Did Mowbray self Sabotage to make a point?


This is what I don’t get. Mowbray says the strikers aren’t good enough. Boooo Bad Mowbray get gone. His successor says the same. People will lap it up and blame someone else.
The problem with this is that he is putting strikers up front and then playing tactics that is more suited to having a midfielder in the position. Basically hanging the strikers out to dry and claiming they aren't good enough when it is just as much down to his own decision making.

I like the look of Rusyn and Mayenda looks a talent and will be interesting how they look under the new manager and different tactics.
 
I also wondered about this. If he wasn’t happy with the strikers that were brought in, why did he simply not play them?
Dodds said it himself that he had total control over team selection.
By playing them, you could say Mowbray forced his own downfall.
 
What strengths would you look to utilise
For one lets look to mix the tactics up a bit and have the striker play on the defenders shoulder so we have the option of the ball in behind. Get the ball in the channels quickly if the ball is on and get some early balls in the box for the strikers. Not have the striker dropping deep as often to gather the ball and play as a pivot rather than an out and out striker. Ten Trenches Deep done a great video on it that is on here somewhere.

I feel with the tactics Mowbray was using Jobe was the best option up front for the vast majority of the season, it also allowed us to get another midfielder in the team like Pritchard or Adil. As I say it'll be interesting to see how the strikers look when the new manager implements his new tactics.
 
Don’t see what any of this has to do with my post.

The decent striker point is another conversation all together. It comes down to not been many of them about and those that are cost a lot of money which then challenges the model as splashing large sums isn't the remit.

Sorry but that last point is not right…the much revered recruitment team have not brought a striker anywhere close to he being good enough for the first team since Ross Stewart was bought. Just let that sink in.
No ex Premiership striker, no one from a lesser championship, first or second division team. How much did Stewart cost? … pennies in real terms.
Wyke left in the summer of 2021, at which point we had one striker. They have had 2.5 years or 5 transfer windows to find and develop the solution. They failed it is as simple as that
 
The problem with this is that he is putting strikers up front and then playing tactics that is more suited to having a midfielder in the position. Basically hanging the strikers out to dry and claiming they aren't good enough when it is just as much down to his own decision making.

I like the look of Rusyn and Mayenda looks a talent and will be interesting how they look under the new manager and different tactics.

That's absolute nonsense btw and its not effected how Jobe has taken to the role this season on the two or three times he's played it.

The problem has been (and if you look you can go back and find a quote by Speakman on it Jan or Feb) "the traditional number nine is not as prevalent in our team as it would be in other teams in terms of how we play the game". That's the guy who's overseeeing the show telling you that and yet everyone wants us to set up to help players who have mostly looked bang average so far be the most important player in the team.

As a result of that they've largely brought in players who are runners from deep or wide - Rusyn has played as a striker or a wide type left forward moving in from the left, Mayenda similar from the right and apparently Burstow more from deep. Only Hemir looks like a traditional striker. All though have come in with either massively limited first team exposure or are having to adapt to a different footballing culture/country and style of football or both and although early days none have taken it by the scruff of the neck and the likes of Burstow just looks an incredibly poor footballer.

What we need and it was a clear as day when Simms went back to Everton and we Stewart got injured was someone who can simply lead the line, work defenders and if possible get involved in general play, which then helps the way we can build up as a team. What we aren't going to do is completely change to firing in cross after cross (we haven't even got the numbers in the box or the height) or the delivery - both our wingers play on the opposite foot and Ba who is back up can barely put a couple of passes together at times, we probably sold our best crosser of a ball during the summer. Nor are we about to start sitting deep and playing on the counter or going to look for the ball over the top (though we have started to look for that ball more often) so often as that would need more direct and likely pacey players and be a move away from the smaller, talented individuals we have been buying.

We have a style and just like Jobe did yesterday the forward in that has to come deep at times, he has to hold the ball on occasions, he has to win it in the air sometimes and bring others into play and occasionally he has to get in and chase behind and Jobe managed to do all those things yesterday, whereas the others so far mostly havent looked capable. We sold the guy who could do all that because of his contract and injury problems and we've added several who are work in progress when we really needed someone ready made.
 
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Sorry but that last point is not right…the much revered recruitment team have not brought a striker anywhere close to he being good enough for the first team since Ross Stewart was bought. Just let that sink in.
No ex Premiership striker, no one from a lesser championship, first or second division team. How much did Stewart cost? … pennies in real terms.
Wyke left in the summer of 2021, at which point we had one striker. They have had 2.5 years or 5 transfer windows to find and develop the solution. They failed it is as simple as that
Or, we could actually start playing to the strengths of the strikers we have and see if they are good enough before throwing them under the bus.
 
For one lets look to mix the tactics up a bit and have the striker play on the defenders shoulder so we have the option of the ball in behind. Get the ball in the channels quickly if the ball is on and get some early balls in the box for the strikers. Not have the striker dropping deep as often to gather the ball and play as a pivot rather than an out and out striker. Ten Trenches Deep done a great video on it that is on here somewhere.

I feel with the tactics Mowbray was using Jobe was the best option up front for the vast majority of the season, it also allowed us to get another midfielder in the team like Pritchard or Adil. As I say it'll be interesting to see how the strikers look when the new manager implements his new tactics.

Have you missed some of the opportunities mainly Burstow has messed up or one or two of Rusyn and Mayenda's runs?

We've absolutely been a fraction more direct last two weeks and also when Mayenda and Burstow have played.
 
I also wondered about this. If he wasn’t happy with the strikers that were brought in, why did he simply not play them?
Dodds said it himself that he had total control over team selection.
By playing them, you could say Mowbray forced his own downfall.l
Hence the thread
 
Or, we could actually start playing to the strengths of the strikers we have and see if they are good enough before throwing them under the bus.

They are not Harry Kane, you don’t build a team around a poor quality players.
The idea is that the team sets up and plays in a consistent way throughout the club and players no what’s expected of them.
If these strikers were any good they would be able to adapt their game, pretty much same as Jobe does. They clearly have been flogging a dead horse trying to coach them … they simply are not good enough don’t understand why people can’t see it.
They may come good of course but it’s cost TM his job and us promotion trying to find out
 
That's absolute nonsense btw and its not effected how Jobe has taken to the role this season on the two or three times he's played it.

The problem has been (and if you look you can go back and find a quote by Speakman on it Jan or Feb) "the traditional number nine is not as prevalent in our team as it would be in other teams in terms of how we play the game". That's the guy who's overseeeing the show telling you that and yet everyone wants us to set up to help players who have mostly looked bang average so far be the most important player in the team.

As a result of that they've largely brought in players who are runners from deep or wide - Rusyn has played as a striker or a wide type left forward moving in from the left, Mayenda similar from the right and apparently Burstow more from deep. Only Hemir looks like a traditional striker. All though have come in with either massively limited first team exposure or are having to adapt to a different footballing culture/country and style of football or both and although early days none have taken it by the scruff of the neck and the likes of Burstow just looks an incredibly poor footballer.

What we need and it was a clear as day when Simms went back to Everton and we Stewart got fit was someone who can simply lead the line, work defenders and if possible get involved in general play, which then helps the way we can build up as a team. What we aren't going to do is completely change to firing in cross after cross (we haven't even got the numbers in the box or the height) or the delivery - both our wingers play on the opposite foot and Ba who is back up can barely put a couple of passes together at times, we probably sold our best crosser of a ball during the summer. Nor are we about to start sitting deep and playing on the counter or going to look for the ball over the top (though we have started to look for that ball more often) so often as that would need more direct and likely pacey players and be a move away from the smaller, talented individuals we have been buying.

We have a style and just like Jobe did yesterday the forward in that has to come deep at times, he has to hold the ball on occasions, he has to win it in the air sometimes and bring others into play and occasionally he has to get in and chase behind and Jobe managed to do all those things yesterday, whereas the others so far mostly havent looked capable. We sold the guy who could do all that because of his contract and injury problems and we've added several who are work in progress when we really needed someone ready made.
You've lost the plot over losing an average championship manager and have resorted to spouting insults and shite the last few days to anyone who disagrees with you. :lol:

Rusyn especially was making clever runs in the box and especially to the near post but we mostly play too slowly to take advantage of this as we just don't adapt the way we play to the different players who play up front. We expect all the players we play up front to drop in and play as a pivot, a tactic we used well last year with Gelhardt but not moved on from this season but expect different players to play that role. The strikers we have this year are not the same player that Gelhardt was and imo is the reason that Jobe has worked best in that role.

We'll see what these players look like under a new manager and new tactics.
 
The problem with this is that he is putting strikers up front and then playing tactics that is more suited to having a midfielder in the position. Basically hanging the strikers out to dry and claiming they aren't good enough when it is just as much down to his own decision making.

I like the look of Rusyn and Mayenda looks a talent and will be interesting how they look under the new manager and different tactics.
All 4 of these strikers through their youth have been banging them in. I'm sure 2 of them will make it
 
Have you missed some of the opportunities mainly Burstow has messed up or one or two of Rusyn and Mayenda's runs?

We've absolutely been a fraction more direct last two weeks and also when Mayenda and Burstow have played.
Fuck me, you are going to use the few chances we have created for forwards this season as some kind of evidence. We barely create one a game for strikes who are low in confidence in front of goal and under lots of pressure. Hardly the situation to get them playing well imo.
 
That's absolute nonsense btw and its not effected how Jobe has taken to the role this season on the two or three times he's played it.

The problem has been (and if you look you can go back and find a quote by Speakman on it Jan or Feb) "the traditional number nine is not as prevalent in our team as it would be in other teams in terms of how we play the game". That's the guy who's overseeeing the show telling you that and yet everyone wants us to set up to help players who have mostly looked bang average so far be the most important player in the team.

As a result of that they've largely brought in players who are runners from deep or wide - Rusyn has played as a striker or a wide type left forward moving in from the left, Mayenda similar from the right and apparently Burstow more from deep. Only Hemir looks like a traditional striker. All though have come in with either massively limited first team exposure or are having to adapt to a different footballing culture/country and style of football or both and although early days none have taken it by the scruff of the neck and the likes of Burstow just looks an incredibly poor footballer.

What we need and it was a clear as day when Simms went back to Everton and we Stewart got injured was someone who can simply lead the line, work defenders and if possible get involved in general play, which then helps the way we can build up as a team. What we aren't going to do is completely change to firing in cross after cross (we haven't even got the numbers in the box or the height) or the delivery - both our wingers play on the opposite foot and Ba who is back up can barely put a couple of passes together at times, we probably sold our best crosser of a ball during the summer. Nor are we about to start sitting deep and playing on the counter or going to look for the ball over the top (though we have started to look for that ball more often) so often as that would need more direct and likely pacey players and be a move away from the smaller, talented individuals we have been buying.

We have a style and just like Jobe did yesterday the forward in that has to come deep at times, he has to hold the ball on occasions, he has to win it in the air sometimes and bring others into play and occasionally he has to get in and chase behind and Jobe managed to do all those things yesterday, whereas the others so far mostly havent looked capable. We sold the guy who could do all that because of his contract and injury problems and we've added several who are work in progress when we really needed someone ready made.
This should be a sticky and forced fed reading for all Sunderland fans.
 
They are not Harry Kane, you don’t build a team around a poor quality players.
The idea is that the team sets up and plays in a consistent way throughout the club and players no what’s expected of them.
If these strikers were any good they would be able to adapt their game, pretty much same as Jobe does. They clearly have been flogging a dead horse trying to coach them … they simply are not good enough don’t understand why people can’t see it.
They may come good of course but it’s cost TM his job and us promotion trying to find out
We'll see. I think Rusyn will be a good players for us and Mayenda while raw looks a talent who is ready to contribute at least off the bench.

We'd all love a striker of the ability of Stewart but they are hard to come by and we are trying to find talented players before they are proven and cost a fortune. Some will come off and others won't but have to be given a proper chance imo.
 
We'll see. I think Rusyn will be a good players for us and Mayenda while raw looks a talent who is ready to contribute at least off the bench.

We'd all love a striker of the ability of Stewart but they are hard to come by and we are trying to find talented players before they are proven and cost a fortune. Some will come off and others won't but have to be given a proper chance imo.

Only Mayenda out of the three we own is going to make it at this level and he’s not a first team player yet.
 

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