England v SA 2nd test thread

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Has Buttler played any red ball stuff this year?

Just checked an Buttler has played one first class game this season

He averages 1.5 with a top score of 2

He doesn't deserve a test call up

I dont think it matters. Hes the type of player who can come in down the order and perform. Hes averaging 31 in tests.

Also, I dont read too much in to county form. Ballance is very good at CC level but will never be a test player.
 


I dont think it matters. Hes the type of player who can come in down the order and perform. Hes averaging 31 in tests.

Also, I dont read too much in to county form. Ballance is very good at CC level but will never be a test player.
So you're selecting a specialist batsmen who averages 31?

And a hitter given we have batted less than 100 overs in a test?
 
So you're selecting a specialist batsmen who averages 31?

And a hitter given we have batted less than 100 overs in a test?

As opposed to who though?

We've tried Dawson who looks out of sorts with bat and ball. Bring in a specialist spinner who can also bat. Hes an exciting player, the sort who can take games away from people. The other changes would see us being at the crease longer.

Not being arsey, but whats your suggestion as an alternative?
 
As opposed to who though?

We've tried Dawson who looks out of sorts with bat and ball. Bring in a specialist spinner who can also bat. Hes an exciting player, the sort who can take games away from people. The other changes would see us being at the crease longer.

Not being arsey, but whats your suggestion as an alternative?
A batsman. Not someone who swings the bat a bit at 7

Dawson was an absurd selection. Rashid should have played if they wanted a second spinner

Cook
Opener - Stoneman/Jennings/Hameed
A number 3. Probably one of the above
Root
Batsman - Livingstone, Lawrence, Westley, Malan. Someone getting runs
Bairstow
Stokes
Ali
Wood/Woakes
Broad
Anderson

That's got to be the structure of your side now.

Then if you want a second spinner (Rashid) for a game you remove a batsman and shift everyone up one

You can't justify a specialist batsmen at 7. Especially one who plays no red ball cricket
 
Buttler got some runs in India (70 & 40) so using his red ball record as reason not to select him is not valid, he should be in the side on merit. He's too good a batsman when it comes off not to be, but I accept we have enough strokeplayers and he's not necessarily the bat-time type we are looking for and he's not getting in as a keeper while Bairstow's in form.

I do not get the argument for Ballance at 5 either, he's failed three times and shown conclusively he's not up to it and the problems he has at 3 will be there at 5. It was a joke bringing him back this time if we're totally honest about it.
 
Need to look at someone like Tom Westley, Sam Northeast or Joe Clarke if we are picking a specialist batsman in my opinion.
 
Buttler got some runs in India (70 & 40) so using his red ball record as reason not to select him is not valid, he should be in the side on merit. He's too good a batsman when it comes off not to be, but I accept we have enough strokeplayers and he's not necessarily the bat-time type we are looking for and he's not getting in as a keeper while Bairstow's in form.

I do not get the argument for Ballance at 5 either, he's failed three times and shown conclusively he's not up to it and the problems he has at 3 will be there at 5. It was a joke bringing him back this time if we're totally honest about it.
Eh? You can't use his red ball record to judge him?!
 
Cook
2
3
Root
5
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
9
Broad
Anderson

That's the basis of the side, with all the quality players in the places they are most comfortable or have performed in the past (why you would even consider messing about with this baffles me).

So three bats and a bowler. For me: Jennings, Stoneman, Ballance and the most suitable bowler for the surface.
 
Of course you can. I'm saying it's not as bad as is being made out.

He got runs in India.
He did yes. But he averages 31 in test cricket and is a blaster. We need test cricketers

Cook
2
3
Root
5
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
9
Broad
Anderson

That's the basis of the side, with all the quality players in the places they are most comfortable or have performed in the past (why you would even consider messing about with this baffles me).

So three bats and a bowler. For me: Jennings, Stoneman, Ballance and the most suitable bowler for the surface.
I'd switch Bairstow and Stokes and I think that Ballance has a real technical problem, but agree with you in the main
 
Buttler got some runs in India (70 & 40) so using his red ball record as reason not to select him is not valid, he should be in the side on merit. He's too good a batsman when it comes off not to be, but I accept we have enough strokeplayers and he's not necessarily the bat-time type we are looking for and he's not getting in as a keeper while Bairstow's in form.

I do not get the argument for Ballance at 5 either, he's failed three times and shown conclusively he's not up to it and the problems he has at 3 will be there at 5. It was a joke bringing him back this time if we're totally honest about it.

Even his average on the India tour was sub-40, there is nothing in his entire red ball career to suggest he will make a Test batsman. Nothing.

Ballance has scored all his County runs at 5. The argument is that if you're going to pick someone, you pick them in the position they are most comfortable and therefore give them the best chance to succeed (in the immediacy at least). He deserves a shot because he's been the stand out batsman in the County Championship. And let's not forget that his record at County and Test level is absolute miles ahead of Buttler, it's not even a contest.

I'd switch Bairstow and Stokes and I think that Ballance has a real technical problem, but agree with you in the main

Bairstow wants the gloves so I put him in the traditional 'keeper batting spot, but it's not a big deal.

I don't think Ballance will make it either but the options are limited, and you can't really throw three new caps into the top order at the same time. Maybe a back foot player with issue might be the best of a bad bunch in Australia this winter.
 
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Even his average on the India tour was sub-40, there is nothing in his entire red ball career to suggest he will make a Test batsman. Nothing.

Ballance has scored all his County runs at 5. The argument is that if you're going to pick someone, you pick them in the position they are most comfortable and therefore give them the best chance to succeed (in the immediacy at least). He deserves a shot because he's been the stand out batsman in the County Championship. And let's not forget that his record at County and Test level is absolute miles ahead of Buttler, it's not even a contest.



Bairstow wants the gloves so I put him in the traditional 'keeper batting spot, but it's not a big deal.

I don't think Ballance will make it either but the options are limited, and you can't really throw three new caps into the top order at the same time. Maybe a back foot player with issue might be the best of a bad bunch in Australia this winter.
Fully agreed. If Ballance play it has to be at 5.

I wonder if they are considering going back to one of Robson, Bell or Morgan (despite his lack of red ball cricket also)
 
He did yes. But he averages 31 in test cricket and is a blaster. We need test cricketers


I'd switch Bairstow and Stokes and I think that Ballance has a real technical problem, but agree with you in the main
Yes I agree with you, that's why I said he's not necessarily the type we're looking for, but my point is he's the best talent that I can see that's not in the side and I'd sooner have him back in than the likes of Robson, Bell, Vince or Ballance.

In my opinion there's a fairly strong argument that he should be in on merit anyway, regardless of the type of batsman he is and the type we're looking for. Clearly you and steak pie don't agree, but for me there is.

I agree with you both on the make up of the side otherwise, we basically need an opener, 3 & 5, Bairstow, Stokes and Ali back to 6,7 & 8 and a choice between Wood and Woakes.

It's a shame Woakes is injured as he'd be in ahead of Wood on current form, which is a concern.
 
Yes I agree with you, that's why I said he's not necessarily the type we're looking for, but my point is he's the best talent that I can see that's not in the side and I'd sooner have him back in than the likes of Robson, Bell, Vince or Ballance.

In my opinion there's a fairly strong argument that he should be in on merit anyway, regardless of the type of batsman he is and the type we're looking for. Clearly you and steak pie don't agree, but for me there is.

I agree with you both on the make up of the side otherwise, we basically need an opener, 3 & 5, Bairstow, Stokes and Ali back to 6,7 & 8 and a choice between Wood and Woakes.

It's a shame Woakes is injured as he'd be in ahead of Wood on current form, which is a concern.
He's a very talented cricketer and I'd be happy with him as a keeper

But he averages 31 in first class cricket. That's not enough
 
Even his average on the India tour was sub-40, there is nothing in his entire red ball career to suggest he will make a Test batsman. Nothing.

Ballance has scored all his County runs at 5. The argument is that if you're going to pick someone, you pick them in the position they are most comfortable and therefore give them the best chance to succeed (in the immediacy at least). He deserves a shot because he's been the stand out batsman in the County Championship. And let's not forget that his record at County and Test level is absolute miles ahead of Buttler, it's not even a contest.
Totally disagree with you on both subjects. To say there is literally nothing about Buttler to suggest he is a Test batsman is cackbabble of the highest order and Ballance is a complete busted flush at Test level, who has had at least one more chance than he deserves, it's as simple as that
 
Totally disagree with you on both subjects. To say there is literally nothing about Buttler to suggest he is a Test batsman is cackbabble of the highest order and Ballance is a complete busted flush at Test level, who has had at least one more chance than he deserves, it's as simple as that
Buttler averages 31 in 18 tests with no centuries
Buttler averages 31 in FCC full stop

How on earth is that cacbabble?
 
Fully agreed. If Ballance play it has to be at 5.

I wonder if they are considering going back to one of Robson, Bell or Morgan (despite his lack of red ball cricket also)

I think if they were going to go back to Bell they would have done it by now, and I don't think Morgan is interested in a red ball career. After that, who knows? If Dawson can get picked as a frontline spinner then anything could happen.

Totally disagree with you on both subjects. To say there is literally nothing about Buttler to suggest he is a Test batsman is cackbabble of the highest order and Ballance is a complete busted flush at Test level, who has had at least one more chance than he deserves, it's as simple as that

It's really not. Buttler's red ball record is poor at every level he's ever played, it's not in the same discussion as Ballance's

Buttler is going to carve out a multi million pound career in the white ball game and that's it. And good luck to him.
 
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Buttler averages 31 in 18 tests with no centuries
Buttler averages 31 in FCC full stop

How on earth is that cacbabble?
Saying there is nothing in his entire red ball career to suggest he will make a Test batsman. ?? Come on, that's just not true. He's only played 18 tests and before being dropped for Bairstow was doing ok.
Yes, his average could be higher but stats aren't everything. It's not like it's a terrible average. Stokes averages 32. Modern's is 35.
Ballance is only 37 as a specialist batsman with 4 tons and more games.

Also, Buttler was in the side as keeper-batsman, it's only the last three Tests he was selected as a batsman, bearing that in mind averaging 31 is not unreasonable.
 
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