England & Henderson


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Great post by MBH. I thought Jordan was a bit timid but it was good management keeping him on and he played well later in the game I thought.
 
There is a pattern developing, but I think you have got what pattern that is wrong. The pattern, as far as I can tell, is that those teams had success by playing to their strengths and by embracing their footballing identity. We don't have the technique or class to play slow tempo passing football. We have shown that again and again. We try and do it and we are effectively taking on the world at their own game, and we will never better them at it.

If "kick and rush" is what we do well, then we should embrace it. We shouldn't get carried away with thinking there is a right and wrong way to play the game. Who says you have to be pretty to win things in football? Let's get a big lad up front, a couple of natural wingers either side of him, and do what we do best.

That's fine but which of our club sides actually 'does what we do best'?
 
thought we looked better when the old guard went off , and gerrard did he usual glory passing instead off simple passing , might be me like , just a thought
 
I'll be pleased when everybodies fit

that was a shambles
a mish mash
fuckin rubbish...

So why will you be pleased when everybodies fit?

MBH - I'm not convinced Gerrard 'obviously looked like our best player', but if this was Facebook, I'd 'like' the rest.
 
After 43 years of watching football I've come to this same conclusuon. We cant play pretty football so lets not try.

We should do what we do best.

It's idealism. We have a tendency to get bogged down in the belief that only passing and technically proficient football is "good". It is nonsense. The only good football is winning football. The identity of English football, the identity that is sold world wide by the Premier Leauge so it can't be that bad, has always been high tempo, direct, attacking football. There is absolutely no shame in that. Time we had an international manager more interested in winning than pretention.
 
Fair post but unfortunately the "starting again" for England is reverting back to a big man up front who is "a handful" for defenders i.e. Exactly what is expected from the English game of kick and rush.

Spain won the world cup with crisp passing and movement with a great goalscorer up front.

Italy won the World Cup by being defensively organised again but with good passing and movement on the counter to hit teams.

Brazil won/win world cups with their flair and skol which again centres around keeping hold of possession, making the opponent run to try and get it back, pass, move, goal.

France won the world cup with a solid defence, without a recognised centre forward which meant they relied on midfielders keeping hold of the ball with good passing and once again good movement especially from midfield to get the goals.

A pattern developing here? Slower tempo football, passing, moving, incisive football .... Not the old fashioned wingers and whipping in a cross for the good old target man to try and get his head on.

Concurred. The lad gives the ball away too much for an international forward. Being a battering ram for flicking on hoofed balls may be a very effective tactic in English football, but international referees won't stand by and let our forwards kick lumps out of defenders. He's young and will develop though.
 
That's fine but which of our club sides actually 'does what we do best'?

They all play very high tempo football except may be Arsenal, and Manchester City seem obsessed with slowing every game down to a crawl. The rest play a very physical, very high tempo, high intensity game one way or another.
 
So why will you be pleased when everybodies fit?

MBH - I'm not convinced Gerrard 'obviously looked like our best player', but if this was Facebook, I'd 'like' the rest.



bent rooney lampard terry cole hart will all walk into that side

With a fit squad we can see our options

Trial and error games for fuckin has beens such as Boothroyd, Davies etc doesnt auger well for the future#

as much as MBH thinks the way forward is the way back Ie old fashioned centre forward if thats goin to be the case then we need 2 decent wingers not a right winger on the left and a left winger on the right!!!
 
I know this sounds a bit ott but must have been hard for Jordan playing in an inferior side to Sunderland.

Thought him and Carroll did alright.

Main problem with England is when they just play long ball - lost count of the amount of times Lescott just kicked it back to the french....that and the fact Foster is rubbish

In th studio they seemed to be laying the blame on the performance on the feet of the younguns instead of planks like Lescott and the oxygen thief that is Barry.

Lescott was a f***ing disgrace - would rather have had Jones and/or Cahill at the back.
 
Here's an idea. Why not ask the players to go full time and work on their technique?

If, at a time when the good players are developing their technique and modern coaches are refining their tactics, we believe we can succeed by smashing balls into 'the big lad' I think we should accept that we'll never win anything.
 
After 43 years of watching football I've come to this same conclusuon. We cant play pretty football so lets not try.

We should do what we do best.

Give over man, you can't kick lumps out of the opposition and turn over possession with speculative long balls at international level. You're living in the 1970s mate.
 
If, at a time when the good players are developing their technique and modern coaches are refining their tactics, we believe we can succeed by smashing balls into 'the big lad' I think we should accept that we'll never win anything.

Re carrol

desaily hits the fuckin nail on the head and If i was mrking carrol Id do the same

You can let him win the header and pick up the pieces or win the 2nd header

Carrol was totally ineffective tonight

he huffed and he puffed, he chased shaodws thats his game 100% detremination but no quality

this is my analysis of an england No 9 not a scumbag

It helps when yer turn the fuckin sound off and dont listen to the KNOW FUCK ALL commentators
 
We blatantly don't have enough strength in depth or quality. That much is obvious. Id be all for starting again if we had enough underneath the 'old guard' but it's very limited. Like someone said, there are 5 or 6 World Cup failures that would walk back into that side. Look at France, and the state of them in the summer yet they totally outclassed us tonight.
 
I know this sounds a bit ott but must have been hard for Jordan playing in an inferior side to Sunderland.

Funnily enough I agree with that. I kept thinking how much better he would be if Catts was alongside him.
 
We blatantly don't have enough strength in depth or quality. That much is obvious. Id be all for starting again if we had enough underneath the 'old guard' but it's very limited. Like someone said, there are 5 or 6 World Cup failures that would walk back into that side. Look at France, and the state of them in the summer yet they totally outclassed us tonight.
the state of the French in the summer had nothing to do with their ability. They were always a good side.
 
After 43 years of watching football I've come to this same conclusuon. We cant play pretty football so lets not try.

We should do what we do best.

You may well be right.

However, I don't understand the bit about 'doing what we do best'.

Are you talking about England with the likes of Crouch and Heskey?

If not I can't think of a successful club side that operates with a big man and 2 wingers which you seem to be keen on ............. as I've said I don't understand and may be getting the wrong end of the stick.

Who actually does this 'what we do best'?
 
...and you know that because?

We tried it under Taylor man, it was a disaster. You get passed ragged by the opposition, in conditions that often don't support playing the press for 90 minutes.

FIFA told refs to crack down on Crouch at WC 2006. They won't put up with that sort of big lad getting stuck in any more.
 
You may well be right.

However, I don't understand the bit about 'doing what we do best'.

Are you talking about England with the likes of Crouch and Heskey?

If not I can't think of a successful club side that operates with a big man and 2 wingers which you seem to be keen on ............. as I've said I don't understand and may be getting the wrong end of the stick.

Who actually does this 'what we do best'?
Put it another way, England has tried for decades to play like the continentals and we have failed miserably.

Maybe going back to basics would be worth trying.

TBH I never thought I'd ever hear myself saying this but we really havent been very good at copying off the continentals.

you do what you do best and that is a "hybrid" type of football between us ie hoof ball and the rest.

We tried it under Taylor man, it was a disaster. You get passed ragged by the opposition, in conditions that often don't support playing the press for 90 minutes.

FIFA told refs to crack down on Crouch at WC 2006. They won't put up with that sort of big lad getting stuck in any more.
Capello and 20 years later.
 
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