Failure to sign striker cost us


‘Badly’ is subjective for me, Perry. Certainly I’d argue that it wasn’t the difference between promotion and not. Ultimately that fell on the injuries in defence - where we had 9 first team options in the squad (which I’d argue is a fairly sensible number). A striker would have meant a more comfortable route into the playoffs but there’s very little chance it would have bridged the gap to the automatics.

The injuries in defence in reality have cost us right at the end and in the play offs, which we managed to get through. So that's a fair enough comment. But its certainly hampered us in many games. As you say likely not enough to bridge the gap, but I guess that depends on the quality of the striker.

Having a decent striker may have helped us get more points and get higher and miss Luton or even help us in an attacking sense away from home to ease the pressure at the back.
 
Someone has definitely logged into your account on this :( It's not you never has been.

Or perhaps woe wouldnt have played with the fluidity we did that was such a strength in our attacking play that git us into the playoffs. Those outstanding goals at WBA, PNE, Norwich, Watford that won games or got vital points were all down to the slick clever play and movement of the likes of Pritchard, Diallo, Geldhart, Ba, Roberts etc. Now a big plank might have helped against Luton but I doubt very much we would have got there with one in the team. If you are talking about a top class replacement for Stewart then we all agree.
It's all ifs and buts.
The thing is we'll never know because we didn't have that option.
 
The injuries in defence in reality have cost us right at the end and in the play offs, which we managed to get through. So that's a fair enough comment. But its certainly hampered us in many games. As you say likely not enough to bridge the gap, but I guess that depends on the quality of the striker.

Having a decent striker may have helped us get more points and get higher and miss Luton or even help us in an attacking sense away from home to ease the pressure at the back.
Its all guess work. What we can say with some certainty is that in our last three games we conceded 4 goals as a direct result of having no defenders. We lost our strikers but didn't stop scoring goals so, ultimately, it was the defence that cost us.
 
It's all ifs and buts.
The thing is we'll never know because we didn't have that option.
It depends what you determine as success. We know for certain without a big plank we played some great stuff and made the play offs. We would probably have done worse with a big plank up front but its hard to see how we would have done better.
 
It depends what you determine as success. We know for certain without a big plank we played some great stuff and made the play offs. We would probably have done worse with a big plank up front but its hard to see how we would have done better.
Wee mentioned a big plank like?
 
Wee mentioned a big plank like?
I think this is the point. It all comes down to the quality of a forward we brought in. If we were able to get a forward either by signing or a loan similar in ability and stature to Stewart even if a tiny downgrade then it could have made the difference. It's fair to criticism the club for that. however I think we would have been worse off just bringing in anyone (the lies of Martin and Wickham) etc because we found a way of playing quality football and scoring goals with the quality attacking players we have. Signing those types of players would imo have hampered us rather than improved us.
 
Someone has definitely logged into your account on this :( It's not you never has been.

Or perhaps woe wouldnt have played with the fluidity we did that was such a strength in our attacking play that git us into the playoffs. Those outstanding goals at WBA, PNE, Norwich, Watford that won games or got vital points were all down to the slick clever play and movement of the likes of Pritchard, Diallo, Geldhart, Ba, Roberts etc. Now a big plank might have helped against Luton but I doubt very much we would have got there with one in the team. If you are talking about a top class replacement for Stewart then we all agree.

You talk about fluidity but how much has Gelhardt really been responsible for in that and had an effect on? I can count on the fingers on one hand the games where I think he's had a real positive effect. Are sides with one big immobile forward, but tons of smaller players suddenly not allowed to be fluid like?

Having one big slow centre forward doesn't mean you forgoe all that fluidity, let's be honest Gelhardt wasn't the catalyst or even involved in a lot of it, the odd ball played into him and moved on, a touch here and there - are we saying someone bang average but physical with those players around him couldn't have done much of that, but also maybe added some physicality and height?

Mentioning some of those games as if we couldn't have had the good play by Prichard and Cirkin running from deep or a Cirkin header against WBA or played well against Preston. Or Watford where Onien scored a tap in, typical centre forward goal you might say or a worldie from Roberts at the end.

What about the games where sides have dropped in deep and we have no alternative but to try and play around them and we've crossed to no one? What about the lack of physicality?

One player man, your making it sound like one big slow forward, an option not and out and out regular, turns us into Wimbledon mk2.
I think this is the point. It all comes down to the quality of a forward we brought in. If we were able to get a forward either by signing or a loan similar in ability and stature to Stewart even if a tiny downgrade then it could have made the difference. It's fair to criticism the club for that. however I think we would have been worse off just bringing in anyone (the lies of Martin and Wickham) etc because we found a way of playing quality football and scoring goals with the quality attacking players we have. Signing those types of players would imo have hampered us rather than improved us.

We didn't really find a way though, we just had a lot of good attacking players. I think not signing an actual forward hampered us and it was evident in so many games at home, where either a bit of pace or physicality was desperately needed at times, nevermind a focal point and someone capable in the air at set pieces at either end. Away from home things were generally a bit more open and we were given the space to counter, which we generally needed to create chances.

It's mad because you're so intent on the idea the forward had to as good as Stewart or Simms to be worthwhile yet we signed one and played one who wasn't even a forward and took ages to even have any sort of positive effect and done no better in the role than Prichard who occupied it in the games earlier in the season, when someone with experience and physicality/good in the air, is certainly things we were lacking come the end of the season. To suggest it wasn't even worth considering or would have hampered us laughable - we're not prime Barcelona.
 
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6 million is what Peterbrough were asking rip off yeah he was banging goals in league 1 got my doubts in the championship would have been money down the drain
 
You talk about fluidity but how much has Gelhardt really been responsible for in that and had an effect on? I can count on the fingers on one hand the games where I think he's had a real positive effect. Are sides with one big immobile forward, but tons of smaller players suddenly not allowed to be fluid like?

Having one big slow centre forward doesn't mean you forgoe all that fluidity, let's be honest Gelhardt wasn't the catalyst or even involved in a lot of it, the odd ball played into him and moved on, a touch here and there - are we saying someone bang average but physical with those players around him couldn't have done much of that, but also maybe added some physicality and height?

Mentioning some of those games as if we couldn't have had the good play by Prichard and Cirkin running from deep or a Cirkin header against WBA or played well against Preston. Or Watford where Onien scored a tap in, typical centre forward goal you might say or a worldie from Roberts at the end.

What about the games where sides have dropped in deep and we have no alternative but to try and play around them and we've crossed to no one? What about the lack of physicality?

One player man, your making it sound like one big slow forward, an option not and out and out regular, turns us into Wimbledon mk2.
The fluidity has been there for you to see with your own eyes and you can’t play like that without everyone playing their part. Roberts, Diallo, Pritchard have been the big influences but they don’t get those pockets of space without Geldhart dropping deep bringing a player with him. Geldhart has been moderate and played a small part but you don’t get that from a slow, immobile, clapped out centre forward like Martin who imo would stop us playing our game rather than enhance it.

I’m not sure where you are going with this. One minute you are saying he’s rubbish and the next you are saying we should have signed him.
You talk about fluidity but how much has Gelhardt really been responsible for in that and had an effect on? I can count on the fingers on one hand the games where I think he's had a real positive effect. Are sides with one big immobile forward, but tons of smaller players suddenly not allowed to be fluid like?

Having one big slow centre forward doesn't mean you forgoe all that fluidity, let's be honest Gelhardt wasn't the catalyst or even involved in a lot of it, the odd ball played into him and moved on, a touch here and there - are we saying someone bang average but physical with those players around him couldn't have done much of that, but also maybe added some physicality and height?

Mentioning some of those games as if we couldn't have had the good play by Prichard and Cirkin running from deep or a Cirkin header against WBA or played well against Preston. Or Watford where Onien scored a tap in, typical centre forward goal you might say or a worldie from Roberts at the end.

What about the games where sides have dropped in deep and we have no alternative but to try and play around them and we've crossed to no one? What about the lack of physicality?

One player man, your making it sound like one big slow forward, an option not and out and out regular, turns us into Wimbledon mk2.


We didn't really find a way though, we just had a lot of good attacking players. I think not signing an actual forward hampered us and it was evident in so many games at home, where either a bit of pace or physicality was desperately needed at times, nevermind a focal point and someone capable in the air at set pieces at either end. Away from home things were generally a bit more open and we were given the space to counter, which we generally needed to create chances.

It's mad because you're so intent on the idea the forward had to as good as Stewart or Simms to be worthwhile yet we signed one and played one who wasn't even a forward and took ages to even have any sort of positive effect and done no better in the role than Prichard who occupied it in the games earlier in the season, when someone with experience and physicality/good in the air, is certainly things we were lacking come the end of the season. To suggest it wasn't even worth considering or would have hampered us laughable - we're not prime Barcelona.
I said a player that was a slight downgrade on Stewart but similar traits would have been a good signing. I also said it was laughable to suggest Chris Martin was that man. Ffs we got to the play offs. Your argument weeks ago was that you accepted we wouldn’t get to the play offs but by not signing Chris Martin or a player of that ilk the season would drift off, we would have a low finish and there would be no impetus going into next season. Now that we got to the play offs due to our attacking play it’s Chris Martin would have been the difference between the play offs and promotion.
 
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The fluidity has been there for you to see with your own eyes and you can’t play like that without everyone playing their part. Roberts, Diallo, Pritchard have been the big influences but they don’t get those pockets of space without Geldhart dropping deep bringing a player with him. Geldhart has been moderate and played a small part but you don’t get that from a slow, immobile, clapped out centre forward like Martin who imo would stop us playing our game rather than enhance it.

I’m not sure where you are going with this. One minute you are saying he’s rubbish and the next you are saying we should have signed him.

We play fluid football because that's what Mowbray plays and also because we have many attacking, good fluid footballers. One big centre forward wouldn't hamper that, it may well create a bit of space and give a physical edge to assist them to play in.

Whether it be with Sam Gallagher up top at Blackburn, Hartson, Beattie, Fortune or Bednar at WBA, Fortune again at Celtic, Samara at Celtic and Jutkiewicz at Boro, most of whom he signed himself, Mowbray generally plays with a big man with other good footballers playing around them.

Having a player of the ilk ofMartin wouldn't stop Amad, Clarke, Prichard, Neil, Ekwah, Cirkin, Michut, Roberts, Ba etc being fluid, because Mowbray has been influenced by the Brazil side of 1970 and has always tried to play that way, even when as a result his sides have been too open. But it might just help with experience, physically or give an alternative from someone with years of experience at this level.
I said a player that was a slight downgrade on Stewart but similar traits would have been a good signing. I also said it was laughable to suggest Chris Martin was that man. Ffs we got to the play offs. Your argument weeks ago was that you accepted we wouldn’t get to the play offs but by not signing Chris Martin or a player of that ilk the season would drift off, we would have a low finish and there would be no impetus going into next season. Now that we got to the play offs due to our attacking play it’s Chris Martin would have been the difference between the play offs and promotion.

Hold on a minute- I said we likely wouldn't get to the play offs and we did. Great.

I have never said Martin would have made us make automatic since we made the play offs or that we'd have definitely done better in the play offs with him.

I have just pointed out that i think he could have helped on the way or even in the Luton games, because Geldhart has largely been rubbish and having a physical and aerial alternative, someone used to the level with experience, IMO, couldn't likely have been worse.

The only reason I've mentioned it is because you were already going on about it today in this thread, using the fact we got to the play offs, with a terrible Home record and having to overcome adversity as justification that we right not to sign him or a player of his ilk.
 
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It didn't really, scoring goals was never an issue for us. Our defence was our biggest weakness and that was mainly due to the many injuries we've had to contend with.
Yup.

And I can see what people are saying about a striker, but we wouldn’t have adapted like we did, and possibly reverted to hoofing it more often and losing more. There’s no guarantees in footie.
 
Anyone see Clarke Harris last night? He was absolutely dogshite. Probably touched the ball about 5 times, one of them was a toe punted clearance out of his 6 yard box that led to Wednesday 4th goal. But aye, would've made a massive difference if he was in our team the other night. 🙄
 
It didn't really, scoring goals was never an issue for us. Our defence was our biggest weakness and that was mainly due to the many injuries we've had to contend with.
Correct. 4th in goals for. 11th in goals against. Boro were 3 behind only Burnley in the goals stakes but had 1 more goal against than us and they finished 4th.

The team were out of this world but it was injuries across the board that derailed us. We do need more strikers than almost any department though. Our main striker being injured and a transfer doubt prior, leaving a loan player who was recalled to be replaced by a player who needed a number 9 to play off cannot happen again. This club has learned and grown from previous mistakes though.
 

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