Everton bid £18m for Sunderland defender Lamine Kone


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Step 1: hire a manager at least partly for his ability to judge good transfer deals for players who turn out to be better than anyone expected.

Step 2: moan at new manager for doing what we hired him for
Isn't that what all of our managers are hired in part to do? Moyes wouldn't be the first to sign a bag load of shite. I hope he pulls off some good deals, my frustration is 'cos of the state of our squad two days before kick off, when the supposed plan all along had been to get off to a decent start this year and not be playing catch up after 8- 10 games, again!

Exactly, you won't, but sometimes people are delusional fannies who think you can just have 5 established, peaking CBs on the books, all as good as each other - which is financially and rationally ridiculous. We are Sunderland, we are not going to have to a 25-man squad filled with players as good as those in the starting 11.

We've taken a punt on Djilobodji (no more than we did on Kone, btw) so hopefully he settles in. After that we have Kaboul and O'Shea, tried and tested and vastly experienced (although the latter is ageing, he is still useful cover). Then have McNair, who is a very decent prospect, played quite a few times for Man Utd at a young age and is versatile. After that, Kirchhoff spent most of his career at CB, Love can play there and at a push Rodwell. I think we have enough! You can't account for having 2 or 3 injuries in the every position, and still expect to be unhindered - that's fantasy land. Southampton have been selling their best players every season for years, yet somehow they haven't had a hissy-fit and declared 'there are no other players in the world, we must keep this one!'

We aren't going sign any more CBs, we have plenty. It is the one position in the squad where we do have adequate depth.
If we started a game in the premier league with Love, Rodwell and maybe even McNair starting there, we may as well forfeit the game.
 
Given the carry on when he first signed it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if he had requested something down the line based on is staying up or whatever. Either way the club are making the wrong decision on flogging him imo


The kone signing at £5m was a one in a hundred signing for Sunderland. You just know we will completely waste the money. A third of it is potentially being spent on two average youth players from man utd

If it remains 1 in 100 of a signing we will go down this season or next if we only buy the same dross that we have for 5 or 6 years now. It has to change to succeed and we have to take the chance in order to progress. If the last 6 years hadnt went so shite with recruitment i think most would be saying yeah flog him for that and buy someone else and reinvest the rest
 
Exactly, you won't, but sometimes people are delusional fannies who think you can just have 5 established, peaking CBs on the books, all as good as each other - which is financially and rationally ridiculous. We are Sunderland, we are not going to have to a 25-man squad filled with players as good as those in the starting 11.

We've taken a punt on Djilobodji (no more than we did on Kone, btw) so hopefully he settles in. After that we have Kaboul and O'Shea, tried and tested and vastly experienced (although the latter is ageing, he is still useful cover). Then have McNair, who is a very decent prospect, played quite a few times for Man Utd at a young age and is versatile. After that, Kirchhoff spent most of his career at CB, Love can play there and at a push Rodwell. I think we have enough! You can't account for having 2 or 3 injuries in the every position, and still expect to be unhindered - that's fantasy land. Southampton have been selling their best players every season for years, yet somehow they haven't had a hissy-fit and declared 'there are no other players in the world, we must keep this one!'

We aren't going sign any more CBs, we have plenty. It is the one position in the squad where we do have adequate depth.

Agree with the sentiment.
Certainly don't see Love playing at CH though. No way is he physically ready for that....and I'm one of the few who thinks he has something to become a PL right back as well.
 
Isn't that what all of our managers are hired in part to do? Moyes wouldn't be the first to sign a bag load of shite. I hope he pulls off some good deals, my frustration is 'cos of the state of our squad two days before kick off, when the supposed plan all along had been to get off to a decent start this year and not be playing catch up after 8- 10 games, again!


If we started a game in the premier league with Love, Rodwell and maybe even McNair starting there, we may as well forfeit the game.
No you're right, what we should have is a squad filled with 10m pound CBs just in case - 6 28-year old CBs on 50k a week, just in case. Fuck every other position, FFP and the transfer and wage budgets.

Agree with the sentiment.
Certainly don't see Love playing at CH though. No way is he physically ready for that....and I'm one of the few who thinks he has something to become a PL right back as well.
I'm talking about as an emergency, 5th or 6th in line.
 
What's your answer then? We keep Kone pay him what he wants and go out and sign another centre back because o'shea isn't up to it?
I can't see any way that we are going to spend £13m on two back up centre backs.
That's before we have even started on the rest of the team.

I'm saying that in our situation we keep our best players. I know that the squad we need can't be assembled overnight in one window or two or even maybe three. But,it has to start somewhere and although we've got rid of some dead wood,we've still got a long way to go. If we have Kone,Kaboul,Papy,JoS for one more season and McNair to replace him, for me,that's reasonable for this season for centre defence. We've shifted Brown,Roberge and Coates(for now) and their wages will cover.Then,as you say,we need to start on the other positions.
 
I couldn't disagree more. Kone may have only displayed good form in a 6 month period but during that 6 month period he looked like the best CB we had at the club since we came back up. Now considering our defence looked like four amateurs before his arrival, it is a ridiculous risk for the club to presume they can just go out and replace that player. We have suffered from some awful defending over the last couple of seasons and I cannot understand how any fan would want to possibly go back to watching that for £12 million pound profit.

Yes you can buy another decent player for that £12 million but it is not worth losing a defender who has really helped sort out the back four. Obviously Sam had a part to play in that too but Kone has been nothing short of excellent since he arrived and I think the club are very stupid to let him go.
He wasn't our best defender in the last 6 months, let alone years!
 
Exactly, you won't, but sometimes people are delusional fannies who think you can just have 5 established, peaking CBs on the books, all as good as each other - which is financially and rationally ridiculous. We are Sunderland, we are not going to have to a 25-man squad filled with players as good as those in the starting 11.

We've taken a punt on Djilobodji (no more than we did on Kone, btw) so hopefully he settles in. After that we have Kaboul and O'Shea, tried and tested and vastly experienced (although the latter is ageing, he is still useful cover). Then have McNair, who is a very decent prospect, played quite a few times for Man Utd at a young age and is versatile. After that, Kirchhoff spent most of his career at CB, Love can play there and at a push Rodwell. I think we have enough! You can't account for having 2 or 3 injuries in the every position, and still expect to be unhindered - that's fantasy land. Southampton have been selling their best players every season for years, yet somehow they haven't had a hissy-fit and declared 'there are no other players in the world, we must keep this one!'

We aren't going sign any more CBs, we have plenty. It is the one position in the squad where we do have adequate depth.

Nice to see a realistic common sense contribution. Something we are sadly lacking lately!
 
Based on the fact we've just spent £6m on two unproven kids from Man Utd, and £8m another player that Moyes apparently wasnt even considering, I am not massively confident about what's next. As per, I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised, but expecting not to be.

Well you might be pissed off for the next 4 years if Moyes stays the distance.

Thats who we are though. Theres the top 8 or so and everyone else. Its a 2 tier league.

I agree but would say it's 3 tier.
 
You can't sell your best players in our position. Positions we needed to strengthen this window RB, CF (min of 1 for 1st XI & 1 backup), Winger/AM, CB.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/strengthen
Definition of Strengthen = to make or become stronger (By selling our best CB)

You can keep denying Ellis is running club into ground(as you always do) but if Kone goes it's more proof of his excellent "not a relegation model" policy

PS can you change avatar I actually find myself hating Quinny because of it
Love it when people reference the bloody free dictionary. The dictionary that thinks "tret" (like treated) is a word!
 
I'm saying that in our situation we keep our best players. I know that the squad we need can't be assembled overnight in one window or two or even maybe three. But,it has to start somewhere and although we've got rid of some dead wood,we've still got a long way to go. If we have Kone,Kaboul,Papy,JoS for one more season and McNair to replace him, for me,that's reasonable for this season for centre defence. We've shifted Brown,Roberge and Coates(for now) and their wages will cover.Then,as you say,we need to start on the other positions.
With what are we filling the other positions if we have already spent £15m on the centre of defence? Therein lies the problem. Of course ideally everyone would like to keep hold of all the better players and continually add to it but that's also very difficult to do.
Having said that Kone still hasn't actually gone, papy and McNair can play in a couple of positions so maybe they are here as backups but that probably means one midfielder if that coming in. We have to compromise somewhere.
 
McKay offered Kone to the mags, after our deals broke down. Tufty just confirmed on SSN, he really does seem an utter twat. The mags couldn't do the deal though.
 
With what are we filling the other positions if we have already spent £15m on the centre of defence? Therein lies the problem. Of course ideally everyone would like to keep hold of all the better players and continually add to it but that's also very difficult to do.
Having said that Kone still hasn't actually gone, papy and McNair can play in a couple of positions so maybe they are here as backups but that probably means one midfielder if that coming in. We have to compromise somewhere.

It is difficult and it can't be done overnight so compromise is necessary. As you say,Kone hasn't gone that we know of and he may not. I felt that at the end of last season we had a very decent starting eleven,but very little else as cover,borne out I think by pre-season, when the bench was mostly young lads. I'm hoping we can add to that starting eleven,not selling some of it.
 
Not at this minute in time. How long has it taken for us to get a cb in who can stay fit, has 6+ years left at his peak.

Let's look at some names Kilgallon, Brown(Absolutely best CB that was on our books but missed 2.5 seasons out of 4) Carlos Cuellar, Da Silva, Vergini, Oshea(good in spells but always poor when playing alongside someone he has to talk through the game), Bramble, Ferdinand, Mensah(class but wasnt ours also see Brown) Turner (quality until he did his knee in, never the same after that). Kaboul (best CB when fit potentially see Browm). So I wonder why people are kicking off that probably the best centre back we've signed for a decade when you consider the full picture is probably getting sold for a quick 8-10m profit at a time we're after stability and building a team for a minimum of mid table finishes and we basically weaken a team that finished 17th!!
1. No sign in anything decent ( quality press ) of even an official approach for him, never mind being sold.
2. If we sell for 18m after paying 5m, I make that a 'quick 13m profit'
3. Your ramble through our Cb's doesn't make any sense whatsoever, but tbf every team in the bottom half of the premier could qualify as having at least 8 players per team who've played CB in the past 8 years.

McKay offered Kone to the mags, after our deals broke down. Tufty just confirmed on SSN, he really does seem an utter twat. The mags couldn't do the deal though.
So we could do the deal but the mags couldn't yet many say we stuff around etcetc.
Turn up for the books
 
It is difficult and it can't be done overnight so compromise is necessary. As you say,Kone hasn't gone that we know of and he may not. I felt that at the end of last season we had a very decent starting eleven,but very little else as cover,borne out I think by pre-season, when the bench was mostly young lads. I'm hoping we can add to that starting eleven,not selling some of it.
That's where the compromise is, sell one maybe get 2/3 if you spend it wisely. Of course if they get it wrong we are in trouble.
It's the type of decision they need to make hopefully they get it right one way or the other.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2010/jan/11/kenwyne-jones-steve-bruce-sunderland

This is an example of when we did the right thing. When Sbragia was in charge and Spurs offer £25m? (or somewhere in that regiom when £25m was a lot of money) we turned it down as we would've been relegated if we'd sold him that january.
Embarrasing for Bruce saying mega money and selling for £8m but that was the start of the sell to buy we sold Waghorn(no great miss) and Jones(In Bents word the best partner he'd played with) to buy Gyan.

I know Kenwynne went on to do pretty much nothing, but my point is we needed him so we kept him.
 
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