England & Henderson


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I wasnt going to post my own thread on tonight but as the rest are full of bollocks I think its apt to do so.

First of all well done England, it takes some balls to basically start again. For all those bemoaning an England defeat lets consider whether we would have won anyway with the Big Time Charlie Bottlers we have had for the last few years. Whilst the answer to that question is that we wouldnt have won what we obviously dont want to do is throw out the baby with the bath water, hence Gerrard, Crouch etc. playing. Garrard obviously looked like our best oplayer because he has played at this standard for years - and achieved nothing.

England are doing what they probably should have done after 1970 and that is - start again - we arent very good and need to recognise that fact and move on from it. Personally I thought it was great that playes like Henderson, Carroll, Johnson and Young formed the backbone of the team.

Carroll is a f***ing handful and once he gets too speed with the international game he will frighten the life out of defenders. He is a typical English centre forward and is almost "Quinnesque" in his play - awkward and physical. Forget his off the field antics for the present.

Henderson did exactly what was asked of him - he stuck to his position. The easiest thing in the world would have been for him to chase the French midfield and allow himself to be ripped a new arsehole - that didnt happen.

All in all I'm pleased that Capello has had the guts to do what he did tonight and applaud him for leaving Jordan on for the whole game.

England have been shit for years and its a long way back for us. Hopefully a new era has begun - about time.

I'm pleased, not disappointed about tonight.
I am not bothered at all about England but it was interesting to see Henderson and Carroll play for fans of North East football.

Carroll was very aggressive, but you can't play international football playing the long ball. Crouch isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he has a much better touch than Carroll.

Henderson was totally out of his depth.

It was a largely reserve England team. Only Gerrard, Milner and Lescott came out with any credit. The 2nd half subs did OK
 
I am not bothered at all about England but it was interesting to see Henderson and Carroll play for fans of North East football.

Carroll was very aggressive, but you can't play international football playing the long ball. Crouch isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he has a much better touch than Carroll.

Henderson was totally out of his depth.

It was a largely reserve England team. Only Gerrard, Milner and Lescott came out with any credit. The 2nd half subs did OK

you av to be fuckin jokin mate
that fucker was abysmal
 
I'd agree with that, except I've no doubt he'll be back to the 'big time charlies' the next qualifier. And the biggest f***ing problem is that everything has to go through Gerrard, or the whole country has a great big f***ing period.

Gerrard is a massive indictment of everything that is wrong in the philosophy and thinking in English football, but he runs around a lot and scores an occasional 30 yarder against Hungary, so he's f***ing unbelievable like.

You dont get a reputation like Gerrard has by just been able to do that, I am sure when Fergie said he would love him at Man Utd or when Jose tried to sign him it wasnt because he just ran around a lot
 
I am not bothered at all about England but it was interesting to see Henderson and Carroll play for fans of North East football.

Carroll was very aggressive, but you can't play international football playing the long ball. Crouch isn't everyone's cup of tea, but he has a much better touch than Carroll.

Henderson was totally out of his depth.

It was a largely reserve England team. Only Gerrard, Milner and Lescott came out with any credit. The 2nd half subs did OK

A lesson in how to discredit yourself in one simple word. :lol:
 
Capello has been saying he kept Gerrard on because he needed some experience out there. He didn't show any sign of experience or leadership. I watched the entire game and couldn't work out what Gerrard was supposed to be doing, he was absolutely garbage.

Henderson and Carroll were exposed by the incompetence of those so called experienced players around them. Carroll was having to come deep to get it. If you have 5 in the middle and a big lad like him up front, why was he so deep?

Surely you get the ball forward quickly and push your two forward thinking central players on to pick up the pieces then build the attack in their half, bringing in width and playing in front of their penalty area.

People are saying it was great we brought these young lads in, and it is, but the purpose is still the same. We play to accommodate those 'experienced' players who have underperformed for England for the last 6-8 years. Until we play to the strengths of the new players coming in, then theres no point.
 
I wasnt going to post my own thread on tonight but as the rest are full of bollocks I think its apt to do so.

First of all well done England, it takes some balls to basically start again. For all those bemoaning an England defeat lets consider whether we would have won anyway with the Big Time Charlie Bottlers we have had for the last few years. Whilst the answer to that question is that we wouldnt have won what we obviously dont want to do is throw out the baby with the bath water, hence Gerrard, Crouch etc. playing. Garrard obviously looked like our best oplayer because he has played at this standard for years - and achieved nothing.

England are doing what they probably should have done after 1970 and that is - start again - we arent very good and need to recognise that fact and move on from it. Personally I thought it was great that playes like Henderson, Carroll, Johnson and Young formed the backbone of the team.

Carroll is a f***ing handful and once he gets too speed with the international game he will frighten the life out of defenders. He is a typical English centre forward and is almost "Quinnesque" in his play - awkward and physical. Forget his off the field antics for the present.

Henderson did exactly what was asked of him - he stuck to his position. The easiest thing in the world would have been for him to chase the French midfield and allow himself to be ripped a new arsehole - that didnt happen.

All in all I'm pleased that Capello has had the guts to do what he did tonight and applaud him for leaving Jordan on for the whole game.

England have been shit for years and its a long way back for us. Hopefully a new era has begun - about time.

I'm pleased, not disappointed about tonight.

Couldnt have put it better myself, anyone dissapointed with the result need to look at the bigger picture. This game was about blooding a few youngsters that are going to be the england team in a year or two. Its a smart move by cappello one i wish he took right away. I cant believe anyone couldnt see that hendo was asked to do that job last neet, and i cant believe anyone is having ago at his performance. It was his first f***ing england game some people really are thick as f***ing shit like.:lol:

You dont get a reputation like Gerrard has by just been able to do that, I am sure when Fergie said he would love him at Man Utd or when Jose tried to sign him it wasnt because he just ran around a lot

Hes barely done much more in his england caps mind.:lol:

Just reading the media reports and the boos etc the fans and media are never going to let the management do a germany and blood youngsters. Fans are thick media are thick it will continue they will demand the all stars are rolled out time after time then moan we get dumped out of the euros then the world cup. I pitty any england manager, thick fans thick media thinking we are still some sort of super power. Wake up lads and lasses we have been shite for 20 years or more and havent won owt since 1966.
 
the first thing I saw was dispensing with the old guard who have got us nowhere. when was the last time that England were brave enough to literally start again with the lads we saw?

Unfortunately we're still left with Gerrard, and no doubt Lampard when he returns from injury. The two players most to blame for England's woes over the last decade. Made to look like world beaters by their foreign teammates but clueless at international level.

We need to teach the kids how the game works and how to control a ball. For years we've relied on players who've succeeded despite all the limitations of the English game from age 5 upwards rather than because of it, and they always get found out at international level. They burst onto the international secene with no fear and we think 'we've finally cracked it' and then they're not clever enough to continue to improve so go safety first and we're back to square one.

Just reading the media reports and the boos etc the fans and media are never going to let the management do a germany and blood youngsters. Fans are thick media are thick it will continue they will demand the all stars are rolled out time after time then moan we get dumped out of the euros then the world cup. I pitty any england manager, thick fans thick media thinking we are still some sort of super power. Wake up lads and lasses we have been shite for 20 years or more and havent won owt since 1966.

Absolutely true. The sooner the majority of England fans accept we're now a third world footballing nation and need to start again the better.

the papers will be full of 'we need Lampard back' today. Six months ago they were screaming for a total cull, which Capello was stupid in not taking advantage of.
 
Henderson produced a very mature performance. As a 20 year old making an England debut all anyone could really ask was he competed, had a solid game, and allowed the senior players to take responsibility for the rest. That is precisely what he did. He barely gave the ball away all night. Cracking young footballer.

In the first half Henderson was inhibited by Gareth Barry's total inability to use his right foot. It meant we got locked into a vicious cycle of only using the left hand side of the pitch because once the ball was out there, Barry was the man showing for it and because he was facing left, and only capable of using his left foot, he always had his back to Henderson and the ball ended up back on the touchline. The upshot of it all was that Henderson, and following on from that, Walcott, saw nothing of the ball. What Gareth Barry has done to earn this reputation he seems to have as an untouchable part of the England side is completely beyond me.

Totally agree - you might add to that that Milner was shite as well.

Couldnt have put it better myself, anyone dissapointed with the result need to look at the bigger picture. This game was about blooding a few youngsters that are going to be the england team in a year or two. Its a smart move by cappello one i wish he took right away. I cant believe anyone couldnt see that hendo was asked to do that job last neet, and i cant believe anyone is having ago at his performance. It was his first f***ing england game some people really are thick as f***ing shit like.:lol:



Hes barely done much more in his england caps mind.:lol:

Just reading the media reports and the boos etc the fans and media are never going to let the management do a germany and blood youngsters. Fans are thick media are thick it will continue they will demand the all stars are rolled out time after time then moan we get dumped out of the euros then the world cup. I pitty any england manager, thick fans thick media thinking we are still some sort of super power. Wake up lads and lasses we have been shite for 20 years or more and havent won owt since 1966.

Spot on - especially the bit about people being thick.
 
Not really the point I was attempting to make but we don't have to sacrifice the pace and excitement of our game to succeed, Allied to good technique it can work. The great AC Milan side used an amalgam of British and Italian style to great effect.

Our problem lies with the attitude of the players, they simply wont spend the time working on their games.

Spot on, but do you think adults can significantly improve their technique? I read somewhere that you have to do that before you're 10yo, when the neurons in your brain that control balance, movement, etc are still developing. Mind some of them do still have the brains of a 10 yo.

I don't think we'll ever have a technically excellent midfield (the most important area) - too many kids are raised on kick, rush and thump. I'm struggling to think of even a handful of England midfielders from my era who'd fit the bill - only Gazza, Robson and maybe Scholes, Platt and Hoddle spring immediately to mind.
 
Spot on, but do you think adults can significantly improve their technique? I read somewhere that you have to do that before you're 10yo, when the neurons in your brain that control balance, movement, etc are still developing. Mind some of them do still have the brains of a 10 yo.

I don't think we'll ever have a technically excellent midfield (the most important area) - too many kids are raised on kick, rush and thump. I'm struggling to think of even a handful of England midfielders from my era who'd fit the bill - only Gazza, Robson and maybe Scholes, Platt and Hoddle spring immediately to mind.


I think anyone any age can get better at something they are working at daily. There was a period i was playing football nearly every day and i could feel myself improving. I havent played now for ages and when i even kick a ball i feel like i have lost it all. Technique can be worked on at any age imho.
 
Henderson produced a very mature performance. As a 20 year old making an England debut all anyone could really ask was he competed, had a solid game, and allowed the senior players to take responsibility for the rest. That is precisely what he did. He barely gave the ball away all night. Cracking young footballer.

In the first half Henderson was inhibited by Gareth Barry's total inability to use his right foot. It meant we got locked into a vicious cycle of only using the left hand side of the pitch because once the ball was out there, Barry was the man showing for it and because he was facing left, and only capable of using his left foot, he always had his back to Henderson and the ball ended up back on the touchline. The upshot of it all was that Henderson, and following on from that, Walcott, saw nothing of the ball. What Gareth Barry has done to earn this reputation he seems to have as an untouchable part of the England side is completely beyond me.
A very good analysis of the first half. Walcott saw little of the ball, which was a shame has he looked relatively dangerous when he got it,
 
Spot on, but do you think adults can significantly improve their technique? I read somewhere that you have to do that before you're 10yo, when the neurons in your brain that control balance, movement, etc are still developing. Mind some of them do still have the brains of a 10 yo.

I don't think we'll ever have a technically excellent midfield (the most important area) - too many kids are raised on kick, rush and thump. I'm struggling to think of even a handful of England midfielders from my era who'd fit the bill - only Gazza, Robson and maybe Scholes, Platt and Hoddle spring immediately to mind.

Good point. Obviously that's the optimal time to put a lot of work in. Mind, I still maintain we'd see massive improvement from our players if they worked harder and longer on technique and movement.
 
I agree with the opening post, I haven't read the rest of the thread so apologies if I'm repeating what's been said but looking at the press reaction and the crowds reaction to the defeat yesterday is why I think England will struggle to ever blood a new team/generation.

There's no patience in football anymore as is evident everywhere particularly in the gutter press, which now holds so much influence in this country.
 
I think anyone any age can get better at something they are working at daily. There was a period i was playing football nearly every day and i could feel myself improving. I havent played now for ages and when i even kick a ball i feel like i have lost it all. Technique can be worked on at any age imho.

These are professionals though. They've been eating, breathing and sleeping football most of their lives.
 
The problem Henderson had was that England played nothing like Sunderland. Instead of playing numerous little passes to each other and therefore making the opposition run about the game plan seemed to be smash it to Carroll and hope someone can run half the pitch to support him.

England don't seem to like having possession for any amount of time before an alert sounds in their heads to get it forward fast and most of the time its a big hoof 20 yards in front of the winger.

It could be argued that Henderson should have imposed himself on the game but it seemed every time he got a pass there was either no midfielder to give it to or he had a French player right behind him. The one time I remember him getting near the opposition box he played a decent ball into Milner (I think) who couldn't quite get it out of his feet.

Maybe he should have tried to find more space more often but I have my doubts as to whether he would have got the pass when the defence bypassed the midfield on many occasions.

The yellow card was probably born out of frustration from not seeing much of the ball, put it this way, he played just as good/bad as the rest of the time.

The only player on the pitch who looked like he might do something or at least tried to give it a go was Young.
 
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The whole England thing is becoming so tedious for me.

I just have so little interest these days which is a shame.
I was in France and Germany, which was a laugh despite the shit performances, but wouldn't have watched last night but for Jordan.

Capello is just taking the piss now giving out caps to people like Bothroyd and playing people out of position to show how deep thinking he is ......... I'm at the point where my only concern during matches is that Sunderland players aren't injured.
 
Gerrard 8/10
Rio 6.5/10 (wouldn't pass to the young'uns though)
Henderson would get 6/10
Carroll 5.5/10
Young 5.5/10
Johnson 5/10
The rest 4/10 bar Milner & Lescott both 3/10.
 
OP is right.
It's all too overhyped when mentioning the England set-up and the media just go way over the top when analysing players.

Carroll is a decent player but tonight he didn't do too well, forwards are judged on their goals and he didn't score tonight.

For Henderson it was 1 v 3 against a well drilled French trio - this was purely because of our inept tactical grasps in the first half and in the second we pressed higher and got more into the game. I think Henderson should of got the ball more, and played further up the pitch - he almost pulled off what could of been a great assist in the second half.
 
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Agree with some of the points made above that most English fans are thick as mince, you go to most if not all English football grounds and the full back wiping out a winger would get a massive cheer where as a nice passage of play knocking it out from the back to the midfield only to find there is nothing on so the midfield would go back to the defence and try again would be met with howls of 'Get it up field man' or 'You cant score from back there':roll:
 
Agree with some of the points made above that most English fans are thick as mince, you go to most if not all English football grounds and the full back wiping out a winger would get a massive cheer where as a nice passage of play knocking it out from the back to the midfield only to find there is nothing on so the midfield would go back to the defence and try again would be met with howls of 'Get it up field man' or 'You cant score from back there':roll:

I think its the whole, 'we want everything now', mentality that makes people have these types of opinions.
 
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