F1 2019

cosmicchris00

Midfield
I know nothing about F1 as I don't follow it but a fella I've worked with for years has had his Lad working with Mercedes F1 design team the last two years. It's been good getting snippets back how it's structured and the bonus systems etc.
Anyway, the lad works in Engine design and apparently nearly all of their most experienced designers have quit with most heading to McLaren, same with most of the other departments.
Next seasons engine is already designed but reckons they'll struggle after that and McLaren will benefit from the new influx.
Merc will tire of F1 at some point just as the fans will, so there won't be any point going on.

Perhaps they already have
 

errant

Striker
Odd, given that mclaren buy their engines from Renault
I presume that’s who have poached them if they’re engineers on the combustion engine side.

Although engine in the OPs terms could include the entire power train (like cooling), plus McLaren are a big operation and it may not only be the racing division doing the hoovering up. The electronics op had (still does?) the F1 in-car black box / management contract...

Are merc engines still run out of Mario Illien’s brixworth operation?

All races should still be on free to air.
That ship has sailed...
 
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Pancho

Striker
Staff member
As I say I don’t follow it so don’t know the ins and outs but did Mercedes have a problem with the car overheating in the last couple of races? If so apparently the tweaked cooling part is sat on the desk of a lad who jacked and no one knows about it as everyone else has gone or is going
Yes they had overheating problems in Austria.

I could be wrong but the way Merecedes seem to work I'd be very surprised if they allowed their development to be compromised by staff churn.

Odd, given that mclaren buy their engines from Renault
As errant has already said there will be transferrable skills in all sorts of departments. Cooling, electronics, installation etc.
 
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aceman

Midfield
The biggest thing I've never understood with F1 is why each manufacturer doesnt just build their own engine. Fair enough the smaller teams couldnt possibly afford it but the likes of McLaren, RedBull why the hell do they not just build their own engines instead of paying fortunes for another manufacturers to then spend years complaining it doesnt provide them with enough power.
 
Agreed, lost the flow completely since they got rid of Bridge and Priory. They could still have kept that and the fan arena section there now.



Agreed as well. The new Hockenheim is awful, only memorable races have been the 'Fernando is faster than you' Ferrari team orders incident and Vettel crashing out last year... standard Tilke-drome for you.

Nothing replaces the roar of a V10 (although they are sadly the past too) blasting through the old straights in the forest bouncing off the rev limiter at 18,000 rpm and the driver hurling on the brakes into the chicanes, then emerging back into the arena section with the packed grandstands full of colour and people blowing airhorns. Last year the place was half empty.

*Awaits the dinosaur remarks*
100% agreed
 

Pancho

Striker
Staff member
The biggest thing I've never understood with F1 is why each manufacturer doesnt just build their own engine. Fair enough the smaller teams couldnt possibly afford it but the likes of McLaren, RedBull why the hell do they not just build their own engines instead of paying fortunes for another manufacturers to then spend years complaining it doesnt provide them with enough power.
Because the costs of designing, building and developing a F1 engine are huge. In the hybrid era the job is even more complex.

By comparison, building and running a racing team is a relatively simple exercise.

This is why historically there have always been more teams than engine manufacturers. To date really only Ferrari have managed to do both consistently over time, although Merc are making a decent fist of it - for now.
 
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The Resource

Central Defender
The biggest thing I've never understood with F1 is why each manufacturer doesnt just build their own engine. Fair enough the smaller teams couldnt possibly afford it but the likes of McLaren, RedBull why the hell do they not just build their own engines instead of paying fortunes for another manufacturers to then spend years complaining it doesnt provide them with enough power.
The costs would be rediculous. An entire engine plant would need to be built for at most 10 engines per year. Yes there is the development factor, but that is limited. It wouldn't make sense or be cost effective. You'd struggle to get the best people in that you would need to work on that kind of set up.
 

Billy Fish

Striker
Yes they had overheating problems in Austria.

I could be wrong but the way Merecedes seem to work I'd be very surprised if they allowed their development to be compromised by staff churn.



As errant has already said there will be transferrable skills in all sorts of departments. Cooling, electronics, installation etc.
You wouldn't think so but as soon as anyone puts in their resignation they're immediately takien back to clear their desk and escorted out of the premises. No handover to other members of the team, straight out the door. It wouldn't take many people to go in a short space of time to hit an organisation hard and that's where they're currently at from what it sounds like. From what he says the average age of the development team is now 27.
 

JohnSmithUK

Midfield
You wouldn't think so but as soon as anyone puts in their resignation they're immediately takien back to clear their desk and escorted out of the premises. No handover to other members of the team, straight out the door. It wouldn't take many people to go in a short space of time to hit an organisation hard and that's where they're currently at from what it sounds like. From what he says the average age of the development team is now 27.
Other than the concepts to how to fit inside the rules, is F1 design a lone wolf activity in teams? I always thought the named designers were a figurehead of a much larger team.
 

errant

Striker
You wouldn't think so but as soon as anyone puts in their resignation they're immediately takien back to clear their desk and escorted out of the premises. No handover to other members of the team, straight out the door.
I assume for gardening leaves... James Key had a 9 month wait till he was able to take over the reins at McLaren.

Every team wants the best drivers, best technical directors and I’m sure that extends to best cooling designers as well... as Merc have been out there so long it’s upto James Allison to keep on top of his game.

I wonder if this is the Siedl or Key effect at McLaren?

Other than the concepts to how to fit inside the rules, is F1 design a lone wolf activity in teams? I always thought the named designers were a figurehead of a much larger team.
Certainly the beyond the grid podcast with James Allison, he distanced himself from personal glory at every turn always referring to the teams of designers back at the factory... I should imagine the massive work forces these teams have now in some ways minimise staff changes when compared to the 70s/80s/90s...

A great episode to listen to btw...
 
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aceman

Midfield
Because the costs of designing, building and developing a F1 engine are huge. In the hybrid era the job is even more complex.

By comparison, building and running a racing team is a relatively simple exercise.

This is why historically there have always been more teams than engine manufacturers. To date really only Ferrari have managed to do both consistently over time, although Merc are making a decent fist of it - for now.
If Mercedes and Ferrari can afford it I'm almost certain Red Bull and McLaren could aswell.
 

Pancho

Striker
Staff member
If Mercedes and Ferrari can afford it I'm almost certain Red Bull and McLaren could aswell.
Mercedes and Fiat owned Ferrari are borh massive global commercial enterprises with huge financial resources.

Red Bull Racing and McLaren, as impressive as both companies have been in F1, are financial tiddlers by comparison.

And that's exactly why they run third party engines.
 
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cosmicchris00

Midfield
The biggest thing I've never understood with F1 is why each manufacturer doesnt just build their own engine. Fair enough the smaller teams couldnt possibly afford it but the likes of McLaren, RedBull why the hell do they not just build their own engines instead of paying fortunes for another manufacturers to then spend years complaining it doesnt provide them with enough power.
The capital expenditure, required levels of expertise and ongoing overheads are immense.

That's why genuine multi national automotive manufacturers are the only ones that do it.

McLaren are talking about engines but they'll need to have a strong growth plan to sustain an F1 engine which will presumably be supplemented by a road unit too

If Mercedes and Ferrari can afford it I'm almost certain Red Bull and McLaren could aswell.
You'd be astonished what's required just to build a family hatch engine.

F1 engines are seriously cutting edge pieces of kit.
 
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JohnSmithUK

Midfield
Usual suspects in the bottom 4 so far.

Well played Perez.

Vettel needing softs to get into Q3. Not great signs for Ferrari.

Bottas pole by 6 thousandths. Seb way off pace.
 
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PTR

Striker
Mercedes and Fiat owned Ferrari are borh massive global commercial enterprises with huge financial resources.
Red Bull Racing and McLaren, as impressive as both companies have been in F1, are financial tiddlers by comparison.
And that's exactly why they run third party engines.
Absolutely this. AND on top of that, there are other racing series out there and some teams already have "engine R&D" setups, and running an F1 engine is just another product on top of what they already do.

Seb way off pace.
This was the main take away today. He's just well out of sorts.
I knew Le Clerck would beat him this season, or at least run him close. Watched him utterly destroy the field in F2 a couple of years back like nothing I've ever seen.
 
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aceman

Midfield
Mercedes and Fiat owned Ferrari are borh massive global commercial enterprises with huge financial resources.

Red Bull Racing and McLaren, as impressive as both companies have been in F1, are financial tiddlers by comparison.

And that's exactly why they run third party engines.
I'm hearing you dont get me wrong. I just think they could still do it. Even Renault do it. Mateschitz owns 50% of Redbull man and hes the 50th richest man on the planet.
 

Pancho

Striker
Staff member
I'm hearing you dont get me wrong. I just think they could still do it. Even Renault do it. Mateschitz owns 50% of Redbull man and hes the 50th richest man on the planet.
Yes because the Renault Group are one of the largest motor manufacturers in the world. If you consider Mercedes, Honda and Fiat owned Ferrari you will see that there's a pattern emerging here.

Renault produce 1 out of every nine cars manufactured world wide and thus have huge financial and technical resources to undertake the enormously complex task of designing and manufacturing a modern hybrid power train.

The parent company of the Red Bull F1 team sells lots of fizzy drinks.
 

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