Derby County in administration


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Clubs that go into Administration should be automatically relegated and have a salary cap placed on any signings they make for 5 years, so you don't get the likes of Wigan who were in administration last year splashing money around this Summer.
Ridiculous they way they almost went out of business a year ago and now they're allowed to pay likes of Wyke 10k a week.
 
That's definitely not the answer. The club which emerges from administration is literally not the same club that entered it. Typically, the administrator will sell the assets of the insolvent club into a new company. That new company will have to pay football creditors in full and other unsecured creditors 35% of the amount, and will need to provide proof of funds to do this in addition to the normal business plan approval required of any new owner. Failure to this results in a further nine point deduction. To submit new owners to restrictions that other clubs aren't amounts to a form of double jeopardy, and would greatly increase the risk of no buyer coming forward, and the club disappearing.
I totally disagree. It makes a total mockery of well run clubs that poorly run clubs are allowed to get into huge debt, write it all off, end up back where they started, and then are free to do the same again. The real losers when this happens are not the fans or the owners, but the small local businesses that go bust because they don’t get paid the money that they are owed. Put bluntly a football club that goes bust and reinvents itself as a new legal entity should have to start at the place of the pyramid as any other new club should. To say that it should be allowed to stay where it is without significant extra punishment, because it’s not the same club as before is daft… if it’s not the same club as before then why should it keep the place of the old club as a member of the football league ahead of clubs in non league that are well run?
 
I totally disagree. It makes a total mockery of well run clubs that poorly run clubs are allowed to get into huge debt, write it all off, end up back where they started, and then are free to do the same again. The real losers when this happens are not the fans or the owners, but the small local businesses that go bust because they don’t get paid the money that they are owed. Put bluntly a football club that goes bust and reinvents itself as a new legal entity should have to start at the place of the pyramid as any other new club should. To say that it should be allowed to stay where it is without significant extra punishment, because it’s not the same club as before is daft… if it’s not the same club as before then why should it keep the place of the old club as a member of the football league ahead of clubs in non league that are well run?

Because if that were the case, no one would buy the assets, and the clubs would be liquidated with lower returns to the creditors, the grounds sold off for housing and retail, and fans losing out totally. The entire point of administration (in any industry sector) is to try to maximise the chances of a viable trade continuing. What you suggest would be the antithesis of that.
 
I’m sure I heard earlier that one of Derby’s biggest creditors is the Michael Dell holding company that came close to buying safc?
 
I’m sure I heard earlier that one of Derby’s biggest creditors is the Michael Dell holding company that came close to buying safc?

No. There's a secured loan from MSD UK Holdings Ltd, a subsidiary of MSD Capital, the investment company that invests on behalf of Dell. Three of the individuals managing that formed FPP Sunderland Ltd, which is entirely outside, and independent of, the MSD companies.
 
Because if that were the case, no one would buy the assets, and the clubs would be liquidated with lower returns to the creditors, the grounds sold off for housing and retail, and fans losing out totally. The entire point of administration (in any industry sector) is to try to maximise the chances of a viable trade continuing. What you suggest would be the antithesis of that.
That’s not entirely the point of administration. The number one role of an administrator is to minimise the loss to creditors. In many cases this would involve the continuation of a viable trade, however not in all cases. In the case of football clubs, the best way to minimise loss to creditors would often be exactly what you suggest - the sale of all assets. Why do the fans deserve more than the creditors whose livelihoods are being affected?

Out of interest, the supporters of which club do you think deserve to be in the football league this season? Derby County who broke the rules of the league and cheated last season, or Torquay United who abided by the rules but can’t get in whilst those above them are cheating? What’s the difference between what Derby have done and what Ben Johnson or Lance Armstrong did?
 
That’s not entirely the point of administration. The number one role of an administrator is to minimise the loss to creditors. In many cases this would involve the continuation of a viable trade, however not in all cases. In the case of football clubs, the best way to minimise loss to creditors would often be exactly what you suggest - the sale of all assets. Why do the fans deserve more than the creditors whose livelihoods are being affected?

Out of interest, the supporters of which club do you think deserve to be in the football league this season? Derby County who broke the rules of the league and cheated last season, or Torquay United who abided by the rules but can’t get in whilst those above them are cheating? What’s the difference between what Derby have done and what Ben Johnson or Lance Armstrong did?

The best returns to creditors are those which come from the sale of the assets of a business as a going concern. The only way to achieve this is by the continuation of the club at their current league level, which is why the EFL allow it. The piecemeal sale of assets will always raise less. The current setup also allows for football creditors to be paid in full, and for all other unsecured creditors to receive at least 35% of the money owed to them (these latter points are not in company law, but in the EFL rules). It's therefore self-evident that the best return to all creditors will be achieved by the sale of the assets to a new owner as a going concern, that is, continuing at the club's current status, subject only to the points deduction.
 
Think there's going to be a further 9 points incoming plus more suspended till next season

Bloody awful mate and we were 3 days from the end.
Not out of it completely by any means with one final Court Case where we could get docked points.
You will come back from this and at least remain in the Football League.
Always the fans that get hit.
 
Most Championship clubs are guilty of this, and as has been pointed out we were in a near situation ourselves, the football pyramid is Donald Ducked the abyss between the elite Premier League clubs and the rest of us is disgraceful, yet we all aspire to be part of it?
Norwich have it sorted when it comes to this - get a £100m+ every other year whilst spending nowt
 
The best returns to creditors are those which come from the sale of the assets of a business as a going concern. The only way to achieve this is by the continuation of the club at their current league level, which is why the EFL allow it. The piecemeal sale of assets will always raise less. The current setup also allows for football creditors to be paid in full, and for all other unsecured creditors to receive at least 35% of the money owed to them (these latter points are not in company law, but in the EFL rules). It's therefore self-evident that the best return to all creditors will be achieved by the sale of the assets to a new owner as a going concern, that is, continuing at the club's current status, subject only to the points deduction.
And this makes the system even more corrupt and further away from the norm of business. Football creditors are predominantly agents, players, clubs owed transfer fees etc, not local businesses or club employees. So the individuals who have effectively bankrupt the club are the ones that get paid first, those who are suffering a loss of their business and likelihood get nothing usually. Can you imagine a high street clothing store going into administration and paying other clothing companies fully, whilst not paying any other creditors…. What a corrupt farce of an industry football is. Blinded by greed and then given a way out by supporter sob stories.

I notice that you didn’t answer the question about your opinion on which fans deserve to be in the league more, those of a club who cheat or those of a club who play by the rules of the competition they are in?

I don’t blame you for not answering by the way, there is no good answer to the question. Football is broken and the way it allows clubs to go bust owing millions, but carry on with very limited impact is farcical.
 
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That play-off final between derby and villa was literally sh*t or bust for both clubs
And the QPR v Derby one a few seasons before that
What's the feeling amongst the fan base
I have a mate who first watched Derby in the 60's and was a seasson ticket holder up until the pandemic.
Just numb to it all. It's hard to know who to be angry at anymore, fans from other clubs coming out the woodwork giving the club dogs abuse, the EFL after their pound of flesh, other club owners going for the kill, journalists & media outlets outdoing each other with stupid statements, then there's the sociopath owner who apart from a hollow sounding forced apology seems to be saying he had a go and it didnt work, oh dear never mind!!

Whatever happens it's not going to be cleared up anytime soon, points deducted next season, more debt etc. Dont get me wrong, im not an Uber fan, end of the day nobody's died, its not me thats going to lose millions but it's going to be really sad if we lose the Academy we've worked so hard to build into one of the top ten in the country. Losing the young lads who make up most of the first team would also be a kick in the balls. Other than that theres the expected siege mentality, the crowd was class against Stoke saturday and Rooney's got the team playing some great football shame its all for nowt.

I spent some of my happiest days at Derby following them round in the lower leagues early 80's when we were REALLY shit, think i went over two seasons without seeing an away win and more often than not getting chased all over some shitehole town. If thats where were heading then so be it but for a club like Derby who have always struck me as a bit of a mild, nondescript club im gobsmacked at the amount of pure virtiolic hatred thats out there for us for basically abusing the credit card..

Anyway life goes on and some clubs will be getting a bit twitchy reading about it all

Lee westwood can fuck off as well the fat Forest hacker, laughing about it all on Twitter.
 
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