed to the tragedy."

All in the report and anyone who says otherwise is welcome to place a bet with me.

Read more: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=612015&page=21#ixzz1TRmWCjUR
 
The Taylor Report supports every aspect of my point.

"There were drunken Liverpool fans, there were ticketless Liverpool fans, there were fans who arrived late, there were no significant road works that delayed people, there were Liverpool fans who contributed to the tragedy."

All in the report and anyone who says otherwise is welcome to place a bet with me.

Read more: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=612015&page=21#ixzz1TRmWCjUR

Anyone who says the mass of fans that piled into sheffield that day wasn't responsible in one way shape or form is a f***ing idiot, let them blame the coppers and the club, at the end of the day if everyone used a little bit of common sense that day no one would have got so much as a f***ing wicklow!

This wasn't nazi's forcing people into trains with machine guns, this was thousands of grown men/women going to a football match with more than enough room to accomodate them on their own free will!
 
The Taylor Report supports every aspect of my point.

"There were drunken Liverpool fans, there were ticketless Liverpool fans, there were fans who arrived late, there were no significant road works that delayed people, there were Liverpool fans who contributed to the tragedy."

All in the report and anyone who says otherwise is welcome to place a bet with me.

Read more: http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=612015&page=21#ixzz1TRmWCjUR


Does it bollocks.

You made a cack handed attempt to highlight the bits that you think supported your argument and made a hash of it.

On more than one occasion you've highlighted a section that was diametrically opposite to the point you were trying to make.

The only thing you've proved on here is the fact that you struggle with
Taylor's style of writing.
 
Anyone who says the mass of fans that piled into sheffield that day wasn't responsible in one way shape or form is a f***ing idiot, let them blame the coppers and the club, at the end of the day if everyone used a little bit of common sense that day no one would have got so much as a f***ing wicklow!

This wasn't nazi's forcing people into trains with machine guns, this was thousands of grown men/women going to a football match with more than enough room to accomodate them on their own free will!

I've been one of them idiots marra.

I've pushed my luck at Swansea, Cardiff, York, Arsenal, Man City, Chelsea, Burnley and all the other daft crushes and confrontations ........ I've fought with Sunderland fans at Ayresome Park trying to get in before the Boro Frontline got us. I've been in the Newcastle section at SJP for 3 matches including the play-offs and the Rowell hat-trick game.

If it had gone wrong at any of them matches I'd have thought,
'Riv, you're a f***ing idiot and you only have yersel to blame'.

Accoring to the likes of Pancho the Liverpool fans were all totally blameless.
They don't live in the real world and lash out at those, like you, who do.
 
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Anyone who says the mass of fans that piled into sheffield that day wasn't responsible in one way shape or form is a f***ing idiot, let them blame the coppers and the club, at the end of the day if everyone used a little bit of common sense that day no one would have got so much as a f***ing wicklow!

This wasn't nazi's forcing people into trains with machine guns, this was thousands of grown men/women going to a football match with more than enough room to accomodate them on their own free will!

Agreed mate, as a clairvoyant type of bloke as soon as I spotted a gate opened on Police instructions I'd have refused to enter. It should have been obvious to all concerned that section was already full.
 
Agreed mate, as a clairvoyant type of bloke as soon as I spotted a gate opened on Police instructions I'd have refused to enter. It should have been obvious to all concerned that section was already full.

Nemo, would you have died on that day .......... yes or no.
 
Regardless of whether Taylor said that in the report or not, they had a statutory duty of care to the fans in terms of controlling the crowds that day and that they got safely into and out of the ground. That was their role.

The police, as far as I am aware, never claimed otherwise on this point. They obviously made up some stories as I mentioned earlier as to why they didn't, but they never claimed at the subsequent inquest that they had no responsibility for controlling the crowd as a defence of their actions that day.


It's human nature, self preservation if you will, if you had a party lined up as a youth and your mates smashed your ma's house up you would say big skinheads crashed it and wrecked it, of course you would! At the end of the day you would justify it in your own head to make youself blameless by believing what you want!!!!

You know the truth! Football fans circa 88 to 91 were savages, i'll still blame the skinheads though!

Agreed mate, as a clairvoyant type of bloke as soon as I spotted a gate opened on Police instructions I'd have refused to enter. It should have been obvious to all concerned that section was already full.

Dude i've been in the crush, been there and done that and have never been responsible for the death of 1 single person, why????

Luck???

Or

1 or more gate was opened 10 mins before the hoards??

The club allowed a few extra turnstile to be opened for away fans in advance?

The coppers went fuck that let them in and we'll hope for the best and it worked!

The home team knew how to funnel fans into a stadium?????

I was always last in and it never happened but if it did, i'd be sitting there with a guilty concience!!!!!

Why???

Cos i was pushing like fuck to get in!
 
It's human nature, self preservation if you will, if you had a party lined up as a youth and your mates smashed your ma's house up you would say big skinheads crashed it and wrecked it, of course you would! At the end of the day you would justify it in your own head to make youself blameless by believing what you want!!!!

You know the truth! Football fans circa 88 to 91 were savages, i'll still blame the skinheads though!



Dude i've been in the crush, been there and done that and have never been responsible for the death of 1 single person, why????

Luck???

Or

1 or more gate was opened 10 mins before the hoards??

The club allowed a few extra turnstile to be opened for away fans in advance?

The coppers went fuck that let them in and we'll hope for the best and it worked!

The home team knew how to funnel fans into a stadium?????

I was always last in and it never happened but if it did, i'd be sitting there with a guilty concience!!!!!

Why???

Cos i was pushing like fuck to get in!

And sadly, that's a rare example of honesty and humlity on this thread ....... well said.
 
Like Franky Boyle says rather than spending a million on her state funeral buy everyone in scotland a shovel so we can dig a whole deep enough to hand her straight to the devil himself :)

Andy Parsons once said it would probably be the only state funeral where the gun salute fires on the coffin...

I am in two minds about the issue, if anything doesnt look right in the papers, I would open a fresh inquiry, Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen, there was problem in 1988, and problems there in 1981.

As for blame I believe the police are the main ones to blame along with SWFC stewards what I would like to know is

1. Why was Ch. Superintendent Duckinfield in charge, he had little to no
2. Why was he adamant on the 3pm kick off
3. What did Duckenfield mean when he said 'find there own level'
4. Why didn't Stewards and Police just block the tunnel to the Centre Pen
5. What was the police upto when they lied blatantly to the FA and lastly
6. Why has no one ever been done for it.

For blame, it mostly Police, to directly blame Liverpool is below the belt, all hooligans are indirectly responsible as there actions had seen the fences go up, it is pretty much certain people turned up ticketless and pissed but the Taylor Report dismissed it pretty much
 
Liverpool fans to blame for me like

I do agree at part of that argument, but I saw it as an indirect part in it, as did most hooligans...

Just out of interest, where would football be today if Hillsborough didnt happen and no Taylor Report, would new stadiums still gone up or would a lot of grounds still ne shitholes to this day...

Also was our Semi-Final in '92 the first Semi Final played in Shefrield since '89
 
this

anyone who went to football in the mid/late 80's knows it was always going to happen it was just a case of who it happened to

liverpool fans were guilty of nothing more than turning up in numbers to watch their team in an FA cup semi final

96 of them didnt go home:neutral:

end of.

RIP

This. Once again Shints provides a voice of reason.
 
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