Glen Hoddle

[matt_catchpennie]

I remember when he got sacked over the disabled comments a lad from my school who had a false leg was on the front page of the sun holding his fake leg in his footy kit,
Mainly remember it because the article said he was in the school football team and one of the best players. Which were both lies, (no surprise with the sun)
You weren’t allowed to tackle him in PE in case firstly his leg came off, or secondly you came out worse because his leg was hard plastic.

 

[PTR]

I'll always remember his MOTM peformance against Portugal at the 2006 World Cup. Think it was the only game he started at that tournament, and I remember feeling so frustrated that he'd been overlooked up until that point.

I seem to remember his early England games being shoe-horned as a left winger! Nothing changes!

 

[Definitely Maybe]

Lampard played the same role for Chelsea for 10+ years even though they had a new manager every other season. Makelele sat, Essien ran box to box and Lampard got forward. Obviously throw in Ballack, Deco, Ramires etc as the years went on but his role stayed the same.

Gerrard played under the same manager for years but Benitez never really trusted him in one position, he played defensive midfield at first, he played wide right for a few years and as a 10 behind Torres. He was never really trusted in the middle.

Looking back I think a midfield 3 of Hargreaves, Lampard and Beckham would have worked. Move Gerrard out to the right where he can roam and support Rooney like what Muller used to do for Germany. Joe Cole on the left who can take defenders on and get crosses in.

 

[TopCat]

Ah, Hargreaves. Literally THE SOLUTION to our International midfield. So underrated. Such a shame the injuries got him or he'd have been our "water carrier" for a generation, allowing others to do their thing.
Never seen a more intelligent ballwinner in the middle of the park. Didn't even need to tackle, as he knew exactly where to be to just collect the ball and get us moving.

Damn.

He was fit and firing for so many years but ignored by Eriksson. By the time his usefulness was identified he was on the downward spiral of injuries. Seems as though the Man Utd transfer was the worst mistake of his life

Hargreaves sitting in front of the Centre Halves could have opened up an whole world of opportunities, but instead Eriksson used him as a right back in the World Cup

Imagine a midfield of:

Hargreaves
Lampard Gerrard Scholes

​

Play 3 at the back with wing backs, play Lampard and Gerrard off the striker (Rooney) with the likes of Walcott, Lennon and Cole in reserve.....

Lampard played the same role for Chelsea for 10+ years even though they had a new manager every other season. Makelele sat, Essien ran box to box and Lampard got forward. Obviously throw in Ballack, Deco, Ramires etc as the years went on but his role stayed the same.

Gerrard played under the same manager for years but Benitez never really trusted him in one position, he played defensive midfield at first, he played wide right for a few years and as a 10 behind Torres. He was never really trusted in the middle.

Looking back I think a midfield 3 of Hargreaves, Lampard and Beckham would have worked. Move Gerrard out to the right where he can roam and support Rooney like what Muller used to do for Germany. Joe Cole on the left who can take defenders on and get crosses in.

IIRC McClaren's first game in charge of England he played Gerrard wide right with Hargreaves inside

Imagine a midfield of:

Hargreaves
Lampard Gerrard Scholes

​

Play 3 at the back with wing backs, play Lampard and Gerrard off the striker (Rooney) with the likes of Walcott, Lennon and Cole in reserve.....

then watch us get disqualified for playing with 12 players

Idiot

 

[Teesside_Steve]

I seem to remember his early England games being shoe-horned as a left winger! Nothing changes!

Some say our so-called 'Golden Generation' flopped, but I do also think a big part of it was down to poor management.

Sven made some baffling decisions when you look back it now. Hargreaves on the left, Scholes on the left, persisting with Lampard and Gerrard as a two.

It wasn't just Sven either, I remember at the 2010 World Cup, we ended up with Milner wide right, and Gerrard wide left. Hodgson shoehorned Rooney as a left winger, and then into midfield.

That's why I'm so glad now that Southgate actually picks players based on merit, and tries to play players in their natural position. I think if former England managers had have done the same we'd have had more chance of success.

 

[TopCat]

Some say our so-called 'Golden Generation' flopped, but I do also think a big part of it was down to poor management.

Sven made some baffling decisions when you look back it now. Hargreaves on the left, Scholes on the left, persisting with Lampard and Gerrard as a two.

It wasn't just Sven either, I remember at the 2010 World Cup, we ended up with Milner wide right, and Gerrard wide left. Hodgson shoehorned Rooney as a left winger, and then into midfield.

That's why I'm so glad now that Southgate actually picks players based on merit, and tries to play players in their natural position. I think if former England managers had have done the same we'd have had more chance of success.

Eriksson had his favourites and and wouldn't move away from 4-4-2. We were always going to fail with that approach

 

[RedFlag1308]

Looking back I think a midfield 3 of Hargreaves, Lampard and Beckham would have worked. Move Gerrard out to the right where he can roam and support Rooney like what Muller used to do for Germany. Joe Cole on the left who can take defenders on and get crosses in.

Gerrard had a notable skill set but I honestly don’t think a single one of them crosses over with Müller. He would have been marked out the game on the right. His danger area was unmarked just past the centre circle when he could move it forward a few meters, then either through ball if he was playing with Owen or Torres, Or just twat it as hard as he could from 40 yards. His off the ball movement was actually really poor, he was a ball magnet and an energy man, not remotely subtle.

Whereas Lampards greatest skill set was sitting just between the opposition midfield and defence and confusing them. He needed dynamism from the wings (something England never had) As much as he needed Essiens water carrying and Makeleles shielding to allowing him to find the spaces and confuse the centre backs. The opposition CM had been dragged out wide to mark the winger & fullback and the CBs were both dealing with the bastard of a CF like Rooney or Drogba And the RW who had moved central to create space. And that forced the remaining RB or CM to sit tightly on the playmaker like Deco (no coincidence That lampards most prolific season was when Deco or Anelka we’re acting as playmakers) he then has a free walk into the box and has to get a good finish on it. This would happen in a split second with a counter attack or by Lampard holding back for the other attackers to take their positions, utterly impossible to play against.

So for England at this point you would have Gerrard picking the ball up in his role, looking up and either bypassing Lampard to the forward or passing to Lampard who is now to the side to him, or just shooting into the crowd. Lose the ball and you’ve got 5 players forward and technically adept European teams will just pass it around Hargreaves.

The ugly truth and real answer to the Gerrard/Lampard question was you pick your favourite and then replicate what they did at their club team with the players at your disposal, or you play neither.

 

[Swindon On Tour]

I seem to remember Gerrard playing right back for England, can't remember which Engalnd manager it was though but.

Saw him at Roker playing for Swindon as a sweeper, pinging 40 yard passes.

It was a delight to watch.
Scored a cracking goal at home on his debut against Sunderland.
Just dropped his shoulder cut inside and “bang” flew in the top corner.
Made Colin Calderwood the player he became.
Just wonderful watching him hit pin point balls all over the park.

 

[Howard the Duck]

The Scholes left wing thing is a bit of a myth really. He played about 5 games there but had played on the left all season for Man United. He actually said it was his favourite position. Aside from that he'd been dreadful for England for a long time and was lucky to still get in the team whereas Lampard and Gerrard were really coming into their own for club and country.

Scholes reinvented himself as a deep playmaker which is how people remember him now but that wasn't until years later after he'd struggled fitness and form.

When was that? I thought he broke into the Man United team as a sort of number 10. Then got a little deeper to play alongside Keane for a load of seasons.

Where was Giggs? And who did he get shoved out on the left to accommodate? Surely through most of Scholes’ England career was when Man United had the four of Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Giggs?

 

[Definitely Maybe]

When was that? I thought he broke into the Man United team as a sort of number 10. Then got a little deeper to play alongside Keane for a load of seasons.

Where was Giggs? And who did he get shoved out on the left to accommodate? Surely through most of Scholes’ England career was when Man United had the four of Beckham, Scholes, Keane, Giggs?

When Beckham fell out of favour Giggs played on the right a lot and Keane played with Veron in the middle. Scholes either played on the left or behind Van Nistelrooy.

Everyone thinks of that as the classic midfield but I don't think they actually played together THAT much? Butt played a lot, Keane was often suspended, Giggs had a lot of injuries around then. The BBC has an article a while ago about how often iconic partnerships actually played together - in the treble season that midfield only played together once all seaaon.

If you watch the Soccerbox episode where Scholes and Neville look back on them beating the Mags 6-2 (2003 ish?) Scholes says he'd played on the left all season and it was his favourite position. He was still an attacking midfielder then but didn't have the stamina with his asthma to get up and down so he loved playing wide then drifting into the box late unmarked. Said it was his best season (he scored a hat trick in that game) and said everyone thinks he retired from England because of playing there but it wasn't, he was happy to play there and only retired because he'd been shit for England for ages.

 

[Howard the Duck]

When Beckham fell out of favour Giggs played on the right a lot and Keane played with Veron in the middle. Scholes either played on the left or behind Van Nistelrooy.

Everyone thinks of that as the classic midfield but I don't think they actually played together THAT much? Butt played a lot, Keane was often suspended, Giggs had a lot of injuries around then. The BBC has an article a while ago about how often iconic partnerships actually played together - in the treble season that midfield only played together once all seaaon.

If you watch the Soccerbox episode where Scholes and Neville look back on them beating the Mags 6-2 (2003 ish?) Scholes says he'd played on the left all season and it was his favourite position. He was still an attacking midfielder then but didn't have the stamina with his asthma to get up and down so he loved playing wide then drifting into the box late unmarked. Said it was his best season (he scored a hat trick in that game) and said everyone thinks he retired from England because of playing there but it wasn't, he was happy to play there and only retired because he'd been shit for England for ages.

Ta, I didn’t know/remember that.

 

[RedFlag1308]

The Scholes left wing thing is a bit of a myth really. He played about 5 games there but had played on the left all season for Man United. He actually said it was his favourite position. Aside from that he'd been dreadful for England for a long time and was lucky to still get in the team whereas Lampard and Gerrard were really coming into their own for club and country.

Scholes reinvented himself as a deep playmaker which is how people remember him now but that wasn't until years later after he'd struggled fitness and form.

This is true. He only played on the left 8 times for England, I think it gets overhyped as he was there during euro2004 when England really should have won it on paper.
Scholes himself said “Playing on the left was never a problem. I played on the left for United I don’t know how many times. I probably had my most successful time scoring goals in that position so it was never a problem.” When Ferguson signed Veron he moved out there, again because he was so talented he just couldn’t be left out.

Scholes kind of backs up the point I have been making in this thread about Gerrard and Lampard being ‘spoilt’ and pampered by their club sides (Part of this is rooted in being english and clubs wanting a marketable English or even better local posterboy). He said “When you are going to a team, you want to be part of a team and play well, but there are individuals who are after personal glory. That is the biggest problem with English players – most of them are too selfish.” This is the gerrard and Lampard issue he is referring too. They were used to it being set up around them and they just didn’t know how to function outside of that, they had to be the stars. I don’t blame them by the way it’s more of an issue with the culture of British football than anything else.

The stats prove thisScholes scored 13 in his first 35 for England not taking set pieces or penalties, after Lampard became a regular starter he scored 1 in his final 31. Ericksson said during this baron period that Scholes was England’s best player.

The issue was with the tactical intelligence of the players that he shared the pitch with.

In the UK we have a weird fascination with making somebody all or nothing. The fact Gerrard and Lampard were good at certain headline grabbing things suddenly meant that they had to be good at everything and questioning that would see you sectioned. In the UK we never traditionally grasped the cerebral side of the game, positioning, possession, technique, movement. They are unsexy things, and the English players best at those things traditionally got sidelined for backpage brand deal blood and guts players. Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard are the perfect example of that. It is slowly changing, but the golden generation was the eye of the storm.