Elliott Embleton


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It’s the way a lot of our fans are unfortunately Demand ‘kids get given a run’ then Do nothing but slag them off when they play. It’s the same with Hume lad was getting pelters towards end of last year despite being our best player

A lot of our fans? I’m not sure I buy that. The conversations I have at the match or with people who are regular match goers tend to be completely different to the tone and content of some of the posts on here. It’s a lot more polarised online. Everything is either class or shite.
 
Dion Sanderson. 21 going on 22. Has made 29 League Appearances with 8 as a sub. Would you want us to sign him or not?
Well that's slightly different isn't it. For one, he's come from a club two levels higher. Two, he did turn out for Cardiff a few times last season at the age of 20, at a higher level. And now he's 21, getting a season under his belt at League 1, and we're getting a proper look at him.

By the time he's 22, he'll have had about 50 league appearances to his name as a regular first teamer - so he's just about on course.

If you're getting to 22 without that kind of experience, then you're going to have question marks over you.
 
Well that's slightly different isn't it. For one, he's come from a club two levels higher. Two, he did turn out for Cardiff a few times last season at the age of 20, at a higher level. And now he's 21, getting a season under his belt at League 1, and we're getting a proper look at him.

By the time he's 22, he'll have had about 50 league appearances to his name as a regular first teamer - so he's just about on course.

If you're getting to 22 without that kind of experience, then you're going to have question marks over you.
He doesn't appear to have had the same problems with injuries as EE so it's possible that, had he done so, he'd have been released and dropped down the leagues and, only then, his potential noticed and signed up and making it in the leagues at 22/23...about the same age as EE.

It's not an exact science
 
Yes, but if we sign somebody that's 22, I expect them to have had more than 50 league appearances to their name, else I'd be very concerned by their signing.
What like George Dobson you mean ? Lots of appearances so the fact that he was shite at football was secondary for you was it ?

The thinking is just too rigid, they are human beings and they are all different.
 
He doesn't appear to have had the same problems with injuries as EE so it's possible that, had he done so, he'd have been released and dropped down the leagues and, only then, his potential noticed and signed up and making it in the leagues at 22/23...about the same age as EE.

It's not an exact science
I was generalising, rather than making a direct comparison to Embleton.

It's not an exact science, but clubs weigh it up. Are the injury problems going to recur throughout his career? It's unfortunate, but there'll be thousands of lads with a "what could have been" story.
 
It’s the way a lot of our fans are unfortunately Demand ‘kids get given a run’ then Do nothing but slag them off when they play. It’s the same with Hume lad was getting pelters towards end of last year despite being our best player
Hume's speed and directness make up a lot of yards and allow us to play further up the pitch, his inability to deliver a ball into the box though, mean that is wasted a lot of the time.

Embleton is clearly a very good footballer and his ability to use both feet is very impressive. His positioning, when I have seen him, has been dreadful as he seems to have no idea what he should be doing when he's not on the ball.

Both are good, but flawed players who need to iron out their quirks if they're going to make it here.

Both players will spend the majority of their careers at a higher level than the one we are currently playing at, but both still require a lot of work on their game.
 
What like George Dobson you mean ? Lots of appearances so the fact that he was shite at football was secondary for you was it ?

The thinking is just too rigid, they are human beings and they are all different.
Well we certainly knew what we were getting - a steady away League 1 player. He'll probably spend his career in the division, but at least he'll have a career.
 
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Well that's slightly different isn't it. For one, he's come from a club two levels higher. Two, he did turn out for Cardiff a few times last season at the age of 20, at a higher level. And now he's 21, getting a season under his belt at League 1, and we're getting a proper look at him.

By the time he's 22, he'll have had about 50 league appearances to his name as a regular first teamer - so he's just about on course.

If you're getting to 22 without that kind of experience, then you're going to have question marks over you.
Embleton was playing u18 football for our Academy whilst we were a PL club and with the club through the time we were in the PL. He also played in the Championship before Sanderson. Has a similar 1st team football experience as Sanderson. He has also featured for England at ever age group up to u20s, Sanderson has no England experience I believe
 
As a club we seem to struggle more with our young players who play in central midfield, repeatedly the people making team selections seem to find it harder to risk a young player having a run of games in the middle of the pitch than elsewhere.

I don't understand why Johnson has been so reluctant to give Dan Neil playing time in our recent run of games when the available options have been limited to say the least. I look at what Dan Neil can do and think he is comfortably our most gifted central midfielder, in a midfield three you'd struggle with three Dan Neils but I'm sure a balance of something like two from Scowen/Winchester/Power/O'Nein and Neil slightly more advanced would work a treat. Harsh but it's almost like LJ feels he has to play out the Grant Leadbitter story to the end before we can get on with the next step in improving that area.

Embleton hit upon the same problem Dan Neil has come across, very limited opportunities for young technical players in central midfield.

It's strange because we come up against teams like Lincoln who do well against us with far less amounts of experience in midfield but plenty of energy and ability.
 
Embleton was playing u18 football for our Academy whilst we were a PL club and with the club through the time we were in the PL. He also played in the Championship before Sanderson. Has a similar 1st team football experience as Sanderson. He has also featured for England at ever age group up to u20s, Sanderson has no England experience I believe
I couldn't give a toss about schoolboy football.

One of his two Championship appearances was as an injury time sub. His other appearance was as a sub too. And it's worth noting we weren't very good, given we finished bottom of the league. Sanderson made 10 appearances for Cardiff, 9 of them starting.

In one season Sanderson's nailed down a starting place for League 1 Sunderland - something Embleton hasn't managed to do in three.

So it's not that similar an experience, but again, I was never comparing the two.
 
I don’t get the ‘he’s 22’ argument. Players often mature later now. Deeney, Lambert, Holt, Vardy, and there’ll be others. I blame it on sterile under 23 football for too long. Very rare do you have 18 year olds making an impact in the first team of clubs. Foden is a special talent, City protected him til the time was right.

As others have pointed out, Embleton made an impact at International level through the youth levels. We sent him out a division lower than where we were to get professional games. He did, was one of their best players.

He comes back to us first into a very cautious Ross side, gets a nasty injury. Then Parkinson gives him some sub appearances and the odd start. He’s now started playing regularly again after we send him out to the level we’re at, Blackpool lad on here is singing his praises. Still some on here have written him off completely.

I’m glad the likes of Speakman are making these types of decisions now. He might not turn into Messi, but I reckon he’ll get further than say, Honeyman?
Deeney - signed for Championship Watford aged 22, and had rocked up 119 League One appearances for Walsall before that.

Lambert - 100 n odd league appearances by the time he was 22, albeit at a lower (this) level.

Holt and Vardy - yeah fair enough, a bit different. Both had to do it the hard way. Holt - Carlisle deal fell through due to the club going bust. Played non-league, got a deal at Sheff Wed, ended up having to drop down the divisions and work his way back up. Vardy - slipped through the net, Sheff Wed again. Played non-league football and worked his way back up. The one thing they share in common is they went out and got games.

You might have an argument with playing "sterile U23 football for too long" where the likes of Embleton and more recent trainees are concerned, but I don't think it can be applied to the four lads you rhymed off above.

Personally, I think U-23 football should be done away with. Or at least massively overhauled.
Rare to have a player genuinely so two footed. If we can't get anything out of him it'll be the clubs fault imo.
:lol: We've given him contracts and opportunities and years of coaching/physio at a category A academy. What more can the club do for him?
As a club we seem to struggle more with our young players who play in central midfield, repeatedly the people making team selections seem to find it harder to risk a young player having a run of games in the middle of the pitch than elsewhere.

I don't understand why Johnson has been so reluctant to give Dan Neil playing time in our recent run of games when the available options have been limited to say the least. I look at what Dan Neil can do and think he is comfortably our most gifted central midfielder, in a midfield three you'd struggle with three Dan Neils but I'm sure a balance of something like two from Scowen/Winchester/Power/O'Nein and Neil slightly more advanced would work a treat. Harsh but it's almost like LJ feels he has to play out the Grant Leadbitter story to the end before we can get on with the next step in improving that area.

Embleton hit upon the same problem Dan Neil has come across, very limited opportunities for young technical players in central midfield.

It's strange because we come up against teams like Lincoln who do well against us with far less amounts of experience in midfield but plenty of energy and ability.
That recent run of games that have seen us climb to third in the table, with a golden opportunity to clinch an automatic spot, and win a trophy whilst we were at it? Aye, sounds a mint time to be hoying in an unknown quantity.
Liam Bridcutt has far less experience in midfield, but plenty of energy and ability? Are you sure about that?
 
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As a club we seem to struggle more with our young players who play in central midfield, repeatedly the people making team selections seem to find it harder to risk a young player having a run of games in the middle of the pitch than elsewhere.

I don't understand why Johnson has been so reluctant to give Dan Neil playing time in our recent run of games when the available options have been limited to say the least. I look at what Dan Neil can do and think he is comfortably our most gifted central midfielder, in a midfield three you'd struggle with three Dan Neils but I'm sure a balance of something like two from Scowen/Winchester/Power/O'Nein and Neil slightly more advanced would work a treat. Harsh but it's almost like LJ feels he has to play out the Grant Leadbitter story to the end before we can get on with the next step in improving that area.

Embleton hit upon the same problem Dan Neil has come across, very limited opportunities for young technical players in central midfield.

It's strange because we come up against teams like Lincoln who do well against us with far less amounts of experience in midfield but plenty of energy and ability.
Both of them are real liabilities on the defensive side of the ball right now. Embleton probably always will be. That's the reason why they haven't found their way into the midfield much yet. Ironically, the shape that Johnson went with on Saturday would probably have suited both quite well (in place of Winchester). However, it's not really great for the rest of the team's shape.
 
Embleton hasn’t played anywhere near enough proper football for a lad his age. Wasted years playing u23 footy when he should’ve been out on loan. Did really well at Grimsby and then was unlucky with injuries last season. Think the lad has talent and will improve with regular games and have a decent career.
 
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