Cynicism about Donald et al?

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JimmyQuinn said:
Think he is suggesting that other owners would have taken over but no remaining debt whatsoever, so the money would never have left the club and ES would have paid off SBC himself as part of the deal to sell up.
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in that scenario-the use of para to pay sbc benefits ellis more than the current owners..
 


JimmyQuinn said:
Think he is suggesting that other owners would have taken over but no remaining debt whatsoever, so the money would never have left the club and ES would have paid off SBC himself as part of the deal to sell up.
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Only because (according to Short) all the other potential owners would have ported across the debt the club owed to Drumaville. That would have given those other buyers free access to £70m, which could have been withdrawn from the club to offset their purchase price. If they were borrowing the purchase price in the first place, that would have made it the perfect leveraged buyout, as the club would have needed to borrow externally to repay the internal debt. Short could probably had lost less doing it that way; it's to his credit that he took an offer which was most likely better for the club, but worse for him personally.
 
Randy Savage said:
Anyone else as cynical about Donald et al as my old man?

Seen him yesterday and his opening gambit to me was “have you seen what those two spivs, Donald and slicked back, are up to now. Using the parachute money to buy the club and flipping it for a hefty profit within a year when they knew they never had the money to run it long term.”

Now, let it be said I like SD and I think there is a genuineness to him. I take what he says at face value. However, I’m a fairly trusting person for the most part.

Does anyone share my old man’s view, or is he just a cynical old Sunderland supporter worn down by six decades of largely shite?
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Doesnt read the daily mail does he?
 
JimmyQuinn said:
That scenario is that the paras would never be used to pay SBC< which I think is what the other poster is suggesting
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then stewart etc would have wanted that deal-not the one they got..because ellis would have paid off all the sbc loan and stewart would have got the para money-if that were on offer-why would he not have taken it-relative to the deal he did take-which involves no para for him?
 
Grumpy Old Man said:
But would still have left SAFC owing the new owners £68m in internal debt.
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No, as he'd have paid off the lot of the external and cancelled his internal - or that's what I think the lad is saying!

On that basis this deal was the best on offer for him as it gave him money to pay off a chunk as well as stop chucking his own cash into a bottomless pit
 
JimmyQuinn said:
No, as he'd have paid off the lot of the external and cancelled his internal - or that's what I think the lad is saying!

On that basis this deal was the best on offer for him as it gave him money to pay off a chunk as well as stop chucking his own cash into a bottomless pit
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Short's on record as saying Madrox were the only bidder who didn't want the internal debt ported to them.
 
Randy Savage said:
Anyone else as cynical about Donald et al as my old man?

Seen him yesterday and his opening gambit to me was “have you seen what those two spivs, Donald and slicked back, are up to now. Using the parachute money to buy the club and flipping it for a hefty profit within a year when they knew they never had the money to run it long term.”

Now, let it be said I like SD and I think there is a genuineness to him. I take what he says at face value. However, I’m a fairly trusting person for the most part.

Does anyone share my old man’s view, or is he just a cynical old Sunderland supporter worn down by six decades of largely shite?
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I know a few. I genuinely can’t get my head round it.
Mind, some people are just like that about everything.
 
chriswallace85 said:
Most of this, but definitely not this.
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Haha, fair enough. I don't think it would work as a long term solution, but a) I think a fans group could raise just as much money as SD & CM have bought the club with, b) it would give the fans an opportunity to put safeguards in to a future sale process to ensure the fans remain represented at some level and c) it seems to have worked alright for Swansea City.

kildaremackem said:
which owners have a track record in footballl before they buy a club? our owners are among the more experienced in the league-in that rhe vast majority of owners have never run a club at any level before they take over?
which club did bob murray run before safc? ir ellis short? which club didn the man city owner run?
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The difference being that all of the three examples you mention had plenty of money (at least for the standards of the time in the case of Sir Bob). I don't think an owner needs lots of money AND a track record, but they need one of the two.
 
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dixonsafc said:
SD said on the Roker Report podcast that the cash from the parachute payment would be fed back into the club when it’s needed. But how will that work if they sell 75% of the club this summer?

Fair play if it is still going to be paid, but can understand why that would look like he’s pulling a fast one?
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The truth on who put what in, who’s took what out, who’s made the most etc etc will all come out soon and a lot of people will be shocked and angry. I said from day one contrary to comments from within,I’d give them a year and they’ll walk with millions, but as a lot say we are now better off regardless what they do.
 
Oxford comments there on CM identical to ours, hard to warm to him.
Likes to use mountains of jargon when not required. Probably thinks that blows away our dim support.
 
Carlclsmackem said:
Tell him to listen to Roker Report latest podcast where they are both Interviewed. If they never came in when they did we would not have a club anymore, tell ya dad that
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No don’t. Shouldn’t lie to your parents

SPUFF said:
Oxford comments there on CM identical to ours, hard to warm to him.
Likes to use mountains of jargon when not required. Probably thinks that blows away our dim support.
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Methven is adept at answering questions that nobody asked him apart from him.
 
kildaremackem said:
the accounts oas of now-today-show they didnt use the para money to buy the club. Thats just an established proven fact.


wont be life changing for him? if he makes £10m profit (which he wont0 it doesnt change his life..it diesnt double his weath-which is probably what life changing is..the life changing event was when he sold heis stake in Hastingsd insurance for tens of millions while still in his early forties..
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Kildare i thought it wasnt as clear as you have made out ?robbing peter to pay paul comes to mind !If your an accountant ? perhaps a simple balance sheet or flow chart of where the money went might stop all this confusion !I listened to don on radio newcastle talking about the parachute money and the explination sounded a bit awkward and fluid to me "some of the moneys" .....not club cost 40 million! i paid 40 million for the club !and i didnt use any of the revenue garned from the club following the purchase to buy the club.Its very simple to be clear and he hasnt been..If you say donald and co have purchased the club with 40 million of their own money(not a penny derived from the clubs revenue stream ) I will accept it and move on!
 
oddbod said:
Kildare i thought it wasnt as clear as you have made out ?robbing peter to pay paul comes to mind !If your an accountant ? perhaps a simple balance sheet or flow chart of where the money went might stop all this confusion !I listened to don on radio newcastle talking about the parachute money and the explination sounded a bit awkward and fluid to me "some of the moneys" .....not club cost 40 million! i paid 40 million for the club !and i didnt use any of the revenue garned from the club following the purchase to buy the club.Its very simple to be clear and he hasnt been..If you say donald and co have purchased the club with 40 million of their own money(not a penny derived from the clubs revenue stream ) I will accept it and move on!
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Step by step I think it looks something like this:

1. Short agrees to sell the shares in Sunderland then owned by Drumaville to Madrox for £15m, with an additional obligation on Madrox to repay to SAFC Ltd the £25m of parachute payments used to clear part of the SBC loan. This gives a total cost of investment of £40m.

2. Donald puts £5m into Madrox, which is paid over to Short as a first instalment.

3. A £10m loan is created between Madrox and SAFC to ease cash flow.

4. The Ndong complications emerge, and Short agrees to reduce the amount payable directly to him to £12m, and the total cost to Madrox to £37m.

This is the situation at the year end. It looks messier than it should because the creditors note in the Madrox accounts are misleading. As Madrox filed small company accounts, they aren't obliged to give a very detailed breakdown. A guess at a breakdown of the creditors number of £37m would be £10m owed to SAFC, £5m shareholder loan from Donald, £7m owing to Short (the balance of the £12m due to him, and £15m other creditors, being the balance of the £25m parachute not disclosed as an intercompany debt at this stage (not something I'd agree with).

After the year end, we get:

5. Short receives £7m in cash to complete the share purchase.

6. Donald advances another £7m to Madrox.

7. The intercompany position is resolved.

The should leave Madrox with a balance sheet showing an investment asset of £37m, balanced by a £12m loan from Donald, and a £25m intercompany debt to SAFC for the parachute payments. It is this £25m balance which we should see reduced over time as it's repaid to provide working capital in SAFC. This process could already have begun; we won't know until the next set of accounts are filed next year.
 
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