Dalian Atkinson - Police on trial

[Gaggoears]

There is no game to play. It was a simple question based on that forum members response. You are correct though. The police investigated, presented the evidence to the CPS who authorised the charges. The police charged them.
It’s the CPS who prosecute on behalf of the crown. The police simply gather the evidence for them.

No shit. So my typo mistake is all you have to offer ?

Have you anything of note you would like to add or just random gibberish ?

 

[The Krankie Returns]

No shit. So my typo mistake is all you have to offer ?

Have you anything of note you would like to add or just random gibberish ?

Not particularly. I’ve added to this thread enough.

 

[Gaggoears]

Not particularly. I’ve added to this thread enough.

Yes. It was outstanding and very thought provoking.

Can't wait for you to return.

 

[ned_werby]

There is no game to play. It was a simple question based on that forum members response. You are correct though. The police investigated, presented the evidence to the CPS who authorised the charges. The police charged them.
It’s the CPS who prosecute on behalf of the crown. The police simply gather the evidence for them.

And why screeching "cop hater/lover" gets us nowhere. too many people with too many agendas on this board.

 

[Cockney Mackem]

Exactly what policy is it that has breached then?

I love it the way cop bashers use every opportunity to get a dig in. Are you even remotely aware how often Police Officers make critical judgement calls in dynamic life threatening situations often in a split second, then have their actions scrutinised over weeks months and even years by Solicitors, Barristers, the Media Uncle Tom Cobblery and all who pour over every minutia of detail at leisure with the Luxury there is no pressure of time on them?

You really have no idea, so stop embarrassing yourself.

The officers are currently on trial for criminal offences including murder. I just assumed that would be against police conduct regulations, but please accept my deepest apologies, embarrassing cop basher that I am, if murdering civilians is in fact entirely compliant with police rules

 

[The Krankie Returns]

And why screeching "cop hater/lover" gets us nowhere. too many people with too many agendas on this board.

Exactly right. I make no secret of being a cop. I’ve done it for long enough and I’m proud of the job I do.
There are clearly other cops who post on here and I can say for certain that we all share the same thoughts about officers who cross the line.
I don’t know the full ins and outs of what happened. Neither does anyone else on this forum for that matter.
I understand that there is a lot of speculation about what has or hasn’t happened, but that’s all it is, speculation.

 

[pavarotti1980]

The officers are currently on trial for criminal offences including murder. I just assumed that would be against police conduct regulations, but please accept my deepest apologies, embarrassing cop basher that I am, if murdering civilians is in fact entirely compliant with police rules

If proven then I would imagine yes they would have breached quite a lot of regulations (and laws). But until a point in which they have been found guilty, or even not guilty and subsequently (gross) misconduct is proven then they have not breached anything

 

[Gaggoears]

Exactly right. I make no secret of being a cop. I’ve done it for long enough and I’m proud of the job I do.
There are clearly other cops who post on here and I can say for certain that we all share the same thoughts about officers who cross the line.
I don’t know the full ins and outs of what happened. Neither does anyone else on this forum for that matter.
I understand that there is a lot of speculation about what has or hasn’t happened, but that’s all it is, speculation.

Who is criticising the police on here ?
We have two individuals who happen to be in a police uniform acting in a manner that has created a police investigation, the two witness statements are shocking and this is what the thread is about.

Two individuals not the police force.

 

[Cockney Mackem]

If proven then I would imagine yes they would have breached quite a lot of regulations (and laws). But until a point in which they have been found guilty, or even not guilty and subsequently (gross) misconduct is proven then they have not breached anything

Agreed, and my first post on the thread noted IF this is true and IF the evidence proves the prosecution's case etc.

By the same token, if they're guilty of murdering a civilian, none of the arguments presented in this thread about policing being a dangerous job and officers serving the public in difficult circumstances are much of a defence either

 

[The Krankie Returns]

Who is criticising the police on here ?
We have two individuals who happen to be in a police uniform acting in a manner that has created a police investigation, the two witness statements are shocking and this is what the thread is about.

Two individuals not the police force.

I think you need to reread this thread. There are are plenty of posts which criticise the police in general.

 

[pavarotti1980]

Agreed, and my first post on the thread noted IF this is true and IF the evidence proves the prosecution's case etc.

By the same token, if they're guilty of murdering a civilian, none of the arguments presented in this thread about policing being a dangerous job and officers serving the public in difficult circumstances are much of a defence either

I would imagine they would be mitigating circumstances

 

[Cockney Mackem]

Who is criticising the police on here ?
We have two individuals who happen to be in a police uniform acting in a manner that has created a police investigation, the two witness statements are shocking and this is what the thread is about.

Two individuals not the police force.

I made a point of saying that part of the problem is the failure of other services to prevent these situations, meaning police are forced to put themselves and civilians in harm's way more than they should have to.

But apparently I'm just a cop basher

 

[The Krankie Returns]

Agreed, and my first post on the thread noted IF this is true and IF the evidence proves the prosecution's case etc.

By the same token, if they're guilty of murdering a civilian, none of the arguments presented in this thread about policing being a dangerous job and officers serving the public in difficult circumstances are much of a defence either

None of the cops on here, myself included would ever say that is a defence to be honest. We all know the microscope we are under every single time we put on the uniform.

 

[Gaggoears]

I made a point of saying that part of the problem is the failure of other services to prevent these situations, meaning police are forced to put themselves and civilians in harm's way more than they should have to.

But apparently I'm just a cop basher

I've noticed, it's a baffling thread to say the least.

 

[Tadger]

Exactly what policy is it that has breached then?

I love it the way cop bashers use every opportunity to get a dig in. Are you even remotely aware how often Police Officers make critical judgement calls in dynamic life threatening situations often in a split second, then have their actions scrutinised over weeks months and even years by Solicitors, Barristers, the Media Uncle Tom Cobblery and all who pour over every minutia of detail at leisure with the Luxury there is no pressure of time on them?

You really have no idea, so stop embarrassing yourself.

I fully appreciate that sentiment. I completely accept that they have a hard job and have to deal with circumstances that most don’t and have to make very quick decisions in difficult situations and are human beings with flaws.

But often, when coppers do make mistakes or worse, they get away with it because they trade on the goodwill of the public who by and large appreciate what they do.

All I said was the eyewitness account was pretty damning.

 

[barts45]

I'm posting about situation training like dealing with mental health members of the public.

Booting him in the head after taser use is not part of the training.

no such training at all mate your completely wrong

When trained Professionals attend a patient for the purpose of assessing Mental Health, and the subject gets rather "tasty" the first thing they invariably do is call the Police. The second thing they do, is stand back and let the Police deal with it. It is impossible to reason with someone suffering an episode of psychosis. By all means adopting a calm and measured approach to try and reassure the patient is the right and sensible way, but if violence ensues, retreating is not an option and the gloves are off.

In an instance where someone is psychotic and violent, the reality is the only intervention possible and practicable is the attendance of the Police, not only because they have training in conflict situations, but also they have equipment used for restraint.

The thought that intervention by any other Agency is possible is completely ludicrous and to suggest otherwise is either totally naïve or a deliberate wind up.

Here here

 

[Patch]

He threatened to kill his father and told his father he'd killed his siblings. Maybe give him a business card with the samaritans number on it

None of that will have been known to the officers. A neighbour called in the disturbance. The whole thing kicked off when they arrived so that's all irrelevant to their assessment.

No no. We've done this before where you refuse to answer. 5ft 4 female officer that is probably half the weight of an out of control individual threatening to kill people. How do you deal with that? Give me solutions. Like actual real life solutions.

Do you not think the 5ft 4 police officer would have training to deal with such a threat?

 

[The Krankie Returns]

None of that will have been known to the officers. A neighbour called in the disturbance. The whole thing kicked off when they arrived so that's all irrelevant to their assessment.


Do you not think the 5ft 4 police officer would have training to deal with such a threat?

It’s called situational appreciation. The 5’4” officer would have to weigh up all the options open to her in the space of a few seconds then decide what would be appropriate.
I’m 5’7”, fairly fit, solid build. What I would choose to do in that situation may be very different to what she chose to do.
As an aside over here the training is to meet deadly force with the same. In short he would have had a gun pointed at him very quickly.

 

[Patch]

I've read the linked articles so that's the limit of my knowledge of this. However, it doesn't seem the bloke did anything other than threaten the cops. I didn't see anything where he attempted to strike them. On the basis of a perceived physical threat, he was tasered and had his head kicked in. How is that anything other than unlawful?

Happy to be corrected on the circumstances if I've got something wrong.

 

[The Krankie Returns]

I've read the linked articles so that's the limit of my knowledge of this. However, it doesn't seem the bloke did anything other than threaten the cops. I didn't see anything where he attempted to strike them. On the basis of a perceived physical threat, he was tasered and had his head kicked in. How is that anything other than unlawful?

Happy to be corrected on the circumstances if I've got something wrong.

That’s the limit of my knowledge of the incident as well.
To quote you though “on the basis of a perceived physical threat”. There is no requirement for an officer to be assaulted first. If I thought I was going to suffer an injury, I’d get in there first as well. But like I’ve said and you as well, none of us were there. We have our own perception of what has gone on and give our opinions based on that.