F1 2022


This is why it's such an almighty clusterfuck, they've written a leeway into the rules, but then any breach also suggests a points deduction, just in varying severity. With the addition of an option to reduce wind tunnel time, spending etc it just becomes a nightmare to decide what punishment is appropriate. The punishments should have been black and white from the start.

I suspect you're right about the 5% tier being there for that reason, if 3 or 4 teams had strayed over and 1 or 2 took the piss, they had the perfect opportunity to punish them properly. What they didn't expect was that only one team would cheat and that they would have been the most controversial champion since 1994.

Aye the whole thing is daft. Literally owt from a quid fine to points docked so easy for them to take an easy way out. As only one team as infringed they possibly have a chance to at least make a bit of an example out of them but I can't see anything more than a fine and wind tunnel restriction to try and give them a gap to catch up on next season.

If they are going to strip titles/dock points etc there can't really be any grey area then nobody can really wriggle out of anything. Mind, that being said RB's issue seems to be they think they are under the cap and FIA don't so this could run on a while now with both having to justify their positions which will ultimately boil down to interpretation and fuck knows who that will stand up either way when the rules themselves are pretty hazey.
 
He says the same thing the FIA did, that RBR breached the cost cap, as opposed to just a procedural issue.

Agreed, and apologies. It is a badly organised article IMO, jumping between the issues and linked quotes, but you're right. Interesting to see what action they take, they made a mess of it so far clearly.

Nope you’ve come on here knowing fine well they’ve overspent and spouted pap to get a rise. You do it all the time on this thread.
You're arse. Sorry if my apologies spoils your drivel.
 
It's the context of 'costs for what, when, and into what budget'.

The bottom line is you are either in budget or not.
Just like a car is legal or illegal.

But how you get there is what's up for interpretation and that is what Red Bull will clearly be arguing if the punishment is not to their liking.

Not saying it's right, just making the point, that Red Bull could legitimately believe they are under budget but in fact not be as the FIA are claiming.
They can believe it all they want. If they’re over and pretty much every other team is under it they have to be punished. It’s no coincidence they’re ahead of everyone else.
 
Aye the whole thing is daft. Literally owt from a quid fine to points docked so easy for them to take an easy way out. As only one team as infringed they possibly have a chance to at least make a bit of an example out of them but I can't see anything more than a fine and wind tunnel restriction to try and give them a gap to catch up on next season.

If they are going to strip titles/dock points etc there can't really be any grey area then nobody can really wriggle out of anything. Mind, that being said RB's issue seems to be they think they are under the cap and FIA don't so this could run on a while now with both having to justify their positions which will ultimately boil down to interpretation and fuck knows who that will stand up either way when the rules themselves are pretty hazey.
And then there are the Horner interviews where he suggested he knew they would be over and were banking on others also being in the same boat. It's a complete mess, and even trying to view it dispassionately, the only way out for the FIA is to make a big example of them so there is a genuine deterrent for others.
 
A gentle reminder that whatever anyone's opinion and how wrong they may be (me in this case) - abusive posts are not tolerated on the forum, many slip through but when a mod is actually posting on that thread of course they will not towards anyone.
 
I think my first move if I were Mercedes now would be to overspend by whatever they think RB have, fit the new floor and suspension to one car only and prove how much time can be gained by overspending on the cost cap. What are they gonna do? Fine them? Take points off them? Who cares, seasons dead anyway. If the Merc can go I don’t know - 1-1.5 seconds faster with the new upgrades then it gives the FIA even less choice and backs them right into a corner.
 
You know what’s going to happen it’s a fine a slap on the wrist and a warning that if any other team breaks it then a heavier punishment. Effectively it’s a punishment for the other 9 teams.

Seems entirely wrong to me, if there are a set of rules and are broken a relevant punishment should be put in place. Provblem here is 'relevant' could/would/should be huge. They've given themselves leeway wit this 5% stuff but that will just cause a legal minefield now. One thing we can all agree on is the FIA have got it wrong yet again and are damaging the sport with their incompetence.
 
And then there are the Horner interviews where he suggested he knew they would be over and were banking on others also being in the same boat. It's a complete mess, and even trying to view it dispassionately, the only way out for the FIA is to make a big example of them so there is a genuine deterrent for others.

Haven't seen the Horner interviews but I did say earlier on in the thread that I suspected RB thought loads were going to go over (and were probably banking on it) so would make sense.
 
I think my first move if I were Mercedes now would be to overspend by whatever they think RB have, fit the new floor and suspension to one car only and prove how much time can be gained by overspending on the cost cap. What are they gonna do? Fine them? Take points off them? Who cares, seasons dead anyway. If the Merc can go I don’t know - 1-1.5 seconds faster with the new upgrades then it gives the FIA even less choice and backs them right into a corner.

Good shout - they've nothing to lose and there is no testing anything like as effective as actual race weekends.
They can believe it all they want. If they’re over and pretty much every other team is under it they have to be punished. It’s no coincidence they’re ahead of everyone else.

TBF we don't know it's a coincidence or not, that's the scale of the mess - it could be as no one could ever prove it either way realistically. That means (to me) the punishment has to err on severe for the sake of the sport.

At first thought I think the politically safest way (I'm not suggesting the correct way) would be a Bolton situation with RBR drivers starting on -100 points next season.
 
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I think my first move if I were Mercedes now would be to overspend by whatever they think RB have, fit the new floor and suspension to one car only and prove how much time can be gained by overspending on the cost cap. What are they gonna do? Fine them? Take points off them? Who cares, seasons dead anyway. If the Merc can go I don’t know - 1-1.5 seconds faster with the new upgrades then it gives the FIA even less choice and backs them right into a corner.

Could take points off them for the beginning of next season but that's another grey area. Like even if teams get docked points it doesn't say when. Seems daft docking points for the previous season after the fact when it makes no difference anyway but then you incentivise over spending to make up for the points you've had docked for the upcoming season, or to go all out knowing you it won't be till the following year you lose points.

I'm not even convinced docking points is enough of a disadvantage (obviously depending on points docked). Needs to be more based on limiting R&D or something.

The whole thing is so half arsed and this 5% bollocks is just a window to take the piss a bit but not too much.
 
Could take points off them for the beginning of next season but that's another grey area. Like even if teams get docked points it doesn't say when. Seems daft docking points for the previous season after the fact when it makes no difference anyway but then you incentivise over spending to make up for the points you've had docked for the upcoming season, or to go all out knowing you it won't be till the following year you lose points.

I'm not even convinced docking points is enough of a disadvantage (obviously depending on points docked). Needs to be more based on limiting R&D or something.

The whole thing is so half arsed and this 5% bollocks is just a window to take the piss a bit but not too much.
The time to dock points is the one thing that is very clearly stated to be the year of the offence. So any docking would be in 2022 for Mercedes in this scenario, or 2021 for Red Bull. I’m sure Mercedes would be very happy to be docked in 2022, as they’d lose nothing and would mean they’d have to dock Red Bull in 2021, with an obvious benefit to Mercedes.

More to the point, if they demonstrate on international TV that even just £500k worth of overspend is worth in excess of a second by running Lewis with the upgrades and George without at the next race, then that piles on the pressure to the FIA by the worlds media to dock RB points for 2021. I think at that point a LOT of questions would be asked.
 
The time to dock points is the one thing that is very clearly stated to be the year of the offence. So any docking would be in 2022 for Mercedes in this scenario, or 2021 for Red Bull. I’m sure Mercedes would be very happy to be docked in 2022, as they’d lose nothing and would mean they’d have to dock Red Bull in 2021, with an obvious benefit to Mercedes.

More to the point, if they demonstrate on international TV that even just £500k worth of overspend is worth in excess of a second by running Lewis with the upgrades and George without at the next race, then that piles on the pressure to the FIA by the worlds media to dock RB points for 2021. I think at that point a LOT of questions would be asked.

This is the thing though. There's nowt stopping Merc doing that now and a points deduction this season would be no different to no punishment at all so incentivise teams to spunk absolute fortunes now to earn an advantage next year. Then all teams just do it regardless.

I think Toto said 4 million quid is worth about half a second.

FIA's left themselves open to it with this daft 5% minor bollocks.
 

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