Death of the High Street



EDGE said:
Have the Landlords finally realised that they can't charge such exorbitant rents.
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Are they exorbitant rents? Presumably the investor/landlord will have bought the unit based on the market value and will need to at least cover its financing costs, plus any profit, void periods, incentives etc... the market will ultimately dictate Values. For the changes people want to see in Sunderland I suspect rental levels will need to increase significantly in order to get private sector developers to invest, otherwise there will always be the reliance on the council which is not a good thing.
 
Valuation office have decided to increase the business rates for all high street units from April 2022.

Part of me hopes they kill off the high street so they get nothing.

Church street in Seaham is on the bones of its arse (mainly because the traditional high street has moved) The valuation office are increasing the rates for all shops there from April 2022. Seems completely out of touch with the reality that many businesses face, with a looming large recessions and no end in sight of utility costs.
 
Epping high Street has done well out of COVID. Well the cafes certainly have and some of the smaller shops. Half the people would normally be in London so they have all seen their lunchtime footfall increase..
 
ontap said:
The whole set up of buying online now is so instant and convenient the high street stores are finished , people can order a wide choose of clothes. , get Em delivered next day , try em on , choose the ones they like and return the rest foc, it’s a no brainer , other than old twats like me that don’t have any reason to pay stupid prices for designer stuff and consequently occasionally binge in Primark ( wife came back with 2prs of jeans ,pr of trainers and a hoodie for me last week £28.00 ) , all the young uns can buy everything they need using a phone.
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Sounds like we have a little street urchin here ;) :lol:
Wild Card said:
Valuation office have decided to increase the business rates for all high street units from April 2022.

Part of me hopes they kill off the high street so they get nothing.

Church street in Seaham is on the bones of its arse (mainly because the traditional high street has moved) The valuation office are increasing the rates for all shops there from April 2022. Seems completely out of touch with the reality that many businesses face, with a looming large recessions and no end in sight of utility costs.
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Business rates are based on the rents paid for similar properties in the area. The rates therefore follow the rental values for an area. The rateable value of a property is essentially its rental value at a specific date based on prevailing rental values.
 
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Wild Card said:
Valuation office have decided to increase the business rates for all high street units from April 2022.

Part of me hopes they kill off the high street so they get nothing.

Church street in Seaham is on the bones of its arse (mainly because the traditional high street has moved) The valuation office are increasing the rates for all shops there from April 2022. Seems completely out of touch with the reality that many businesses face, with a looming large recessions and no end in sight of utility costs.
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I thought rates for retail was coming down and rates for office space and industrial going up from April 2023?
 
mickb2112 said:
Sounds like we have a little street urchin here ;) :lol:

Business rates are based on the rents paid for similar properties in the area. The rates therefore follow the rental values for an area. The rateable value of a property is essentially its rental value at a specific date based on prevailing rental values.
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That's what we were told when we were deciding to take on the lease.

However, the valuation office changed their mind once we were in and all their advice went out the window. Said we were on the high street so regardless of what we actually did we would be charged as a retail unit. They initially said we should pick a similar business and a similar square footage in the same jurisdiction and use that.

We tried to argue and say the church street in seaham was no longer the high street and it was now more on the seafront and Byron place and were told over and over again, don't worry, we will revalue the high street and they have just upped it without any thought.

Took them to court on both fronts, lost on both, the judge said they advice received by the valuation office couldn't be relied on and that I should have followed the legislation.

Suppose he is right, but bloody hell. How can there be no responsibility on the valuation office.

The large units in Byron place pay less in rates than churchstreet in seaham, despite it being a purpose built indoor shopping centre it's not on the traditional high street. Madness.
Osklen said:
I thought rates for retail was coming down and rates for office space and industrial going up from April 2023?
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So did I, I cannot confirm on the industrial yet, it's not public until April I don't think? I can confirm retail has gone up.
 
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Wild Card said:
That's what we were told when we were deciding to take on the lease.

However, the valuation office changed their mind once we were in and all their advice went out the window. Said we were on the high street so regardless of what we actually did we would be charged as a retail unit. They initially said we should pick a similar business and a similar square footage in the same jurisdiction and use that.

We tried to argue and say the church street in seaham was no longer the high street and it was now more on the seafront and Byron place and were told over and over again, don't worry, we will revalue the high street and they have just upped it without any thought.

Took them to court on both fronts, lost on both, the judge said they advice received by the valuation office couldn't be relied on and that I should have followed the legislation.

Suppose he is right, but bloody hell. How can there be no responsibility on the valuation office.

The large units in Byron place pay less in rates than churchstreet in seaham, despite it being a purpose built indoor shopping centre it's not on the traditional high street. Madness.


So did I, I cannot confirm on the industrial yet, it's not public until April I don't think? I can confirm retail has gone up.
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There`s a new rateable value coming in from 1st April 2023 and that will be based on rental values around 1st April 2021 so every commercial property is valued on the same date based on prevailing rental values at 1st April 2021. Your property should be valued in line with similar properties of a similar type of use in the immediate locality. If you are a retail unit for example, you will be valued as a retail unit based on actual rents paid around 1st April 2021 for other similar retail units in your immediate locality. The units of Byron Place must pay less in rent than Church Street. You can appeal the new rateable value which you can do yourself or you can appoint a professional agent to do it for you.
 
mickb2112 said:
There`s a new rateable value coming in from 1st April 2023 and that will be based on rental values around 1st April 2021 so every commercial property is valued on the same date based on prevailing rental values at 1st April 2021. Your property should be valued in line with similar properties of a similar type of use in the immediate locality. If you are a retail unit for example, you will be valued as a retail unit based on actual rents paid around 1st April 2021 for other similar retail units in your immediate locality. The units of Byron Place must pay less in rent than Church Street. You can appeal the new rateable value which you can do yourself or you can appoint a professional agent to do it for you.
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They say you can appeal but there is very little you can do.

We have had our rates in and they deem church street more valuable than in 2021.

I think they should make it very clear that a unit on a high street will be retail regardless of what activities it carries out. It seems a pretty simple concept.

We signed a lease for 100k based on bad advice by the valuation office.

The judge said tough shit, you cannot rely on the valuation office you should have read the law. Judge also rejected my request that church street was no longer the high street, gave him evidence of derelict building data. Cost of rent data and footfall data. Made no difference
We even had the phone transcripts from the valuation office telling me that the rates would be a certain about. Which they then changed when we signed the lease.


The idea that the cannot tell people what the rates are before they are the leasehold is ridiculous as well.

They are not my favourite people at the minute.
 
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Wild Card said:
Valuation office have decided to increase the business rates for all high street units from April 2022.

Part of me hopes they kill off the high street so they get nothing.

Church street in Seaham is on the bones of its arse (mainly because the traditional high street has moved) The valuation office are increasing the rates for all shops there from April 2022. Seems completely out of touch with the reality that many businesses face, with a looming large recessions and no end in sight of utility costs.
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Not quite all…one of our premises is reducing by about 10%…the other increasing by 50%!
Wild Card said:
That's what we were told when we were deciding to take on the lease.

However, the valuation office changed their mind once we were in and all their advice went out the window. Said we were on the high street so regardless of what we actually did we would be charged as a retail unit. They initially said we should pick a similar business and a similar square footage in the same jurisdiction and use that.

We tried to argue and say the church street in seaham was no longer the high street and it was now more on the seafront and Byron place and were told over and over again, don't worry, we will revalue the high street and they have just upped it without any thought.

Took them to court on both fronts, lost on both, the judge said they advice received by the valuation office couldn't be relied on and that I should have followed the legislation.

Suppose he is right, but bloody hell. How can there be no responsibility on the valuation office.

The large units in Byron place pay less in rates than churchstreet in seaham, despite it being a purpose built indoor shopping centre it's not on the traditional high street. Madness.


So did I, I cannot confirm on the industrial yet, it's not public until April I don't think? I can confirm retail has gone up.
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Isn’t retail relief going up from 50% to 75%? That’ll offset the increase for most businesses I think.
 
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Wild Card said:
They say you can appeal but there is very little you can do.

We have had our rates in and they deem church street more valuable than in 2021.

I think they should make it very clear that a unit on a high street will be retail regardless of what activities it carries out. It seems a pretty simple concept.

We signed a lease for 100k based on bad advice by the valuation office.

The judge said tough shit, you cannot rely on the valuation office you should have read the law. Judge also rejected my request that church street was no longer the high street, gave him evidence of derelict building data. Cost of rent data and footfall data. Made no difference
We even had the phone transcripts from the valuation office telling me that the rates would be a certain about. Which they then changed when we signed the lease.


The idea that the cannot tell people what the rates are before they are the leasehold is ridiculous as well.

They are not my favourite people at the minute.
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The appeal process is there to make sure you have the right to seek redress if you think your rateable value is wrong. If it is wrong and you can show this then they will change it. The process follows legislation and case law so the rateable value has to be fully justifiable from a legal point of view. It is the use of the property which is valued so if you have a brewery or a factory for example, operating in a retail unit then it`ll be valued as a brewery or a factory and not a retail unit.

As for the changing figure, if you were told a while back that the rateable value was a certain figure, this would probably be the 2017 figure. There is a new figure coming in from 1st April 2023. These figures are reviewed every 5 years and may soon be every 3 years to take into account rising and falling rental values.

If you are aggrieved with your new figure I`d advise you to see professional representation and they can review your property and its assessment and advise you of whether there are grounds for a formal appeal.
 
DoctorMick said:
Not quite all…one of our premises is reducing by about 10%…the other increasing by 50%!

Isn’t retail relief going up from 50% to 75%? That’ll offset the increase for most businesses I think.
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For one year only I'm lead to believe (wife read the info)
mickb2112 said:
The appeal process is there to make sure you have the right to seek redress if you think your rateable value is wrong. If it is wrong and you can show this then they will change it. The process follows legislation and case law so the rateable value has to be fully justifiable from a legal point of view. It is the use of the property which is valued so if you have a brewery or a factory for example, operating in a retail unit then it`ll be valued as a brewery or a factory and not a retail unit.

As for the changing figure, if you were told a while back that the rateable value was a certain figure, this would probably be the 2017 figure. There is a new figure coming in from 1st April 2023. These figures are reviewed every 5 years and may soon be every 3 years to take into account rising and falling rental values.

If you are aggrieved with your new figure I`d advise you to see professional representation and they can review your property and its assessment and advise you of whether there are grounds for a formal appeal.
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Not what the judge said mate. High street was retail (unless public house) regardless of my activities. Said the potential was there and the footfall.

I also tried on the wrong valuation front and argued church street is not longer the main high street in seaham.

Lost on both points.
 
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with the situation as it is and as someone who cut deals on dozens of retail properties Id be looking for 1 year deals with options and would be offering little more than covering the rates initially
 
anth said:
disagree, councils charging for parking and doing everything they can to discourage cars has done this. I and many others would rather drive to somewhere like team valley or the metro centre than get the bus into the town centre.
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Never understood this, spend £3-4 parking/bus in your nearest city, or burn £5+ in petrol and have to sit on that bastard A1 to get to the Metro Centre.
 

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