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Gary Ballance

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chunkylover53 said:
I think you will find that we are talking about Test match cricket

No one on this board believes that Cook and Ballance should play one dayers
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That's not what was stated, but fair enough.

I think what the majority agree on is that England's selection policy is a shambles. The Trott/Lyth fiasco and the refusal to pick an aggressive player in the top order are cases in point, but the essence of that even permeates the bowling line up - all very "samey" and crying out for some wrist spin or genuine pace. Both of those selection moves apparently deemed too risky.
 

Sweeper said:
That's not what was stated, but fair enough.

I think what the majority agree on is that England's selection policy is a shambles. The Trott/Lyth fiasco and the refusal to pick an aggressive player in the top order are cases in point, but the essence of that even permeates the bowling line up - all very "samey" and crying out for some wrist spin or genuine pace. Both of those selection moves apparently deemed too risky.
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I agree with you on the opener debate, I wouldn't have taken Trott

Spin - picking Tredwell was a joke frankly, and I would have gone with Rashid too. I don't think he is good enough but in the absence of a better option....

Pace - is there anything worth picking? Seriously?
 
chunkylover53 said:
I agree with you on the opener debate, I wouldn't have taken Trott

Spin - picking Tredwell was a joke frankly, and I would have gone with Rashid too. I don't think he is good enough but in the absence of a better option....

Pace - is there anything worth picking? Seriously?
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If they are going to take Plunkett, it's surely because he has been deemed good enough. If they could turn up, look at those pitches and not think "this is the time to gamble on some extra pace", then why was he even on the plane?
 
Sweeper said:
If they are going to take Plunkett, it's surely because he has been deemed good enough. If they could turn up, look at those pitches and not think "this is the time to gamble on some extra pace", then why was he even on the plane?
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I agree. I don't think he is the answer mind. And my hunch is that they picked Jordan because they are worried that all the quicks are coming towards the end of their career
 
Sweeper said:
Runs against everyone "count", but surely even you know that some come cheaper than others. In the context of test cricket, India and Sri Lanka at home are easy runs. Had he scored those runs against those sides in the subcontinent, they would be considerably more impressive.

India, Sri Lanka and West Indies (even when they actually field a full side) are the lowest ranked of the proper test playing nations. If he didn't have a high average after those three series it would have to set some serious alarm bells ringing.

He will have the chance to really put a marker down this summer, when he faces some decent bowling. I genuinely hope he does the business but I would not be putting any money on it just yet.



Weapons grade bullshit. On more than one occasion in this series he has inexplicably gone along at less than 0.40. This in dominant match positions against a shocking attack on incredibly flat pitches. If he had an extra gear this was by far the most obvious time to use it.



Yes - most of West Indies' best players are not playing in this series, and the lesser players who take their place in those circumstances - the reserves - are playing instead. That is just a fact.



Nobody has mentioned KP on this thread. However, it's good to see that his class and his many, many thousands of top level runs have placed him at the forefront of even your mind. "Another failure" is also a bit of a stretch; he's only played three first class innings this season and averages 51. I'd also wager that he (and the majority of other batsmen facing LVCC bowlers in English early-season conditions) are being put through a considerably sterner examination than the England test team have over the past couple of weeks on those Caribbean featherbeds.



Second? Who could possibly have more?
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I hope you are just trying to wind me up and not being serious, as it is full of outrageous statements

so if he didn't average 67, higher than anyone in the England side ever, then we should of been worried

Which West Indies first choice bowlers are not playing in this series? Tell me now, if this is their reserve attack then where are the rest?

Names please

He has had an extra gear, you clearly haven't watched the tests have you

Lets put this myth to bed, his Test strike rate is 49.87, that is higher than Joe Root and just less than Ian Bell

Anymore lies?
 
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johnson said:
I hope you are just trying to wind me up and not being serious, as it is full of outrageous statements

so if he didn't average 67, higher than anyone in the England side ever, then we should of been worried

Which West Indies first choice bowlers are not playing in this series? Tell me now, if this is their reserve attack then where are the rest?

Names please

He has had an extra gear, you clearly haven't watched the tests have you

Lets put this myth to bed, his Test strike rate is 49.87, that is higher than Joe Root and just less than Ian Bell

Anymore lies?
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If you could hand pick three series to start a test career as a batsman, and were not allowed to play all three at home, then the three you would pick would be Sri Lanka (h), India (h), and West Indies (a).

Root and Bell have both played long enough to come up against conditions - and bowlers - that necessitate slow scoring and those situations will have dragged their career strike rates down. Ballance has encountered neither to date. By "he has had an extra gear", I take it you mean towards the end of an innings when he has already chewed up 150-200 balls at a strike rate of less than 0.40? By "an extra gear" I actually mean playing at a higher tempo throughout an innings when the situation and conditions allow (as they have all through this series in particular). He (like, in fairness, one or two others) certainly has not shown any sort of inclination to do that.

As I've said before, I hope that he is the real deal. However the games he's played have not exactly been challenging in the context of test cricket - quite the opposite. If he hadn't found those games to his liking he would be in for a hell of a rude awakening when the Antipodean/South African seam attacks rock up or he is asked to tour the subcontinent. We will know by the end of August whether or not he is up to it; and when the proper cricket starts, runs scored against Sulieman Benn and Stuart (Rubbish) Binny will not count for much.

He's not the only one mind. A few people may well be found out over the next six to twelve months, with bat and/or ball.
 
Sweeper said:
If you could hand pick three series to start a test career as a batsman, and were not allowed to play all three at home, then the three you would pick would be Sri Lanka (h), India (h), and West Indies (a).

Root and Bell have both played long enough to come up against conditions - and bowlers - that necessitate slow scoring and those situations will have dragged their career strike rates down. Ballance has encountered neither to date. By "he has had an extra gear", I take it you mean towards the end of an innings when he has already chewed up 150-200 balls at a strike rate of less than 0.40? By "an extra gear" I actually mean playing at a higher tempo throughout an innings when the situation and conditions allow (as they have all through this series in particular). He (like, in fairness, one or two others) certainly has not shown any sort of inclination to do that.

As I've said before, I hope that he is the real deal. However the games he's played have not exactly been challenging in the context of test cricket - quite the opposite. If he hadn't found those games to his liking he would be in for a hell of a rude awakening when the Antipodean/South African seam attacks rock up or he is asked to tour the subcontinent. We will know by the end of August whether or not he is up to it; and when the proper cricket starts, runs scored against Sulieman Benn and Stuart (Rubbish) Binny will not count for much.

He's not the only one mind. A few people may well be found out over the next six to twelve months, with bat and/or ball.
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Clutching at straws

In the first test he was facing Taylor and Roach swinging it at 90mph, how is that not good quality bowling? Taylor is just a good test match bowler as the likes of Southee

You said West Indies are missing their best players

Which bowlers are missing? I asked you to name them and you haven't, so I assume you realise you were lying here.

You are just making stuff up to fit your argument

We have a young player who has come into the team and done absolutely outstanding, its really sad that people like you are so reluctant to give him praise, and are searching for anyway to put him down. Strike rate? f***ing hell he's averaging 67 man.

When the proper cricket starts? :lol:

dear oh dear!
 
johnson said:
One is england's second all time leading run scorer

the other averages 67 and is one of the fastest ever to 1000 test runs

bland
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stats.

the eye test tells anyone who watches england that the top three are pretty dull. tbf it was just as bad at times when trott was 3. cook was in a lot better nick back then mind.

england are devloping the durham affliction - everything picks up when the openers are out, but stoneman is imporving whilst cook is regresing [albeit at different levels of ability]
 
Twisted said:
stats.

the eye test tells anyone who watches england that the top three are pretty dull. tbf it was just as bad at times when trott was 3. cook was in a lot better nick back then mind.

england are devloping the durham affliction - everything picks up when the openers are out, but stoneman is imporving whilst cook is regresing [albeit at different levels of ability]
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Aye was awful being the best side in the world
 
johnson said:
Clutching at straws

In the first test he was facing Taylor and Roach swinging it at 90mph, how is that not good quality bowling? Taylor is just a good test match bowler as the likes of Southee

You said West Indies are missing their best players

Which bowlers are missing? I asked you to name them and you haven't, so I assume you realise you were lying here.

You are just making stuff up to fit your argument

We have a young player who has come into the team and done absolutely outstanding, its really sad that people like you are so reluctant to give him praise, and are searching for anyway to put him down. Strike rate? f***ing hell he's averaging 67 man.

When the proper cricket starts? :lol:

dear oh dear!
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The West Indies are the worst of the test playing nations - even at full strength. They are currently without a huge number of their best players, some bowl, others bat. You can see the majority of them earning vast sums of money on the other sky channel most days. If you had actually thought this through; you'd appreciate that scoreboard pressure might also have played a part in this series, was the patched up WI batting order not filled with modest at best cricketers in the absence of their front line men.

If you think Roach and Taylor are comparable to Boult and Southee (let alone the Australian or South African attacks), then it explains a lot about your position. I disagree and we won't need to wait long to find out I suppose.

Nobody is trying to "put him down" - it just needs to be pointed out that he has been lucky to come into the team and play those three series first up; and that had he not been up to those challenges, he would have had little chance of catching up against top bowling.

Yes - when the proper cricket starts. I suspect when the Australians (and even the New Zealanders) arrive in England it will feel like a very different game to a lot of these England batsmen.
 
Sweeper said:
The West Indies are the worst of the test playing nations - even at full strength. They are currently without a huge number of their best players, some bowl, others bat. You can see the majority of them earning vast sums of money on the other sky channel most days. If you had actually thought this through; you'd appreciate that scoreboard pressure might also have played a part in this series, was the patched up WI batting order not filled with modest at best cricketers in the absence of their front line men.

If you think Roach and Taylor are comparable to Boult and Southee (let alone the Australian or South African attacks), then it explains a lot about your position. I disagree and we won't need to wait long to find out I suppose.

Nobody is trying to "put him down" - it just needs to be pointed out that he has been lucky to come into the team and play those three series first up; and that had he not been up to those challenges, he would have had little chance of catching up against top bowling.

Yes - when the proper cricket starts. I suspect when the Australians (and even the New Zealanders) arrive in England it will feel like a very different game to a lot of these England batsmen.
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So basically West Indies aren't missing any of their main bowlers, you just made that up?

Jerome Taylor is an excellent swing bowler, and he was bowling at 90mph consistently.

They are missing Gayle. Who else? Pollard and Sammy are not test match players, look at their records.

I honestly can't think of anyone you are talking about, Narine has played 6 test matches and took wickets at over 40

who are you on about?

West Indies aren't a great side but to say we are playing a reserve side is just a blatant lie
 
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johnson said:
aye just 4 wins in the last 5 tests mate

spot on.
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we've only played two tests with trott opening as so far he has hardly covered himself in glory. cook has finally made a score though so that crack is papered over. ballance has picked up where he has left off though so the top three is fine how it is apparently.

chunkylover53 said:
The SMB had several

Trott
Stokes
Pietersen
Hales

#jobsfortheboys
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i was hoping macleod would be one tbh. would have loved to see him paste england's attack arl ower. we so nearly managed to throw that game away.
 
Twisted said:
we've only played two tests with trott opening as so far he has hardly covered himself in glory. cook has finally made a score though so that crack is papered over. ballance has picked up where he has left off though so the top three is fine how it is apparently.



i was hoping macleod would be one tbh. would have loved to see him paste england's attack arl ower. we so nearly managed to throw that game away.
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He has scored 4 scores over 70 in his last 7 innings, he has looked good this series.

Ballance hasn't papered over any cracks, he is a good player, thats not really up for debate

Trott's unlikely to be playing in the Ashes isn't he

Stop being so negative man. We are a decent test team. it has absolutely no relation to the ODI stuff
 
johnson said:
He has scored 4 scores over 70 in his last 7 innings, he has looked good this series.

Ballance hasn't papered over any cracks, he is a good player, thats not really up for debate

Trott's unlikely to be playing in the Ashes isn't he

Stop being so negative man. We are a decent test team. it has absolutely no relation to the ODI stuff
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i never said ballance shouldnt be in the side, he has done agreat job since coming in. should never have been chucked in to the pyjama stuff but there you go..

trott is unlikely to play in the ashes i absolutely agree so what is the point in wasting test matches playing him as an opener?

all implied is we are desperate for an opener who can score runs and take some pressure off cook so he can get back to his best and you keep stuffing unrelated stats down my throat.
 
johnson said:
He has scored 4 scores over 70 in his last 7 innings, he has looked good this series.

Ballance hasn't papered over any cracks, he is a good player, thats not really up for debate

Trott's unlikely to be playing in the Ashes isn't he

Stop being so negative man. We are a decent test team. it has absolutely no relation to the ODI stuff
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He is now what, over two years without a test hundred? Closing in on 40 innings? Give over man - he has a serious question mark over him, or at least should have.

England are at best a bang average test team and as has been mentioned countless times, have benefitted from a run of series which could not have been any better were they hand picked. That run of series is about to come to an end. We will find out over the next 12 months how good this team - and the players in it - actually are. I hope you are right to put them on this pedestal but suspect that come the end of the summer it will be a somewhat lower perch.
 
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