Follow on redundancy questions

Unfortunately I know what the result will be. Was just a bit thrown by the use of the word redundancy when I have been told that I wouldn’t be offered redundancy.


Unfortunately I can’t spend money I don’t have (and it would be a lot) on a gamble.

I’m sure the employers know what they pay and know what legal representation costs so can do as they wish.

Probably why it’s a grey area. Very few test cases make it to tribunal.
It becomes a matter of principle.

The question is, was the alternative employment suitable? If it was and you rejected then that is likely to have a different outcome than if it wasn’t suitable and you rejected.

Suitability will be outlined by the trust no doubt with government / ACAS guidelines.

Seriously, ask on the CIPD forum as you get senior HR people answering forum posts and you’ll never get the obligatory fuck off, pics or SEB answers. If it doesn’t let non-members PM me and I’ll ask for you.
 


It becomes a matter of principle.

The question is, was the alternative employment suitable? If it was and you rejected then that is likely to have a different outcome than if it wasn’t suitable and you rejected.

Suitability will be outlined by the trust no doubt with government / ACAS guidelines.

Seriously, ask on the CIPD forum as you get senior HR people answering forum posts and you’ll never get the obligatory fuck off, pics or SEB answers. If it doesn’t let non-members PM me and I’ll ask for you.

Very good advice.

@sadders have you checked your home insurance (and potentially bank accounts / pension cover) to see if you have legal cover?
 
Have not read this thread all the way through but big changes coming in from April this year as regards redundancy payments (get yourself on google). If you can get out before April might save you a lot of money. Presume you are in Unison. Absolute waste of time when I left local govt. Would have been better putting the money in a pot and using it to get my own legal advice. They will give you a free pen but try getting legal advice other than a meeting with a local rep. no chance.
 
Have not read this thread all the way through but big changes coming in from April this year as regards redundancy payments (get yourself on google). If you can get out before April might save you a lot of money. Presume you are in Unison. Absolute waste of time when I left local govt. Would have been better putting the money in a pot and using it to get my own legal advice. They will give you a free pen but try getting legal advice other than a meeting with a local rep. no chance.
Interested to see what changes, I’m not in HR but have dealt with and been through redundancy.

What’s the score with new legislation?
 
1) Unions are OK until you need them

2) Take legal advice ASAP. You'll get an hour for nowt. Or Citizens Advice

RE your point 1) I sadly agree. They f***ing love taking subs and getting time 'off the floor' for union business, but if you are in the clarts the standard response is: 'We try not to get involved in matters of company policy'.
 
Unfortunately I know what the result will be. Was just a bit thrown by the use of the word redundancy when I have been told that I wouldn’t be offered redundancy.


Unfortunately I can’t spend money I don’t have (and it would be a lot) on a gamble.

I’m sure the employers know what they pay and know what legal representation costs so can do as they wish.

Probably why it’s a grey area. Very few test cases make it to tribunal.

I'm not neccesarily suggesting hiring a barrister, and going straight to an ET. I would start by getting an appointment with a very good employment lawyer.

If you can't afford that ask your union to pay for it, or see if your household or other insurance policies has a legal expenses clause. I realise that searching your insurance policy sounds daft, but I know of at least one case where a JrDr took the NHS to court paid for by their insurers.

If none of that works go to CAB.

Once you have done that go to the meeting, ask for their offer in writing, go home and consider it.

And remember.... one of the main reason why few cases go to Tribunal is that NHS Trusts often settle before an ET.

If you don't mind me asking.... which NHS Trust?
 
RE your point 1) I sadly agree. They f***ing love taking subs and getting time 'off the floor' for union business, but if you are in the clarts the standard response is: 'We try not to get involved in matters of company policy'.
In my limited experience of unions they'll fight to the death for some arshole who's crap at his job or always on the sick or making a spurious claim against his employer but when a genuine bloke has a grievance they don't give a fuck .
 
Just as a follow up.

I had a formal meeting today where I was told that I was being dismissed on the grounds of redundancy (as expected). They have allowed me to not serve my full notice so leave on 22nd of next month. No package offered.

Realistically there is no point in going to tribunal as I am told proving that 'suitable alternative employment' is not suitable is difficult so union and no win no fee solicitors wont touch me. No point self representing and I cant afford to pay for a solicitor on what would be an expensive gamble.

I was told by HR during the meeting that I could appeal their decision within 15 days of the meeting. It was pointed out that this would be overseen by an independent person and is mainly about points of order on the consultation process. I believe they followed the process to the letter. The only issue I have is my belief that the suitable alternative employment was not suitable. Is this something that I should take to appeal or is appeal the wrong process to go to? If its the latter I will just leave it and move on.
 
I don't know employment law but it sounds off to me that no redundancy package is there.
No, it's fine. In their eyes he has refused what they deem as SAE.

I already suggested lodging a grievance more than once. I still stand by that being your best hope.
 
Just as a follow up.

I had a formal meeting today where I was told that I was being dismissed on the grounds of redundancy (as expected). They have allowed me to not serve my full notice so leave on 22nd of next month. No package offered.

Realistically there is no point in going to tribunal as I am told proving that 'suitable alternative employment' is not suitable is difficult so union and no win no fee solicitors wont touch me. No point self representing and I cant afford to pay for a solicitor on what would be an expensive gamble.

I was told by HR during the meeting that I could appeal their decision within 15 days of the meeting. It was pointed out that this would be overseen by an independent person and is mainly about points of order on the consultation process. I believe they followed the process to the letter. The only issue I have is my belief that the suitable alternative employment was not suitable. Is this something that I should take to appeal or is appeal the wrong process to go to? If its the latter I will just leave it and move on.

I'd speak to a lawyer mate. Redundancy is redundancy if that''s the grounds they are giving and you qualify you should have it. You haven't resigned have you?
 
I'd speak to a lawyer mate. Redundancy is redundancy if that''s the grounds they are giving and you qualify you should have it. You haven't resigned have you?
He did (in their eyes) get offered a suitable replacement role so that changes things.

Aside from the legalities I just don’t know how your manager / managers manager / whoever can sleep sound at night knowing they’ve not only deprived a loyal, hardworking ‘ex’-member of staff of not only their job but also the service and security they had earned through the length of service you’d completed.

I’ve been made redundant and been that person making people redundant (it is a fairly inevitable outcome in some industries today) and I felt much better about the whole thing when I knew everyone had been given the same opportunities and the correct payout as per the company policy which I fought for (didn’t have to too much) each and every time.

Disgusting behaviour from those involved to be fair regardless of personal feeling towards you or loyalty to the employer. It’s an ethical issue which I hope they become a victim of themselves one day.
 
RE your point 1) I sadly agree. They f***ing love taking subs and getting time 'off the floor' for union business, but if you are in the clarts the standard response is: 'We try not to get involved in matters of company policy'.

What an absolute load of turd.
 
Just as a follow up.

I had a formal meeting today where I was told that I was being dismissed on the grounds of redundancy (as expected). They have allowed me to not serve my full notice so leave on 22nd of next month. No package offered.

Realistically there is no point in going to tribunal as I am told proving that 'suitable alternative employment' is not suitable is difficult so union and no win no fee solicitors wont touch me. No point self representing and I cant afford to pay for a solicitor on what would be an expensive gamble.

I was told by HR during the meeting that I could appeal their decision within 15 days of the meeting. It was pointed out that this would be overseen by an independent person and is mainly about points of order on the consultation process. I believe they followed the process to the letter. The only issue I have is my belief that the suitable alternative employment was not suitable. Is this something that I should take to appeal or is appeal the wrong process to go to? If its the latter I will just leave it and move on.
Sorry to hear you got shafted in the end. I had a feeling you would as I said they're proper bastards.
 

Back
Top