Death by Dangerous Cycling



I've moved back to the UK from the Netherlands this year and one of the things that stands out most negatively is cars f***ing everywhere.

I never cycled in NL (I thought I was too shit as I hadn't ridden a bike for 15 years) but walked/got public transport everywhere and f***ing hell it was so much better. You're completely spot on about deliveries etc as I used to see people moving all sorts of huge stuff by bike. People go on about the comparative terrains in NL and the UK but the difference is ultimately in the infrastructure. There's a good public transport network, a proper set of cycle routes, and probably just as importantly they've straight up banned cars in lots of places. Absolutely zero imagination or care when it comes to transport in this country.
Do they have many modded cars?

We have something in our culture where people love their cars and it is a massive status symbol. It gives people a feeling of power when they are behind the wheel. That is why we have young lads in cars that sound like small aircraft just generating anti-social noise. I once had an interview with a group session where the day kicked off by asking everyone to say their name, where they were from, where they worked and what car they drove. Sporty cars were given a nod of approval and it was considered an important way to judge people. Read any story about a lottery winner and they always say the first thing they did was to buy an Audi.

There are many people against the idea of self drive cars, partly because they want to be sat behind the wheel, getting that roar from the engine, getting a kick out if taking corners at speed. When cyclists, horses and pedestrians slow them down, they get angry. How dare someone slower on a cheaper form of travel hamper their trip? “Do you know how much this car is worth?” is not an uncommon phrase from angry drivers. While turning into a junction, I flashed a car out only to realise it was a hearse. At that point I had to let the whole funeral procession out. It took 1minute or less, but I had some woman hammering on her horn.

Likewise many cyclists have this sense of impatience and entitlement. Get out of my way, this is my cycle path. There is something deep in our culture unfortunately.
 
Do they have many modded cars?

We have something in our culture where people love their cars and it is a massive status symbol. It gives people a feeling of power when they are behind the wheel. That is why we have young lads in cars that sound like small aircraft just generating anti-social noise. I once had an interview with a group session where the day kicked off by asking everyone to say their name, where they were from, where they worked and what car they drove. Sporty cars were given a nod of approval and it was considered an important way to judge people. Read any story about a lottery winner and they always say the first thing they did was to buy an Audi.

There are many people against the idea of self drive cars, partly because they want to be sat behind the wheel, getting that roar from the engine, getting a kick out if taking corners at speed. When cyclists, horses and pedestrians slow them down, they get angry. How dare someone slower on a cheaper form of travel hamper their trip? “Do you know how much this car is worth?” is not an uncommon phrase from angry drivers. While turning into a junction, I flashed a car out only to realise it was a hearse. At that point I had to let the whole funeral procession out. It took 1minute or less, but I had some woman hammering on her horn.

Likewise many cyclists have this sense of impatience and entitlement. Get out of my way, this is my cycle path. There is something deep in our culture unfortunately.

People who go on like that about cars are just git big massive fannies who either can’t or aren’t allowed to ride motorbikes.
 
this whole thread was made to highlight the possibility of making cyclists more accountable for their actions.
typically as i predicted way back it has descended into a few pro cyclists whinging and moaning about their lot and how scary it is to cycle nowadays. bunch of fannies who want everything their way and are simply either too thick and bloodyminded to see the world does not revolve around them and their bikes.
perhaps if they didn't act so holier than thou and pointing the finger at every other form of transport they would get a bit more respect from the general public.
But they don’t need to have any actual agency and responsibility, they just need “ infrastructure”.
 
“The government should be protecting vulnerable road users with suitable infrastructure. Everything else is just pissing in the wind.”

Not my fault gov, there wasn’t “suitable infrastructure”.
 
Its madness that it is 2018 and anyone can jump on a pedal bike and ride on the crammed roads, with no training. People who drive should be allowed on the roads on a cycle. people who dont should have to undertake some basic form of training to ride on the roads.
 
Its madness that it is 2018 and anyone can jump on a pedal bike and ride on the crammed roads, with no training. People who drive should be allowed on the roads on a cycle. people who dont should have to undertake some basic form of training to ride on the roads.

If we’re going to have an inclusive culture on our roads then this.

Cyclists are going to have to accept that they can’t hop from pavement to road, run red lights and cycle without proper training.

Drivers are going to have to accept that they are not the only valid users of the road and that cyclists need extra protection.
 
“The government should be protecting vulnerable road users with suitable infrastructure. Everything else is just pissing in the wind.”

Not my fault gov, there wasn’t “suitable infrastructure”.
If i knock someone over in the car/wagon/motorbike i'd expect to face the consequences and rightly so.
An archaic law that could and should be changed is derided and the focus is shifted elsewhere by some folk.
It seems cyclists blame everbody and everything but themselves.
Ps, don't bother replying to this james, you've already proved you're blind to reason.
 
Its madness that it is 2018 and anyone can jump on a pedal bike and ride on the crammed roads, with no training. People who drive should be allowed on the roads on a cycle. people who dont should have to undertake some basic form of training to ride on the roads.
The problem with that is enforcement. You also have to consider that anyone can run or walk on roads without training too. The overhead in making sure cyclists are qualified is massive. How do you begin to achieve that?

You then have to consider kids, what do you do with them? I have been taking my son on a tagalong bike tomschool for a few years, but he has reached the age (7) where he is too heavy and should be on his own bike. We have started talking through good road practice using some of his toy roads and cars. I’m going to start going out this weekend at quiet times introducing him to the roads. All the way I will be right by his side to ensure he is instructed and safe. I’d like to see anyone challenge that as not being a sensible and safe approach.

However if you stick legal training and qualification on that, at what age could he go on the road? What does that do to encourage kids and adults to cycle?

You then have to consider where to enforce it. Just on roads shared by cars or on dedicated cycle tracks?

One of the fundamental differences is that a car weighs a ton, can go very fast and kill someone. Drivers are locked in a bubble with less awareness of outside than a cyclist. Bikes do on average between 8 and 13 mph. More training would be a good thing but I cant see practical way to enforce it in a way where the cost justifies the problem and does not prevent people from taking up healthy modes of transport.

The same arguments apply to bike road tax, which the department of transport investigated but rejected as practically impossible.
 
No, it is utterly true.

The Netherlands and Denmark are like a billiard table man! They have an unusually high bike usage, good for them.

Brits aren’t interested in replacing their cars with bikes, safety might be a concern for some, but many just want to keep their cars. If you think a bike is a direct replacement for a car, then you need to think a bit harder!

I’m sure people say all sorts of well meaning things for the clipboard brigade, but when it comes down to it, they like jumping in their warm, comfortable cars and getting done in half an hour what would take half a day on a bike.

This. Basically we are a nation of lazy fat fuckers who put convenience above everything else.
 
The problem with that is enforcement. You also have to consider that anyone can run or walk on roads without training too. The overhead in making sure cyclists are qualified is massive. How do you begin to achieve that?

You then have to consider kids, what do you do with them? I have been taking my son on a tagalong bike tomschool for a few years, but he has reached the age (7) where he is too heavy and should be on his own bike. We have started talking through good road practice using some of his toy roads and cars. I’m going to start going out this weekend at quiet times introducing him to the roads. All the way I will be right by his side to ensure he is instructed and safe. I’d like to see anyone challenge that as not being a sensible and safe approach.

However if you stick legal training and qualification on that, at what age could he go on the road? What does that do to encourage kids and adults to cycle?

You then have to consider where to enforce it. Just on roads shared by cars or on dedicated cycle tracks?

One of the fundamental differences is that a car weighs a ton, can go very fast and kill someone. Drivers are locked in a bubble with less awareness of outside than a cyclist. Bikes do on average between 8 and 13 mph. More training would be a good thing but I cant see practical way to enforce it in a way where the cost justifies the problem and does not prevent people from taking up healthy modes of transport.

The same arguments apply to bike road tax, which the department of transport investigated but rejected as practically impossible.
One way is to incentivise cycling training rather than mandating it, eg give £50 vouchers to go towards the cost of a bike on completion of a course.
 
If i knock someone over in the car/wagon/motorbike i'd expect to face the consequences and rightly so.
An archaic law that could and should be changed is derided and the focus is shifted elsewhere by some folk.
It seems cyclists blame everbody and everything but themselves.
Ps, don't bother replying to this james, you've already proved you're blind to reason.

It was derided as the government have got their priorities so wrong, focusing on the 0.1% of road danger rather than the other 99.9%. We've been promised a review of road safety for about four years now and we end up with this getting rushed through because the media completely lost the plot over it. It shouldn't be the way we go about things, it was based on hysteria rather than evidence. That's a concerning approach if you start applying it in other areas of law /safety reviews etc.

I don't think you'll find anyone against the changing of the law (though I haven't a clue how it'll be enforced), it's just the way in which this has come about.

One way is to incentivise cycling training rather than mandating it, eg give £50 vouchers to go towards the cost of a bike on completion of a course.

What will that achieve though Janie? All drivers have passed tests to be on the roads yet still run red lights, drive when pissed, use mobiles, park on pavements etc.
 
It was derided as the government have got their priorities so wrong, focusing on the 0.1% of road danger rather than the other 99.9%. We've been promised a review of road safety for about four years now and we end up with this getting rushed through because the media completely lost the plot over it. It shouldn't be the way we go about things, it was based on hysteria rather than evidence. That's a concerning approach if you start applying it in other areas of law /safety reviews etc.

I don't think you'll find anyone against the changing of the law (though I haven't a clue how it'll be enforced), it's just the way in which this has come about.



What will that achieve though Janie? All drivers have passed tests to be on the roads yet still run red lights, drive when pissed, use mobiles, park on pavements etc.

It needs the stick to go with the carrot, insurance, riding bans and crushing of bikes.
 
Remarkably difficult for your average punter to get up to a dangerous speed on a bike in a reasonably well populated area mind.

One thing which could be helpful for motorists and cyclists is to ban jaywalking like they do in some German states (or all of them?).

Pedestrians not paying attention to cyclists is a big problem. I've stopped going through Rusholme, dedicated cycle lanes on an evening now as it is so bad. You can go as slow as you want but one bloke stepped backwards off a curb whilst talking on a phone. I had to put my bike down or I would have hit him. To be fair he apologised, many just look at you with incredulity, surprised you are cycling in a bike lane.


There are many problems and lots lie with cyclists too. As well as creating offences they should make all new bikes have disc brakes v blocks are just shit. Brake lights and indicators would be a step in the right direction as well.
Also public info campaigns on the new lanes and what to look out for would be good.
 

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