Changing prisons the way to stop re offending

Titus

Striker
Losing their freedom, being under constant threat of attack, being locked up most of the time is quite a punishment. It isn't "easy" in prison despite what the press say.
Depends really. We get plenty of young offenders and adults who do small sentences and then get placement at one of the places I work. For some of them it's like a holiday camp and does little to deter.
 

Redandwhitedust

Central Defender
This for me, prison serves 3 purposes, punishment, protecting the public and rehabilitation.....
I'd add that there's a fourth element as well. Deterrent.
Its maybe not as pronounced as the other 3, but the thought of being locked up is a deterrent. A suspended sentance or community order less so.
Its hard to deny the statistics from the Norwegian model for stopping re-offending. But I do wonder if a "softer" prison, would lose some of the deterrent value?
 

PTR

Striker
I'd add that there's a fourth element as well. Deterrent.
Its maybe not as pronounced as the other 3, but the thought of being locked up is a deterrent. A suspended sentance or community order less so.
Its hard to deny the statistics from the Norwegian model for stopping re-offending. But I do wonder if a "softer" prison, would lose some of the deterrent value?
That's why someone earlier mentioned a mixed approach - Punishment, Public Safety and deterrent on one hand, then into rehabilitation for the 2nd part of the term (which is usually dropped for good behaviour etc anyway).

That way, they'd be under the system for twice as long, but with far more chance of them not simply coming back in the next year or 2.
 
Imagine this ever getting past the gammons in this country. Even if the evidence is clear that spending the money to improve conditions, educate and properly rehabilitate inmates will have a massive impact on crime and improve all our lives, the British public simply wouldn't accept inmates being treated like human beings.

How Norway turns criminals into good neighbours
I’d rather turn them into fertiliser and spend 98 grand a year on people who are not complete shithouses.
 
I’d rather turn them into fertiliser and spend 98 grand a year on people who are not complete shithouses.
You want to kill people for things like not paying their council tax? Bit extreme but definitely proves the rabid gammon point.

I'd add that there's a fourth element as well. Deterrent.
Its maybe not as pronounced as the other 3, but the thought of being locked up is a deterrent. A suspended sentance or community order less so.
Its hard to deny the statistics from the Norwegian model for stopping re-offending. But I do wonder if a "softer" prison, would lose some of the deterrent value?
Doubt it, the thing that scares me about prison is being locked up with other criminals and not being able to see my family and kids when I want. Losing your liberty and being locked up is a massive punishment to the vast majority of people....Those who it would not deterred are not deterred with our current system either and in reality are more likely to keep going back time and time again under our system.
 
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PTR

Striker
I’d rather turn them into fertiliser and spend 98 grand a year on people who are not complete shithouses.
Thing is, we are spending £45k/yr on them now, and paying it mulitple times because they keep coming back.

The question to ask isn't how much will it cost "this time", its how much can we limit the cost to altogether.
 

yorkyexile

Striker
Imagine this ever getting past the gammons in this country. Even if the evidence is clear that spending the money to improve conditions, educate and properly rehabilitate inmates will have a massive impact on crime and improve all our lives, the British public simply wouldn't accept inmates being treated like human beings.

How Norway turns criminals into good neighbours
And the blinkered lefties won`t accept that like it or lump it some criminals don`t want rehabilitation.
 
That's why someone earlier mentioned a mixed approach - Punishment, Public Safety and deterrent on one hand, then into rehabilitation for the 2nd part of the term (which is usually dropped for good behaviour etc anyway).

That way, they'd be under the system for twice as long, but with far more chance of them not simply coming back in the next year or 2.
No such thing as good behaviour, all sentences apart from IPP, have a tariff, and half is served locked up, the second half on license.
 
When you reduce reoffending rates , you end up with a smaller prison population So it actually pays for itself plus all the other benefits.
I know, not against reform. I just don't think now is the time for it. It's the optics of it mate. Your bins are getting collected once a fortnight and my car is fucked because of potholes but we can afford to pay for Dave the nonce's yoga class.

I also agree with @Andy_Roker1983 about this not resolving issues in the communities.
 
Thing is, can you justify getting Yoga instructors in for prisoners when your granny can't get a carer in from social services?

"Tranquillity does not come cheaply. A place at Halden Prison costs about £98,000 per year. The average annual cost of a prison place in England in Wales is now about £40,000, or £59,000 in a Category A prison."

Even as a left wing loon that understands the benefits of this I can't help but think that money could be better serves elsewhere.
I'm not gonna do the adding up as it seems like it might be hard but you wouldn't need your re-offender to commit many crimes to make up that £50k a year in damage, policing, court time, etc for it to break-even and thats before you start to factor in quality of life and economic advantages to a happier general population amongst notional victims.
 
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SAFCOldie

Striker
You want to kill people for things like not paying their council tax? Bit extreme but definitely proves the rabid gammon point.



Doubt it, the thing that scares me about prison is being locked up with other criminals and not being able to see my family and kids when I want. Losing your liberty and being locked up is a massive punishment to the vast majority of people....Those who it would not deterred are not deterred with our current system either and in reality are more likely to keep going back time and time again under our system.
You've changed your tune :) There was a time you were happy for folk to go to jail for contempt of court and be put in solitary confinement in max security prisons for weeks :)
 
I'm not gonna do the adding up as it seems like it might be hard but you wouldn't need your re-offender to commit many crimes to make up that £50k a year in damage, policing, court time, etc for it to break-even and thats before you start to factor in quality of life and economic advantages to a happier general population amongst notional victims.
You wouldn't. There are simply more palatable things to spend our money on than pottery classes for Rapey Rob.

We've spent a decade fucking over the poorest and most vulnerable in society, until we turn the tide on that we shouldn't be reforming prisons this way. I do not believe we have the societal foundations in place to make it as effective as it would need to be.
 

Mainze

Striker
How’s Anders Breiviks rehabilitation going?

Will be be out soon and allowed to continue his crusade to re-educate the left wing?
 
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PTR

Striker
I know, not against reform. I just don't think now is the time for it. It's the optics of it mate. Your bins are getting collected once a fortnight and my car is fucked because of potholes but we can afford to pay for Dave the nonce's yoga class.

I also agree with @Andy_Roker1983 about this not resolving issues in the communities.
Saving money helps everyone

Less crime helps everyone

More educated work force helps everyone

What's the downside ?
 

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