Coronavirus compendium thread

[Locke's SAFC]

Kids definitely do spread it. But schools were never a driver of infection, they just reflected high community prevalence. Shutting schools is the biggest mistake in the whole Covid response.

That was the narrative, but at the time that was being pushed I had a look at the ONS data and it turned out less than 1 in 6 of our population goes to a school but 1 in 4 of people infected during that week had been in a school that week. So the narrative didn't fit what was actually happening. 'Think the government made their decision to have schools open regardless of the risk in schools and to support that they pushed the narrative that schools are not above average venues for spreading the virus.

 

[Brian Griffin]

Kids definitely do spread it. But schools were never a driver of infection, they just reflected high community prevalence. Shutting schools is the biggest mistake in the whole Covid response.

Not convinced kids do like.

 

[maginpeace]

Not convinced kids do like.

Well they definitely definitely do. Everyone does. But not significantly more than adults

That was the narrative, but at the time that was being pushed I had a look at the ONS data and it turned out less than 1 in 6 of our population goes to a school but 1 in 4 of people infected during that week had been in a school that week. So the narrative didn't fit what was actually happening. 'Think the government made their decision to have schools open regardless of the risk in schools and to support that they pushed the narrative that schools are not above average venues for spreading the virus.

This is a good point but there have been lots of studies suggesting that schools were not drivers of transmission. Even if they were, the degree to which they could have been did not lead to school shutting being justified or proportionate. School closures resulted in much greater harm.

 

[Botchie]

Kids definitely do spread it. But schools were never a driver of infection, they just reflected high community prevalence. Shutting schools is the biggest mistake in the whole Covid response.

It was the right thing to in the first lockdown because we didn't know what we were dealing with. Although they should have gone back sooner. Primary schools should have definitely been open during the second lockdown and the very least year 11. It was the unions that pushed for them to be closed the second time and I think they would have stayed open if they didn't. My wife (Primary school teacher) caught it at work during the second lockdown and ended up on the sick for 12 weeks. She went from being able to run a marathon to struggling with the stairs. She was in a class with 20 and then coming home where me and the kids were working and doing school work. It’s highly likely she caught it from a kid in her class.

Not convinced kids do like.

Bullshit.

 

[maginpeace]

It was the right thing to in the first lockdown because we didn't know what we were dealing with. Although they should have gone back sooner. Primary schools should have definitely been open during the second lockdown and the very least year 11. It was the unions that pushed for them to be closed the second time and I think they would have stayed open if they didn't. My wife (Primary school teacher) caught it at work during the second lockdown and ended up on the sick for 12 weeks. She went from being able to run a marathon to struggling with the stairs. She was in a class with 20 and then coming home where me and the kids were working and doing school work. It’s highly likely she caught it from a kid in her class.

Bullshit.

I disagree it was the right thing to do in the first lockdown but ok.

 

[Botchie]

I disagree it was the right thing to do in the first lockdown but ok.

Fair enough, marra. Mind when you look back there was a few crazy things. Closing play parks for example, or not even being allowed to meet one other person outside for a walk.

 

[maginpeace]

Fair enough, marra. Mind when you look back there was a few crazy things. Closing play parks for example, or not even being allowed to meet one other person outside for a walk.

Yes. They were mental. But it was a scary time.

My focus (professionally) is how badly children were disproportionately disadvantaged.

 

[Botchie]

Yes. They were mental. But it was a scary time.

My focus (professionally) is how badly children were disproportionately disadvantaged.

Not just young children. I work in a college and during the lockdowns it was an eye opener at just how many of the students couldn't access the Internet, or didn’t have an adequate device to do their work on.

 

[Locke's SAFC]

School closures resulted in much greater harm.

I don't think you have any way of quantifying that assertion.

In that sort of situation a good number of people are going to be 'harmed', whether it's loss of life, family heartache, loss of business, loss of job, education being suspended and so on. There was no easy way out.

I think it is generally accepted that without such harsh measures the NHS would have been swamped, and in my opinion life threatening illnesses, in huge numbers, take precedence over everything else. As I say, something had to give and it was going to be something major. I have a lot of sympathy with people having to suspend their lives and losing their businesses and years of hard graft, and I'm confident we could have done a lot better; but a large minority in this country let the rest of us down and played a part in business and job closures.

'Just working from home drove me mad after about a couple of months of it. Without being able to look out of the window and watch the birds in the garden, for a good two years, I'd be locked up in an asylum somewhere at this point. A lockdown is not something I ever wanted, nor working from home, and I think we could have found a middle ground of moderate restrictions while limiting the spread of the virus. 'Problem being we had a shit load of people who just weren't interested in the damage their actions would cause, and that includes lockdowns and school closures. In the end, the lack of due care by the large minority meant something major was going to have to give.

 

[maginpeace]

Not just young children. I work in a college and during the lockdowns it was an eye opener at just how many of the students couldn't access the Internet, or didn’t have an adequate device to do their work on.

Also true. But outwith my area of expertise.

The lockdowns really exposed inequalities across the board.

A difficult but manageable period if you have broadband, multiple devices, a garden , a job that furloughs etc. Fucked otherwise. It was a shambles.

I don't think you have any way of quantifying that assertion.

In that sort of situation a good number of people are going to be 'harmed', whether it's loss of life, family heartache, loss of business, loss of job, education being suspended and so on. There was no easy way out.

I think it is generally accepted that without such harsh measures the NHS would have been swamped, and in my opinion life threatening illnesses, in huge numbers, take precedence over everything else. As I say, something had to give and it was going to be something major. I have a lot of sympathy with people having to suspend their lives and losing their businesses and years of hard graft, and I'm confident we could have done a lot better; but a large minority in this country let the rest of us down and played a part in business and job closures.

'Just working from home drove me mad after about a couple of months of it. Without being able to look out of the window and watch the birds in the garden, for a good two years, I'd be locked up in an asylum somewhere at this point. A lockdown is not something I ever wanted, nor working from home, and I think we could have found a middle ground of moderate restrictions while limiting the spread of the virus. 'Problem being we had a shit load of people who just weren't interested in the damage their actions would cause, and that includes lockdowns and school closures. In the end, the lack of due care by the large minority meant something major was going to have to give.

I haven’t just made that up. Analysis of that period supports my assertion.

I’m not saying lockdowns weren’t justified. They were, and I fully supported them. They were the right thing to do.

I’m saying closing schools caused more harm than good. Which there is a lot of evidence to support.

 

[Locke's SAFC]

Also true. But outwith my area of expertise.

The lockdowns really exposed inequalities across the board.

A difficult but manageable period if you have broadband, multiple devices, a garden , a job that furloughs etc. Fucked otherwise. It was a shambles.

I haven’t just made that up. Analysis of that period supports my assertion.

I’m not saying lockdowns weren’t justified. They were, and I fully supported them. They were the right thing to do.

I’m saying closing schools caused more harm than good. Which there is a lot of evidence to support.

I'm interested to hear the full argument as to how school closures did a lot more harm but to be honest, I can't really be bothered to look. I think the decision has been taken among the government and health bodies to ensure people are treated for other illnesses and ensure Covid simply isn't news anymore. So, that's that. I can understand why that decision has been taken. My only gripe is that we can still move on while taking a bit more care to limit the spread of Covid. If I'm honest, I think the government and health bodies have to make that decision at this point, but the large minority are going to let the rest of the country down again. I've posted on another thread of an example of what is happening in offices in hospital grounds - that doesn't have to happen - we can still move on with those office workers doing the right thing, and all we're talking about is working from home for a few days and wearing a mask for a few days. I am pretty confident that all over England workplaces will have people going to work with Covid, bonuses to be had, and that attitude is where the problem lies and contrary to what some people think, that sort of behaviour will prevent us from moving on.

 

[maginpeace]

I'm interested to hear the full argument as to how school closures did a lot more harm but to be honest, I can't really be bothered to look. I think the decision has been taken among the government and health bodies to ensure people are treated for other illnesses and ensure Covid simply isn't news anymore. So, that's that. I can understand why that decision has been taken. My only gripe is that we can still move on while taking a bit more care to limit the spread of Covid. If I'm honest, I think the government and health bodies have to make that decision at this point, but the large minority are going to let the rest of the country down again. I've posted on another thread of an example of what is happening in offices in hospital grounds - that doesn't have to happen - we can still move on with those office workers doing the right thing, and all we're talking about is working from home for a few days and wearing a mask for a few days. I am pretty confident that all over England workplaces will have people going to work with Covid, bonuses to be had, and that attitude is where the problem lies and contrary to what some people think, that sort of behaviour will prevent us from moving on.

The increased harm from school closures was: developmental delay, increase in NAI, educational delay, social skills delay, delay in normal winter respiratory viruses etc etc.

 

[lurker]

I was in the cash and carry this morning and the place had sold out of Syke's pop and also Westler burgers and even Little Chef sauce was being rationed to 6 bottles each, it's madness i have not seen since the Brexit vote. Anyway, we are doing our bit and making sure our customers are sitting on metre away. My new head fryer, Roscoe, has really long arms so he is serving at the moment.

 

[dangermows]

It's absolutely ripping through schools at the moment.

Well they definitely definitely do. Everyone does. But not significantly more than adults

Of course they spread it. Just like they spread other illnesses. Its lunacy to suggest otherwise.

 

[lurker]

It's absolutely ripping through schools at the moment.

Of course they spread it. Just like they spread other illnesses. Its lunacy to suggest otherwise.

Yup. Another armchair expert theory debunked

 

[look out piano]

It's absolutely ripping through schools at the moment.

Of course they spread it. Just like they spread other illnesses. Its lunacy to suggest otherwise.

I'm hoping the bairn can get through the last 2 weeks of term without catching it again (last had it back in late Jan early Feb), I have managed to dodge it so far.

 

[dangermows]

I'm hoping the bairn can get through the last 2 weeks of term without catching it again (last had it back in late Jan early Feb), I have managed to dodge it so far.

Good luck. The missus has just tested positive. Rest of the house still negative but just a matter of time (thought it'd already landed but seems its just a heavy cold, or the test is duff).