Food for Thought From a Meteorologist!

[Tony]

I've still not heard a legitimate reason as to why the IPCC process and the subsequent conclusions are to be doubted.

In this instance, for what reason can we not trust the conclusions of thousands of climate experts?

Doubts about the IPCC reports and the subsequent conclusions have been voiced by many many qualified scientists including some who were involved in the data collection on which ( supposedly) the IPCC reports were based.

Its not the conclusions of the "thousands of scientists that are being questioned its the politicians from the 170 countries who wrote the reports based on THEIR consensus of the information at their disposal.

No doubt the scientists who disagree with the reports fill their tanks with exxon or shell or BP oor some such corrupt fuel even if they are not in the direct pay of the evil oil barons.

And when it comes to conflicts of interest tell me you don't think this guy is in it for all he can get.

Rajendra K. Pachauri
Rajendra K. Pachauri is director-general for The Energy and Resources Institute, which conducts research and provides professional support in the areas of energy, environment, forestry, biotechnology and the conservation of natural resources. Prior to this, Pachauri held managerial positions with the Diesel Locomotive works in Varanasi, and served as assistant professor and visiting faculty member in the Department of Economics and Business at North Carolina State University. In 2002, he was elected Chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and in 2001, he was awarded the Padma Bhushan by the president of India for his contributions to the environment. Pachauri taught at Yale University's School of Forestry and Environmental Studies in 2000 as a McCluskey Fellow. In 1999, he was appointed by Japan to the Board of Directors of the Institute for Global Environmental Strategies, Environment Agency. He is also president of the India Habitat Centre. Pachauri has sat on various international and national committees and boards, including the International Solar Energy Society, the World Resources Institute Council, the International Association for Energy Economics, and the Asian Energy Institute. He has also contributed to the Economic Advisory Council to the Prime Minister of India; the Panel of Eminent Persons on Power, the Ministry of Power; Delhi Vision - Core Planning Group; the Advisory Board on Energy, reporting directly to the prime minister; the National Environmental Council, under the chairmanship of the prime minister; and the Oil Industry Restructuring Group, 'R' Group. Pachauri earned an M.S. in industrial engineering, a Ph.D. in industrial engineering, and a Ph.D. in economics from North Carolina State University.

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If you have time read this. It's illuminating and I especially like the concluding paragraphs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/21/AR2008012101646_2.html

 

[Joe Public]

Doubts about the IPCC reports and the subsequent conclusions have been voiced by many many qualified scientists including some who were involved in the data collection on which ( supposedly) the IPCC reports were based.

Its not the conclusions of the "thousands of scientists that are being questioned its the politicians from the 170 countries who wrote the reports based on THEIR consensus of the information at their disposal.

No doubt the scientists who disagree with the reports fill their tanks with exxon or shell or BP oor some such corrupt fuel even if they are not in the direct pay of the evil oil barons.

And when it comes to conflicts of interest tell me you don't think this guy is in it for all he can get.

Rajendra K. Pachauri
Rajendra K. Pachauri is director-general for The Energy and Resources Institute, which conducts research and provides professional support in the areas of energy, environment, forestry, biotechnology and the conservation of natural resources. Prior to this, Pachauri held managerial positions with the Diesel Locomotive works in Varanasi, and served as assistant professor and visiting faculty member in the Department of Economics and Business at North Carolina State University. In 2002, he was elected Chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and in 2001, he was awarded the Padma Bhushan by the president of India for his contributions to the environment. Pachauri taught at Yale University's School of Forestry and Environmental Studies in 2000 as a McCluskey Fellow. In 1999, he was appointed by Japan to the Board of Directors of the Institute for Global Environmental Strategies, Environment Agency. He is also president of the India Habitat Centre. Pachauri has sat on various international and national committees and boards, including the International Solar Energy Society, the World Resources Institute Council, the International Association for Energy Economics, and the Asian Energy Institute. He has also contributed to the Economic Advisory Council to the Prime Minister of India; the Panel of Eminent Persons on Power, the Ministry of Power; Delhi Vision - Core Planning Group; the Advisory Board on Energy, reporting directly to the prime minister; the National Environmental Council, under the chairmanship of the prime minister; and the Oil Industry Restructuring Group, 'R' Group. Pachauri earned an M.S. in industrial engineering, a Ph.D. in industrial engineering, and a Ph.D. in economics from North Carolina State University.

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If you have time read this. It's illuminating and I especially like the concluding paragraphs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/21/AR2008012101646_2.html

The relevance of where a scientist buys fuel for his vehicle is utterly irrelevant.

Can you post some evidence of the accused to link him being out for all he can get? I'm not sure what that link is, but it doesnt seem to be related to the discussion.

 

[---Nemo---]

The relevance of where a scientist buys fuel for his vehicle is utterly irrelevant.

Can you post some evidence of the accused to link him being out for all he can get? I'm not sure what that link is, but it doesnt seem to be related to the discussion.

With all due respect Joe neither do graphs showing the increase in fossil fuel use since the industrial revolution. Surely you could lay any warming period in geological time against those graphs in order to demonstrate a supposed "correlation". By the same means you could probably show a link between fossil fuel burning and exam success rates.

Do you have any evidence showing a direct link between the two?

 

[vinegar hill]

can i ask this question then.if we all woke up tomorrow and every scientist on the planet had agreed that global warming WASN'T man made and was a natural cycle.would we still be taking measures to stop it?

 

[Joe Public]

With all due respect Joe neither do graphs showing the increase in fossil fuel use since the industrial revolution. Surely you could lay any warming period in geological time against those graphs in order to demonstrate a supposed "correlation". By the same means you could probably show a link between fossil fuel burning and exam success rates.

Do you have any evidence showing a direct link between the two?

Correlations are what lead scientists on to a possible theory, that theory is developed, researched and refined until we can reach a fairly certain scientific basis. The whole baisis of scientific methodology follows this path, everything we owe to modern day science has followed a similar root, of starting with a bulldozer, and going forward from there. The correlations are what led us to this point, the hundreds of peer reviewed scientific papers which took place independently from one another but point in the direction of anthropomorphic climate change are the evidence which has led us to the scientific consensus.

You are right, it is easy to put the correlations up against one another, that isnt where the science stops, its where it starts. It may be easy to theorise that exam results are directly linked to global warming, and even easier to be led to a scientific conclusion that the two were, infact, not related. If the correlations stand up to scrutiny, they are relevant as evidence.

can i ask this question then.if we all woke up tomorrow and every scientist on the planet had agreed that global warming WASN'T man made and was a natural cycle.would we still be taking measures to stop it?

Well its taken 20 years to get most of the world to believe them up to now, so perhaps it would take another 20 if "they" changed their mind. However, i'm not sure whether 7 hours is enough time for thousands of independent scientists working in differing fields of climatology, oceanography etc to reach a new scientific consensus. Do you have any real questions?

 

[youmademerealise]

can i ask this question then.if we all woke up tomorrow and every scientist on the planet had agreed that global warming WASN'T man made and was a natural cycle.would we still be taking measures to stop it?

Have a word with Tony. They already have.

 

[AB22 Easy Tiger]

Rajendra K. Pachauri
Rajendra K. Pachauri is director-general for The Energy and Resources Institute, which conducts research and provides professional support in the areas of energy, environment, forestry, biotechnology and the conservation of natural resources. Prior to this, Pachauri held managerial positions with the Diesel Locomotive works in Varanasi, and served as assistant professor and visiting faculty member in the Department of Economics and Business at North Carolina State University. In 2002, he was elected Chairman of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, and in 2001, he was awarded the Padma Bhushan by the president of India for his contributions to the environment. Pachauri taught at Yale University's School of Forestry and Environmental Studies in 2000 as a McCluskey Fellow. In 1999, he was appointed by Japan to the Board of Directors of the Institute for Global Environmental Strategies, Environment Agency. He is also president of the India Habitat Centre. Pachauri has sat on various international and national committees and boards, including the International Solar Energy Society, the World Resources Institute Council, the International Association for Energy Economics, and the Asian Energy Institute. He has also contributed to the Economic Advisory Council to the Prime Minister of India; the Panel of Eminent Persons on Power, the Ministry of Power; Delhi Vision - Core Planning Group; the Advisory Board on Energy, reporting directly to the prime minister; the National Environmental Council, under the chairmanship of the prime minister; and the Oil Industry Restructuring Group, 'R' Group. Pachauri earned an M.S. in industrial engineering, a Ph.D. in industrial engineering, and a Ph.D. in economics from North Carolina State University.

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If you have time read this. It's illuminating and I especially like the concluding paragraphs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/21/AR2008012101646_2.html

I'm due to meet up with Rajenda next week, It'll be interesting to chat to him about this.

 

[Joe Public]

I'm due to meet up with Rajenda next week, It'll be interesting to chat to him about this.

I'm still unsure as to what Tony is saying about the bloke, there didnt seem to be anything in the link he provided, or did I overlook it?

 

[AB22 Easy Tiger]

I'm still unsure as to what Tony is saying about the bloke, there didnt seem to be anything in the link he provided, or did I overlook it?

I meet with him regularly so I know him well enough to have a "frank" debate with him over this. It'll be interesting to hear his take on this small corner of the internet's discussion.

It'll cost me dinner no doubt.

 

[youmademerealise]

I meet with him regularly so I know him well enough to have a "frank" debate with him over this. It'll be interesting to hear his take on this small corner of the internet's discussion.

It'll cost me dinner no doubt.

Avoid cauliflower, sprouts, beans and pulses

 

[Tony]

I'm due to meet up with Rajenda next week, It'll be interesting to chat to him about this.

Ask him how he managed to wangle himself a job as Chairman of a group sponsored by one of the most powerful organisations on earth, was able to publish four reports in the name of that body that recommends the biggest boondoggle in history based on the manipulation of true scientific input and continues to hold a job in the third world with no competition where he advises companies, goverrnments and people on how to comply withe the recommendations of the very panel that he chairs.

I and a lot of other people will be interested in his answer

 

[youmademerealise]

I and a lot of other people will be interested in his answer

How many of them are called Tony?

 

[Joe Public]

I meet with him regularly so I know him well enough to have a "frank" debate with him over this. It'll be interesting to hear his take on this small corner of the internet's discussion.

It'll cost me dinner no doubt.

Dont be silly, you had me at hello.

I'm not sure what you can discuss with him about this, I cant make out that Tony was saying about him. He made out that the bloke was in it for himself, but the link didnt relate to that. Am I being thick? Did anyone find that the link was related to your sexual erm i mean dinner companion?

 

[Deleted member 361]

once again, when the climate change campaign is more about real action than simply gimmicks via tax then i will take it seriously.

- Off setting carbon with cash, easy jet have a drop down option now ffs
- taxing flights but extending airports and runways
- watching china, india etc spewing much more shite in the air than us yet telling us that not using carrier bags will make all the difference


three issues just for starters

 

[Tony]

I'm still unsure as to what Tony is saying about the bloke, there didnt seem to be anything in the link he provided, or did I overlook it?

You are either being deliberately obtuse or are as thick as three short planks. I subscribe to the latter.

You denigrate and insult everybody who questions your views, you look for the fossil fuel connection on every scientist quoted as expressing doubt or even downright disbelief of the theories you treasure and you can't see beyond your bloody nose that all you are doing is showing what a big headed know it all you really are. And above all while you delight in dishing it out, like Riley's dog you can't take it. Get a life!

Read my answer to Easy Tiger.

 

[Deleted member 361]

You are either being deliberately obtuse or are as thick as three short planks. I subscribe to the latter.

You denigrate and insult everybody who questions your views, you look for the fossil fuel connection on every scientist quoted as expressing doubt or even downright disbelief of the theories you treasure and you can't see beyond your bloody nose that all you are doing is showing what a big headed know it all you really are. And above all while you delight in dishing it out, like Riley's dog you can't take it. Get a life!

Read my answer to Easy Tiger.

sorry i had a chuckle at that

 

[Joe Public]

once again, when the climate change campaign is more about real action than simply gimmicks via tax then i will take it seriously.

- Off setting carbon with cash, easy jet have a drop down option now ffs
- taxing flights but extending airports and runways
- watching china, india etc spewing much more shite in the air than us yet telling us that not using carrier bags will make all the difference


three issues just for starters

They are separate issues, political ones, not scientific. They dont have anything to do with the science behind it. Climate change isnt a campaign.

 

[---Nemo---]

Correlations are what lead scientists on to a possible theory, that theory is developed, researched and refined until we can reach a fairly certain scientific basis. The whole baisis of scientific methodology follows this path, everything we owe to modern day science has followed a similar root, of starting with a bulldozer, and going forward from there. The correlations are what led us to this point, the hundreds of peer reviewed scientific papers which took place independently from one another but point in the direction of anthropomorphic climate change are the evidence which has led us to the scientific consensus.

You are right, it is easy to put the correlations up against one another, that isnt where the science stops, its where it starts. It may be easy to theorise that exam results are directly linked to global warming, and even easier to be led to a scientific conclusion that the two were, infact, not related. If the correlations stand up to scrutiny, they are relevant as evidence.

It's not correlations that are up against each other so far in this thread Joe, more a collection of disparate graphs devoid of correlation.

So where is this evidence? Point me in the direction of the most telling link between human activity and climate change. I want to see scientific papers that show the methodology, both graphical and mathematical, I've trawled the net all night and all I can find are what look like nebulous claims from both sides.

TBH it's much the same as the religion thread, you whack up a Vid of Dawkins saying absolutely nowt, the audience go into rapture, it looks for all the world like a new religion to the sceptic man.

 

[Deleted member 361]

They are separate issues, political ones, not scientific. They dont have anything to do with the science behind it. Climate change isnt a campaign.

could have fooled me

 

[Joe Public]

You are either being deliberately obtuse or are as thick as three short planks. I subscribe to the latter.

You denigrate and insult everybody who questions your views, you look for the fossil fuel connection on every scientist quoted as expressing doubt or even downright disbelief of the theories you treasure and you can't see beyond your bloody nose that all you are doing is showing what a big headed know it all you really are. And above all while you delight in dishing it out, like Riley's dog you can't take it. Get a life!

Read my answer to Easy Tiger.

Some good personal insults there again Tony, keep up the good work, youre doing a grand job of ruining what little argument you did have in this thread. I was asking what the link was meant to be, can you cut and paste it? It didnt seem to link to anything at all related to the discussion. Can you post credible evidence of the accusations you made towards Rejenda, or are you just slinging mud at whoever comes in your general direction today?