England & Henderson


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If, at a time when the good players are developing their technique and modern coaches are refining their tactics, we believe we can succeed by smashing balls into 'the big lad' I think we should accept that we'll never win anything.

Not really the point I was attempting to make but we don't have to sacrifice the pace and excitement of our game to succeed, Allied to good technique it can work. The great AC Milan side used an amalgam of British and Italian style to great effect.

Our problem lies with the attitude of the players, they simply wont spend the time working on their games.
 
Put it another way, England has tried for decades to play like the continentals and we have failed miserably.

Maybe going back to basics would be worth trying.

TBH I never thought I'd ever hear myself saying this but we really havent been very good at copying off the continentals.

you do what you do best and that is a "hybrid" type of football between us ie hoof ball and the rest.

Capello and 20 years later.

I thought all the recent cricicism of Capello was that he stuck to 4 4 2?
Tonight he plays 4-2-2-1+gerrard who can do what he likes and he still gets shit
He can't win! (literally)

I don't think Capello gives a toss mind myself.
 
Not really the point I was attempting to make but we don't have to sacrifice the pace and excitement of our game to succeed, Allied to good technique it can work. The great AC Milan side used an amalgam of British and Italian style to great effect.

Our problem lies with the attitude of the players, they simply wont spend the time working on their games.
Nemo, youre banging at a door that wont open. they arent interested in spending time on their technique and it needs to be given up. what we are good at it up and at em football. That doesnt particularly mean a long ball game but it certainly means a different game to the rest.

We cant play like Spain or Germany do and shouldnt try.
 
Put it another way, England has tried for decades to play like the continentals and we have failed miserably.

Maybe going back to basics would be worth trying.

TBH I never thought I'd ever hear myself saying this but we really havent been very good at copying off the continentals.

you do what you do best and that is a "hybrid" type of football between us ie hoof ball and the rest.

Capello and 20 years later.

That's the bit I don't understand, we've never actually tried to play that way ........... we've spent a decade with a guaranteed non-scoring big man with Heskey and another striker who can score regularly against lower sides or in friendlies but not when it matters.

The fact is that we're scared to rely on skill and flair which is why Heskey went to the World Cup and Johnson, Bent and Walcott stayed at home.
 
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Nemo, youre banging at a door that wont open. they arent interested in spending time on their technique and it needs to be given up. what we are good at it up and at em football. That doesnt particularly mean a long ball game but it certainly means a different game to the rest.

We cant play like Spain or Germany do and shouldnt try.

I know you're right mate but it is the answer. The lazy bastards will do their utmost to ensure that anyone asking for more than four hours a week graft from them will be sacked.
 
Capello and 20 years later.

????

20 years ago English teams played this sort of football a lot more,
pitches were heavier and you could get away with more robust tackles. It still didn't work.

I am all in favour of having a big lad to mix things up late in the game, but as a sole tactic it's madness.

If you think we can win the World Cup playing like Jack Charlton's Ireland you are on glue mate.
 
Whilst I applaud your post and Capello's efforts to inject life into a failing side ,I can't agree about Carroll .
Yes he is an excellent prospect , big and strong with good technical ability but and it's a big but , he is a moral coward , who beats up women .
He is not alone in this as far as England is concerned , Gerrard is a spiteful little shite who let's his mates take the rap for him . Other's in the side , phillander around, in Terry's case , with a team mates missus.
If Carroll and Gerrard played for us I would feel the same way about them .
When the chips are down you need bottle , these moral cowards lack any sort of bottle and it shows at WC level .
Selecting Carroll rewarded an out of control thug .
Only my opinion and I expect to get slated for it but there you go ,feel free;)
 
That's the bit I don't understand, we;ve never tried to play that way ........... we've spent a decade with a guaranteed non-scoring big man with heskey and another striker who can score regularly against lower sides or in friendlies but not when it matters.

The fact is that we're scared to rely on skill and flair which is why Heskey went to the World Cup and Johnson, Bent and Walcott stayed at home.
We've tried to play that way for 20 years but we cant play it.

In the WC we played a type of football that Milan and co played decades ago. We play it across the back and generally fuck on when we really would like to hump it forward ot at least be more direct.

The best teams rely on young nimble footballers who have movement and are comfortable on the ball. We either drop Crouch and co or go for a different type of game.

We have totally failed in the last 20 years to play like other teams. Back to the drawing board and that almost certainly means a hybrid type of football that players to our strengths but also incorporates the best that the world has to offer.

We arent going anywhere much at international level ATM and need a new way of thinking.
 
I wasnt going to post my own thread on tonight but as the rest are full of bollocks I think its apt to do so.

First of all well done England, it takes some balls to basically start again. For all those bemoaning an England defeat lets consider whether we would have won anyway with the Big Time Charlie Bottlers we have had for the last few years. Whilst the answer to that question is that we wouldnt have won what we obviously dont want to do is throw out the baby with the bath water, hence Gerrard, Crouch etc. playing. Garrard obviously looked like our best oplayer because he has played at this standard for years - and achieved nothing.

England are doing what they probably should have done after 1970 and that is - start again - we arent very good and need to recognise that fact and move on from it. Personally I thought it was great that playes like Henderson, Carroll, Johnson and Young formed the backbone of the team.

Carroll is a f***ing handful and once he gets too speed with the international game he will frighten the life out of defenders. He is a typical English centre forward and is almost "Quinnesque" in his play - awkward and physical. Forget his off the field antics for the present.

Henderson did exactly what was asked of him - he stuck to his position. The easiest thing in the world would have been for him to chase the French midfield and allow himself to be ripped a new arsehole - that didnt happen.

All in all I'm pleased that Capello has had the guts to do what he did tonight and applaud him for leaving Jordan on for the whole game.

England have been shit for years and its a long way back for us. Hopefully a new era has begun - about time.

I'm pleased, not disappointed about tonight.

I don't really understand your argument.

You say England are finally moving on from the 1970's - but then go on to say Andy Carroll is - an awkward, physical "typical English centre forward."

Simply replacing players with their younger counterparts is not progress, it's necessity brought about by the passage of time.

Other than blooding fresh players, please explain exactly what happened today that was especially brave or represented progress. To me it looked like the same brand of football we've been peddling for over twenty or thirty years.
 
????

20 years ago English teams played this sort of football a lot more,
pitches were heavier and you could get away with more robust tackles. It still didn't work.

I am all in favour of having a big lad to mix things up late in the game, but as a sole tactic it's madness.

If you think we can win the World Cup playing like Jack Charlton's Ireland you are on glue mate.
No we havent. We like to think we have but the way we play ATM is at least 20 years behind everyone else.

We're still playing it along the back when the modern day team is full of young nimble footballers comfortable on the ball.

We dont have those type of players - our clubs dont breed them.

We need to play in our own way. That way should incorporate the best of the rest and our own style.

Its just a fallacy that say England can play like Spain - we cant. the clubs have let us down on that score.
 
MBH

" England has tried for decades to play like the continentals and we have failed miserably."

I just can't see any evidence of this.

Spain won the last World Cup and wouldn't have had Heskey there to carry Ledley King's crutches ........ if you can tell me which games we've played football anywhere near to the way France played tonight I'll hold my hands up.

I can't remember us ever playing that way.
 
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I don't really understand your argument.

You say England are finally moving on from the 1970's - but then go on to say Andy Carroll is - an awkward, physical "typical English centre forward."

Simply replacing players with their younger counterparts is not progress, it's necessity brought about by the passage of time.

Other than blooding fresh players, please explain exactly what happened today that was especially brave or represented progress. To me it looked like the same brand of football we've been peddling for over twenty or thirty years.
The brand of football we have played for 20 or 30 years is playing like the continentals ie playing it along the back etc.

the continentals gave up that style of play 20 years ago.

Look at spain, they dont fuck on along the back line taking 5 minutes to get into the opposition box - they go for it big style with quick pacy footballers.

Thje modern way is quick and efficient play into the box - we can do it but not playing like teams did 20 years ago. By the time we get within 30 yards of the goal the opponents have everyone back.
 
MBH

" England has tried for decades to play like the continentals and we have failed miserably."

I just can't see any evidence of this.

Spain won the last World Cup and wouldn't have had Heskey there to carry Ledley King's crutches ........ if you can tell me which games we've played football anywhere near to the way France played tonight I'll hold my hands up.

I can't remember is ever playing that way.

Nor me. We've only ever played "football" under Robson (Once he knew he was going and had nothing to lose) and Ramsey. I really don't understand the "playing across the back" comment either. Unless of course he means our defenders playing a few aimless passes and then giving it leather.
 
The brand of football we have played for 20 or 30 years is playing like the continentals ie playing it along the back etc.

the continentals gave up that style of play 20 years ago.

Look at spain, they dont fuck on along the back line taking 5 minutes to get into the opposition box - they go for it big style with quick pacy footballers.

Thje modern way is quick and efficient play into the box - we can do it but not playing like teams did 20 years ago. By the time we get within 30 yards of the goal the opponents have everyone back.

I've no idea what that means.
 
Nor me. We've only ever played "football" under Robson (Once he knew he was going and had nothing to lose) and Ramsey. I really don't understand the "playing across the back" comment either. Unless of course he means our defenders playing a few aimless passes and then giving it leather.
Nemo our defenders have played this "tappy lappy passy the parcel game" along the back for years and got us nowhere. someone mentioned AC Milan and they played like this 20 years ago. The football world has moved on but we havent.

We shouldnt try and play football this way as it has become boring, sterile and totally predictable.

It literally take us 5 minutes to get the ball into the opposition box.
 
The brand of football we have played for 20 or 30 years is playing like the continentals ie playing it along the back etc.

the continentals gave up that style of play 20 years ago.

Look at spain, they dont fuck on along the back line taking 5 minutes to get into the opposition box - they go for it big style with quick pacy footballers.

Thje modern way is quick and efficient play into the box - we can do it but not playing like teams did 20 years ago. By the time we get within 30 yards of the goal the opponents have everyone back.

I'm not arguing with your point as such, but your argument seemed to suggest we're making progress simply because Capello played some young players.

I'm all for giving youngsters their chance, my point is I didn't see that we tried anything different today. We played it across the back four and when we ran out of ideas there, tried to chip it forward onto Andy Carroll's head.

It's good that Gibbs, Henderson, Carroll, Walcott etc. are getting into the squad, I'm just curious what suggested to you today that progress will be made in the next few years.

You actually said you were pleased with today. What did you see that we didn't?
 
Nemo our defenders have played this "tappy lappy passy the parcel game" along the back for years and got us nowhere. someone mentioned AC Milan and they played like this 20 years ago. The football world has moved on but we havent.

We shouldnt try and play football this way as it has become boring, sterile and totally predictable.

It literally take us 5 minutes to get the ball into the opposition box.

I'm still completely lost ........... are you saying we play like the continentals play now or how they used to play 2 decades ago?
 
I'm not arguing with your point as such, but your argument seemed to suggest we're making progress simply because Capello played some young players.

I'm all for giving youngsters their chance, my point is I didn't see that we tried anything different today. We played it across the back four and when we ran out of ideas there, tried to chip it forward onto Andy Carroll's head.

It's good that Gibbs, Henderson, Carroll, Walcott etc. are getting into the squad, I'm just curious what suggested to you today that progress will be made in the next few years.

You actually said you were pleased with today. What did you see that we didn't?
the first thing I saw was dispensing with the old guard who have got us nowhere. when was the last time that England were brave enough to literally start again with the lads we saw?
 
The brand of football we have played for 20 or 30 years is playing like the continentals ie playing it along the back etc.

the continentals gave up that style of play 20 years ago.

Look at spain, they dont fuck on along the back line taking 5 minutes to get into the opposition box - they go for it big style with quick pacy footballers.

Thje modern way is quick and efficient play into the box - we can do it but not playing like teams did 20 years ago. By the time we get within 30 yards of the goal the opponents have everyone back.

Nonsense. Have you been watching Spain for as much as a second? They don't play direct at all. They pass the ball around and patiently create openings.

Tiki-taka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiki-taka

I cannot believe you posted what you did above, if you've watched any recent international football at all.
 
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