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This is the point some are missing. We are in no way excusing the fact that we were awful or blaming Friend for the fact we were awful.
But just because we were awful shouldn't mean you should be blind to the fact he was bloody awful too.

In other sports like cricket for example when a team is awful and get well beat they just take responsibility and say soo.

Nobody even mentions the umpire even if he had a terrible game and effected the result.

The decision was inexcusable to get wrong. It was a desperate challenge from behind, I still cant believe he didnt give it. An absolute bottle job. Easily the worst ref in the league.

You are right was definitely a pen,but obviously excusable because the commentary on radio said it was a great tackle at the time,so thought exactly the same as the ref.
 
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In other sports like cricket for example when a team is awful and get well beat they just take responsibility and say soo.

Nobody even mentions the umpire even if he had a terrible game and effected the result.

Actually you are completely wrong. When a player gets a hundred after being wrongly given out there is quite wide debate. It is totally acceptable for us to highlight such awful, inexplicable decisions. Even Keith Hackett, the former chief of referees said the referees have been terrible this year - and that 5 of the current Premiership refs should step down at the end of the season (including correctly Andre Marriner). We need answers as to why Marriner did not give a penalty and a sending off at Southampton - there was simply no other decision to be made unless you booked Fletcher to dive - same with Friend's decision on Sunday. These refs are not good enough for our game and there's no one in the FA willing to do anything. However, if such decisions are against Chelsea then there is a chance that the ref will be demoted for a period.
 
In other sports like cricket for example when a team is awful and get well beat they just take responsibility and say soo.

Nobody even mentions the umpire even if he had a terrible game.
But I've said it doesn't excuse us being awful.
Other than the ashes I don't follow cricket really so I couldn't comment. But even if cricket fans don't comment on referees that doesn't mean we shouldn't.
As I've said before I accept that they have a difficult job and there will always be a slight moan or whinge, but that's all it is. Having said that this they only get one look claim so do the crowd and I can often see clearly from the crowd what they miss from the pitch. I could see clearly from the East Stand on the half way line the hand balls that Marriner missed against Hull when he was inches away, for example.
You certainly don't see threads the length about Marriner (after Hull) and now Friend after Bradford after every game do you? Surely that demonstrates that this is more than a little twist about the ref, too many people see it about these two for it to be that. They are consistently shit when they ref against us and the number of red cards Friend has shown to us as opposed to in the rest of his games is massively disproportionate. Yet he didn't send Colback off last week!
 
Actually you are completely wrong. When a player gets a hundred after being wrongly given out there is quite wide debate. It is totally acceptable for us to highlight such awful, inexplicable decisions. Even Keith Hackett, the former chief of referees said the referees have been terrible this year - and that 5 of the current Premiership refs should step down at the end of the season (including correctly Andre Marriner). We need answers as to why Marriner did not give a penalty and a sending off at Southampton - there was simply no other decision to be made unless you booked Fletcher to dive - same with Friend's decision on Sunday. These refs are not good enough for our game and there's no one in the FA willing to do anything. However, if such decisions are against Chelsea then there is a chance that the ref will be demoted for a period.
And why Marriner didn't give the hand balls against Hull.
 
Actually you are completely wrong. When a player gets a hundred after being wrongly given out there is quite wide debate. It is totally acceptable for us to highlight such awful, inexplicable decisions. Even Keith Hackett, the former chief of referees said the referees have been terrible this year - and that 5 of the current Premiership refs should step down at the end of the season (including correctly Andre Marriner). We need answers as to why Marriner did not give a penalty and a sending off at Southampton - there was simply no other decision to be made unless you booked Fletcher to dive - same with Friend's decision on Sunday. These refs are not good enough for our game and there's no one in the FA willing to do anything. However, if such decisions are against Chelsea then there is a chance that the ref will be demoted for a period.

Yeah but in the press conference after the game the captain never mentions it as a excuse as would be perceived as a bad loser,unlike managers who use every excuse in the book to take away responsibility for their teams performance.

Totally disagree with either booking a player or giving a pen,the game is too fast and players to good at diving,therefore they will be loads of instances where a ref is simply not sure on a penalty soo should have the option of giving nothing which is exactly what happened in the Southampton game.

As for 5 refs stepping down who is better?

Are championship fans saying their refs should get promoted of course not?

Easy to criticise but replacing 5 refs will make not difference the mistakes will still happen as inevitable,technology is needed to help refs that is clear IMO.
 
Yeah but in the press conference after the game the captain never mentions it as a excuse as would be perceived as a bad loser,unlike managers who use every excuse in the book to take away responsibility for their teams performance.

Totally disagree with either booking a player or giving a pen,the game is too fast and players to good at diving,therefore they will be loads of instances where a ref is simply not sure on a penalty soo should have the option of giving nothing which is exactly what happened in the Southampton game.

As for 5 refs stepping down who is better?

Are championship fans saying their refs should get promoted of course not?

Easy to criticise but replacing 5 refs will make not difference the mistakes will still happen as inevitable,technology is needed to help refs that is clear IMO.

This was a suggestion from Keith Hackett - former chief of refs who said it publicly. Suggests that the poor standard of the refereeing is a big problem for the game. I see 16 year olds reffing kids games and its quite clear this is the route refs take - they have never played the game and do not really understand it. Refs in the Premiership have reffed all their life and risen through a pyramid. Surely with a game dripping with money we should be looking to fast track ex-players and pay them decent money. We can spot diving at speed, why can't the refs? If you can't see a problem then I am surprised.

As for the Southampton game - there was no obscuring of the view - if there has been a clearer penalty I can't think one. As for refs not being sure - remember Howard Webb against Everon - he did his typical bend over, think about and then give a penalty - he couldn't see Osman, the view was obscured and Osman tripped himself up with no one near him - Webb guessed and wrongly gave a penalty. Or the handball (one of them) against Hull - the Hull player with his hand up and out wide virtually slapped the ball out for a corner. The linesman was 5-10 yards away with no one in front of him. If he doesn't give a hand ball there then never, ever give a penalty for handball.

There is a clear problem and there are solutions about but the FA doesn't want to deal with it - just like they don't want to deal with diving.

And why Marriner didn't give the hand balls against Hull.

As I said - this was right in front of the linesman. If he is not going to give a penalty for that one when the lads hand was right up and he moved the hand towards the ball then he can never, ever give a penalty. I do believe some refs tell the linesman to leave such decisions to him, as they do in the amateur game. Refs clearly haven't fully moved into a professional mode - just look at Dowd.
 
This was a suggestion from Keith Hackett - former chief of refs who said it publicly. Suggests that the poor standard of the refereeing is a big problem for the game. I see 16 year olds reffing kids games and its quite clear this is the route refs take - they have never played the game and do not really understand it. Refs in the Premiership have reffed all their life and risen through a pyramid. Surely with a game dripping with money we should be looking to fast track ex-players and pay them decent money. We can spot diving at speed, why can't the refs? If you can't see a problem then I am surprised.

As for the Southampton game - there was no obscuring of the view - if there has been a clearer penalty I can't think one. As for refs not being sure - remember Howard Webb against Everon - he did his typical bend over, think about and then give a penalty - he couldn't see Osman, the view was obscured and Osman tripped himself up with no one near him - Webb guessed and wrongly gave a penalty. Or the handball (one of them) against Hull - the Hull player with his hand up and out wide virtually slapped the ball out for a corner. The linesman was 5-10 yards away with no one in front of him. If he doesn't give a hand ball there then never, ever give a penalty for handball.

There is a clear problem and there are solutions about but the FA doesn't want to deal with it - just like they don't want to deal with diving.



As I said - this was right in front of the linesman. If he is not going to give a penalty for that one when the lads hand was right up and he moved the hand towards the ball then he can never, ever give a penalty. I do believe some refs tell the linesman to leave such decisions to him, as they do in the amateur game. Refs clearly haven't fully moved into a professional mode - just look at Dowd.
It was and it makes a mockery of the statement that they only get one look. I sit on the halfway line in the East Stand and could see it as clear as day, yet the people standing within a few yards don't see it. I can't accept that.
 
This was a suggestion from Keith Hackett - former chief of refs who said it publicly. Suggests that the poor standard of the refereeing is a big problem for the game. I see 16 year olds reffing kids games and its quite clear this is the route refs take - they have never played the game and do not really understand it. Refs in the Premiership have reffed all their life and risen through a pyramid. Surely with a game dripping with money we should be looking to fast track ex-players and pay them decent money. We can spot diving at speed, why can't the refs? If you can't see a problem then I am surprised.

As for the Southampton game - there was no obscuring of the view - if there has been a clearer penalty I can't think one. As for refs not being sure - remember Howard Webb against Everon - he did his typical bend over, think about and then give a penalty - he couldn't see Osman, the view was obscured and Osman tripped himself up with no one near him - Webb guessed and wrongly gave a penalty. Or the handball (one of them) against Hull - the Hull player with his hand up and out wide virtually slapped the ball out for a corner. The linesman was 5-10 yards away with no one in front of him. If he doesn't give a hand ball there then never, ever give a penalty for handball.

There is a clear problem and there are solutions about but the FA doesn't want to deal with it - just like they don't want to deal with diving.


Are you really telling me you can spot diving at full speed and one look each time surely not?

Surely there will have been loads of times you have been to a match,went home and watched it on MOTD and it looked different or you were wrong.

There has been at least 20 more clearer pens this season than the Southampton one,but do admit the linesman was terrible for not spotting the handball against Hull,although of course Marriner got the blame

No ex-players would ever take up been a ref,because 20 years building up a rapport with football fans would be destroyed within 3/4 games when these inevitable mistakes happen.

It is the speed of the game and the good standard of cheating from players that makes it impossible for refs not the standard off them.
 
In other sports like cricket for example when a team is awful and get well beat they just take responsibility and say soo.

Nobody even mentions the umpire even if he had a terrible game and effected the result.
Aye, cricket... Where they were so concerned about umpiring decisions they introduced referrals and video technology...
 
The first yellow cards for Cana and Cattermole were very, very soft. Both players were stupid giving him no option with the second ones mind.

One of the problems with Friend is not just the amount of bad calls he makes against us (and the list is outstanding) it's also the inconsistency of the 'small' fouls within a game. He often yellow cards our player for his first foul, or for 'fouls' he doesn't pull the opposition on. Why? I've no idea mate, but the facts are there to see.

This isn't about refs in general, they have a bloody difficult job and one I don't envy in today's climate of replays, diving etc, this is about Kevin Friend. A ref who for whatever reason has fucked us over time and time again over a 5 year period.

I disagree with this. Against Bradford, obvious penalty aside, he wasn't biased at all. Whether he had a decent game or not is debatable, but I was sat with the Bradford fans and they were getting just as irate at some of the decisions going against them as we were against us. And the previous game, at home a couple of months ago (I've forgotten the opposition). He had an absolutely fine game, yet people on here were going on about his corruptness.

TBH the oldest excuse in a football fans book is to blame the referee when your/our/their team loses. I'm not having it like. Same for both sides. Friend refereeing our games has nothing to do with us losing. We're simply shite thats all.

I think the likes of Friend and Marriner are quite poor refs, and they do seem to have given more big decisions against us than in our favour. But when people start pulling them up for every little thing, when they're actually doing fine, it's hard to take them so seriously. I agree with your assertion that it's easy to blame the ref.

Friend gave Bradford pretty much everything on Sunday, not that they needed that much help. Atkinson against QPR - how could he not have booked Henry for that challenge on Gomez, or Barton for that pull back on Johnson, and then he had to book him when he did it again 30 seconds later - Barton should have received 2 yellows. Doesn't mask how shite we were but these decisions/ fuck ups change games.

Simply not true. You're being clouded because he got the major decision of the match wrong.
 
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I disagree with this. Against Bradford, obvious penalty aside, he wasn't biased at all. Whether he had a decent game or not is debatable, but I was sat with the Bradford fans and they were getting just as irate at some of the decisions going against them as we were against us. And the previous game, at home a couple of months ago (I've forgotten the opposition). He had an absolutely fine game, yet people on here were going on about his corruptness.



I think the likes of Friend and Marriner are quite poor refs, and they do seem to have given more big decisions against us than in our favour. But when people start pulling them up for every little thing, when they're actually doing fine, it's hard to take them so seriously. I agree with your assertion that it's easy to blame the ref.



Simply not true. You're being clouded because he got the major decision of the match wrong.


it is true, just because you dont agree doesnt make it untrue, he let the Bradford team play a physical game, and blew up for every tiny indiscretion from our players. We were shit, but I will not have it said that this parody of a referee didnt once again affect the outcome of one of our games
 
I disagree with this. Against Bradford, obvious penalty aside, he wasn't biased at all. Whether he had a decent game or not is debatable, but I was sat with the Bradford fans and they were getting just as irate at some of the decisions going against them as we were against us. And the previous game, at home a couple of months ago (I've forgotten the opposition). He had an absolutely fine game, yet people on here were going on about his corruptness.



I think the likes of Friend and Marriner are quite poor refs, and they do seem to have given more big decisions against us than in our favour. But when people start pulling them up for every little thing, when they're actually doing fine, it's hard to take them so seriously. I agree with your assertion that it's easy to blame the ref.



Simply not true. You're being clouded because he got the major decision of the match wrong.

my memory of the game was that we were soft as shite and yet somehow we managed to concede twice as many fouls as Bradford and got 3 yellows to there one, which isn't even mentioning penalty-gate.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31423096
 
But I've said it doesn't excuse us being awful.
Other than the ashes I don't follow cricket really so I couldn't comment. But even if cricket fans don't comment on referees that doesn't mean we shouldn't.
As I've said before I accept that they have a difficult job and there will always be a slight moan or whinge, but that's all it is. Having said that this they only get one look claim so do the crowd and I can often see clearly from the crowd what they miss from the pitch. I could see clearly from the East Stand on the half way line the hand balls that Marriner missed against Hull when he was inches away, for example.
You certainly don't see threads the length about Marriner (after Hull) and now Friend after Bradford after every game do you? Surely that demonstrates that this is more than a little twist about the ref, too many people see it about these two for it to be that. They are consistently shit when they ref against us and the number of red cards Friend has shown to us as opposed to in the rest of his games is massively disproportionate. Yet he didn't send Colback off last week!

Just a point on this: it's often much easier to see an incident when you're elevated in the middle of a stand with a great view, than when your pitch-side with a worms-eye-view.

it is true, just because you dont agree doesnt make it untrue, he let the Bradford team play a physical game, and blew up for every tiny indiscretion from our players. We were shit, but I will not have it said that this parody of a referee didnt once again affect the outcome of one of our games

No, it's opinions. The Bradford fans I were sat with moaned about Friend a number of times for giving decisions to us. Does their opinion count?
 
I'm utterly baffled that people on here knows who referees our games to such a degree. I have absolutely no idea who referees our games, take absolutely no interest in them and consequently I cant say I've ever picked up an agenda by any referee, ever, against us.
...and there's the reason why
 
my memory of the game was that we were soft as shite and yet somehow we managed to concede twice as many fouls as Bradford and got 3 yellows to there one, which isn't even mentioning penalty-gate.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31423096

Can you remember any of these decisions that he got wrong? For me he gave them a few soft free-kicks, and he gave us some soft ones too. Fletcher's was as clear a booking as you'll see, Larsson's was pretty clear too I seem to remember, I can't remember Jones'. Bradford fans were going mental with Friend when they booked their lad...
 
Can you remember any of these decisions that he got wrong? For me he gave them a few soft free-kicks, and he gave us some soft ones too. Fletcher's was as clear a booking as you'll see, Larsson's was pretty clear too I seem to remember, I can't remember Jones'. Bradford fans were going mental with Friend when they booked their lad...

I'd have to watch it again but I remember thinking at the time most of the 50:50's were going there way, in fact that's what Jason Cundy said on the commentary too so not just my imagination.
 
Just a point on this: it's often much easier to see an incident when you're elevated in the middle of a stand with a great view, than when your pitch-side with a worms-eye-view.


No, it's opinions. The Bradford fans I were sat with moaned about Friend a number of times for giving decisions to us. Does their opinion count?


But I am only in row 12 so I am not exactly high up.
And The ref and the linesman? Surely one of them should see it, the linesman had a clear view of that handball tbf.
It's letting them off a little bit lightly that, imo of course.
 
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