For the money we have spent

blackcat1983 said:
The issue is a bit confusing for some people as it's not straight forward. You can't just look at the figures and expect it to tell a story.

Basically, what lies behind those net spend figures is the fact that we've had to make a massive clear out to clear our wage bill, and therefore needed to bring in more players than almost all clubs in this league, that's why our spending is higher. Most other clubs retained almost all of their squad which has been built up slowly over a number of years, and therefore didn't need to acquire half a squad like us! However, if they had lost half their squad, they would also have had to reinvest some of the Salesian order to acquire.

We were in a different position to every other team in this league in that we had players on premier league wages as we dropped into this division. That was-and still is- a challenge that no other club in this division has to face. We're still in a bad position with the likes of Cattermole and Oviedo on high salaries, but these are problems that were inherited from the previous regime. It's something that we have to make right as and when we can. These players are most likely taking up a massive percentage our our wage budget and the club has done a great job getting the number of players in that it has, on sustainable and sensible wages, whilst still handicapped by these high earners.

To put things into perspective. We could retain all players at the end of this season, sell none. Have a net spend of £0. Yet it would be exactly the same squad as we have now. What would we moan about then? It's an irrelevant statistic unless it's discussed in context.
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Spot on.
 


Quillips said:
There was a manager who took over an ambitious club in the summer of 2016.

I thought their squad was canny as it was, but he spent big. £166m.

They only came 3rd in the league that season.

They wanted top spot, they were aiming for top spot. No other way to put it except: he had failed.
And they didn't get to a final, let alone win a trophy.

Fortunately for Pep, and the club, they realised the obvious ...

... it takes time as well as money to build a winning team.
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Thing is, Pep spent a fortune but had a plan and a recognisable system and the players he put together didn't half play some exciting stuff, even when they lost.

In comparison, we spent a fortune (comparatively)....and that's about it. Unless the plan actually is to bore the opposition into submission before grabbing a creditable draw off the likes of Burton f***ing Albion.
 
Lucky1985 said:
So if Southampton lose every player in their squat at the end of the season, but they spend £50m buying an entirely new squad you think that they should be a shoe in for promotion. Even though they have one of the lowest average player values in the league, because they spent more than anyone else they should be promoted?


Honestly I didn’t really pay any attention to it so I don’t know what they spent and what they sold.


But someone thought they were better than the players we bought, otherwise they’d have taken the players we bought instead and saved themselves £16m


How can you possibly argue it’s out of context?! You’re ignoring half of the data!
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Who said anything about Southampton losing every player in their squad like.

Sunderland didn't lose every player in our squad.

Cattermole, Mcgeady, Oviedo, Gooch, Honeyman, Maja, Watmore, Mathews etc etc.... all remained then we spent more than the rest of the league combined.
 
Binxy said:
Who said anything about Southampton losing every player in their squad like.

Sunderland didn't lose every player in our squad.

Cattermole, Mcgeady, Oviedo, Gooch, Honeyman, Maja, Watmore, Mathews etc etc.... all remained then we spent more than the rest of the league combined.
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I used it as an extreme example to show how flawed the argument of “if you spend more that the other teams you should win the league” is, because it doesn’t factor in any other circumstances.
 
There will be a canny net spend next summer if we dont go up and have to replace McGeady, Oviedo, Catts, Matthews, Ruiter, Stryjek, Hume, Embleton, Morgan, Dunne and probably a few more.

Lets not pretend like we brought in shite. 3 mil on Grigg, Bradfords top scorer, Power and James from League 1 champions Wigan, Scottish PFA team of the year goalkeeper, 4 centre backs, O'Nien whos been a revelation at right back, proven quality in Leadbitter and ive probably missed a few. The squad we have right now is by far the best thats ever been in this league and to not go up represents catastrophic failure imo. Failure which could very well see us spending 2 or 3 more years at this level as we will have to rebuild the squad.
 
Ageing Grey Mackem said:
Thing is, Pep spent a fortune but had a plan and a recognisable system and the players he put together didn't half play some exciting stuff, even when they lost.

In comparison, we spent a fortune (comparatively)....and that's about it. Unless the plan actually is to bore the opposition into submission before grabbing a creditable draw off the likes of Burton f***ing Albion.
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Mansoor wanted to change the City philosophy. He didn't feel that spending money on players in the hope that their individual talents would shine through.

They recruited the top man at Barca to oversee it. Guardiola changed the who system from first team down to the U8s! We aren't doing that. We have no structure to how we operate.

It doesn't help that Donald is doing Podcasts saying if the manager wants a striker he'll sign 2 and that the manager can't pick players if they don't sign contracts or criticising players on big contracts.
 
jsdftm04 said:
So you're saying we spent more than the whole league combined in the summer on players?

I agree
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so fuck? we are a bigger club with more cash and needed a whole new team

we didn't invest enoigh

we bough wyke, baldwin and o'nien

nowhere near enough

sold maja to buy grigg

the squad been short of quality all season
 
It’s not about money necessarily - although we have outspent the entire league it should be noted.

A manager who can’t organise a team with the players we have will always come in for criticism imho. The players we have had excelled at this level as a minimum - others have played at a higher level.

Even our ‘shit’ centre halves - Baldwin was Peterborough’s captain, Flanagan was in team of year 2 years ago. We’ve made them look like flapping idiots.
 
The reality is though ours was a massive plummet and we had to redesign the team/ squad. We're a big club with premier wages dropping down. The amount of change has cost us - it's more relevant than the cash spent really . I'll use the centre backs as an example. We were struggling to have any and needed to replace them quickly so we had some/had enough for the first games / pre season games. It led to mistakes and disorganisation and arguably we've never caught up. Maja seems to have been a massive cock up but largely from uncle ellis' time and other mistakes further down the line - Grigg - well we should have had other options lined up to be honest much sooner so Wigan couldn't dick us about. Wyke's injury was unfortunate as were others but the centre half situation continues to ruin our season. Clean sheet yesterday and we win. We score most weeks but we hoy one or two in most weeks also from failure to defend the centre of our goal.
 
The mags get absolutely rinsed on here when they spout that shit

Is this our next excuse :lol:

Quillips said:
There was a manager who took over an ambitious club in the summer of 2016.

I thought their squad was canny as it was, but he spent big. £166m.

They only came 3rd in the league that season.

They wanted top spot, they were aiming for top spot. No other way to put it except: he had failed.
And they didn't get to a final, let alone win a trophy.

Fortunately for Pep, and the club, they realised the obvious ...

... it takes time as well as money to build a winning team.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you cant be serious man .f***ing hell

Guardiola has won more trophies than ross has won games
 
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Quillips said:
There was a manager who took over an ambitious club in the summer of 2016.

I thought their squad was canny as it was, but he spent big. £166m.

They only came 3rd in the league that season.

They wanted top spot, they were aiming for top spot. No other way to put it except: he had failed.
And they didn't get to a final, let alone win a trophy.

Fortunately for Pep, and the club, they realised the obvious ...

... it takes time as well as money to build a winning team.
Click to expand...
You do realise that Pep Guardiola had done great jobs at Barcelona and Bayern Munich? Ross has only do it at Alloa and St. Mirren.

Plus Mansoor had a plan to change the ethos at City and wanted Guardiola to over see this project. Pep had a system that all the teams City play now. Man City now sign players to fit a system.

We seem to sign players who are good but don't have a system. We seem to think the players will just perform in a system regardless.

It also doesn't help that Donald doesn't seem to have a transfer strategy other than buying what he can.
 
SAFC 2012 said:
The mags get absolutely rinsed on here when they spout that shit

Is this our next excuse :lol:


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: you cant be serious man .f***ing hell

Guardiola has won more trophies than ross has won games
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:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You've missed the point. I'm not comparing Ross to Pep, far from it. It's a classical 'argumentum a fortiori'.

i.e. if it took the great Guardiola two seasons to rebuild an already regular Champions League side with all the riches at his disposal, then it is unreasonable to expect the more humbler Ross to do it in one.
 
Quillips said:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You've missed the point. I'm not comparing Ross to Pep, far from it. It's a classical 'argumentum a fortiori'.

i.e. if it took the great Guardiola two seasons to rebuild an already regular Champions League side with all the riches at his disposal, then it is unreasonable to expect the more humbler Ross to do it in one.
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It took Conte one. Keane managed it. Even Tony Mowbray managed it with Blackburn.:lol:
 
blackcat1983 said:
It's not a silly argument at all. It's completely sensible argument. In fact it's blatantly obvious.

Lets pretend we had a team of cars instead of players. If I have a team of 11 2018 top spec Aston Martins, and my mate has ten 2018 top spec Mercedes cars. At the end of the year,I can't afford all my cars, so I sell 9 Aston Martins, for £19.79M to relieve some of the debts I'd accrued and replace with 9 much cheaper 2015 Skoda's spending £3,870,00. My mate doesn't spend anything because he already has all his cars. Does this mean that MY squad squad of cars is better than his because I spent £3,870,000 and he spent nothing?

It's completely irrelevant.
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Most of that £19m was from players already out on loan that we’d already sold and accounted for the year before. Your argument holds no water. Facts are we’ve spent more than 3 times the rest of the division combined whilst retaining the best players in the leave in Catts, Oviedo, Maja (half a season) and McGeady, yet this useless idiot in charge still cannot find a way to make us perform. He should be sacked before the playoffs to give us half a chance there

Binxy said:
Who said anything about Southampton losing every player in their squad like.

Sunderland didn't lose every player in our squad.

Cattermole, Mcgeady, Oviedo, Gooch, Honeyman, Maja, Watmore, Mathews etc etc.... all remained then we spent more than the rest of the league combined.
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and let’s be fair, that selection probably has the three best players in the league in it, arguably 4 with Oviedo.
 
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Quillips said:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: You've missed the point. I'm not comparing Ross to Pep, far from it. It's a classical 'argumentum a fortiori'.

i.e. if it took the great Guardiola two seasons to rebuild an already regular Champions League side with all the riches at his disposal, then it is unreasonable to expect the more humbler Ross to do it in one.
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Its league one .Lets not get carried away here
 

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