CDDFT

parm said:
let me ask a question here and see if i survive another ban - what is it about this vaccine and its possible side effects that means between 80/100k NHS staff , many of who have trained for years and are on good salaries are prepared to lose their jobs and liveliehoods ? , everybody on here knows if they are being honest with themselves working class people with families do not take such actions lightly
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Your numbers are inflated a little. It's actually around 50,000 when you take into account those who are exempt for medical reasons. It's also less likely to be doctors and senior nurses who are unvaccinated, since people on higher incomes and in the higher professions have a higher vaccine coverage rate.

For some people it will be side effects. For others it'll be resistance to being forced. Some will be genuine anti-vaxxers. Some will be worried because of the misinformation being thrown about. Some will think it is unnecessary due to antibodies.

Each of those groups have different needs and the government will have to take different approaches. Most will come round, except the anti-vaxxers who are probably lost and will leave the service now.
 


rudd said:
First the figure is about half that.
Where does the assumption you make that it's about side effects come from? Healthcare professionals have the highest uptake amongst all professions in the UK, what does that tell you about the safety of the vaccine?

Coronavirus and vaccination rates in people aged 18 years and over by socio-demographic characteristic and occupation, England - Office for National Statistics

Coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccination rates among people aged 18 years and older who live in England, including estimates by socio-demographic characteristic.
www.ons.gov.uk

Breaking down the available numbers of NHS staff shows that those with professional registrations are more likely to take up the vaccine than those in non professional role, what do you take from that?

The latest figures I see are that the numbers are largely in unqualified staff who have nothing but core NHS training; moving and handling, fire, information governance, safeguarding etc, not immunology etc. It's well known those with less education are less likely to take up the vaccine and that's also shown in the link above.

If you've ever sat in a consultants meeting you'll see how much some medics absolutely detest being told what to do and I've no doubt some medics are taking this stand, unfortunately, but that's just my opinion from what I've seen in my years working in the NHS.

There are some points that were hinted at in the video with Sunak and the anaesthetist that I do think should be investigated further. Like the persistent exposure to Covid in those on the front line and long term high antibody counts. Maybe that's a reason?

I'm vaccinated and boostered, I'm against mandatory vaccines for those already employed but to take the jump and say it's about vaccine side effects probably says more about your views. It's a big jump to make when there's clear data that those most informed/educated/experienced are the highest uptakers.
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Javid not Sunak!
 
we now have a situation where unvaxxed nurses are being asked to cover shifts of trible jabbed colleagues who are off isolating or sick , knowing they will be soon out of work - truly sickening
 
parm said:
we now have a situation where unvaxxed nurses are being asked to cover shifts of trible jabbed colleagues who are off isolating or sick , knowing they will be soon out of work - truly sickening
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Another tactic employed by people such as yourself - pivoting to another issue without addressing everything people have called you out on with your last attempt.

Those unvaccinated nurses are still under contract and should still do their jobs, no? That’s like saying once you had your notice in, you can fuck off :lol:
 
Frijj said:
Your numbers are inflated a little. It's actually around 50,000 when you take into account those who are exempt for medical reasons. It's also less likely to be doctors and senior nurses who are unvaccinated, since people on higher incomes and in the higher professions have a higher vaccine coverage rate.

For some people it will be side effects. For others it'll be resistance to being forced. Some will be genuine anti-vaxxers. Some will be worried because of the misinformation being thrown about. Some will think it is unnecessary due to antibodies.

Each of those groups have different needs and the government will have to take different approaches. Most will come round, except the anti-vaxxers who are probably lost and will leave the service now.
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The NHS employs 1.7 million people. It has a vaccination rate of about 90%. I'll leave you to do the maths.
 
El Matador said:
The NHS employs 1.7 million people. It has a vaccination rate of about 90%. I'll leave you to do the maths.
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Okay, but you've made two mistakes there.

1. You haven't accounted for the fact that, in the context of people losing their jobs due to being unvaccinated, we have to exclude the non-clinical and non-frontline workers, from both the numerator and the denominator.

2. You have also not accounted for the fact that we have to exclude people who are medically exempt.

NHS Digital give the denominator for healthcare workers to be approximately 1,497,000. They give the denominator for 'frontline' healthcare workers to be 1,271,000.

Unfortunately they do not give a numerator for vaccines given to frontline workers, only to healthcare workers.
 
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parm said:
we now have a situation where unvaxxed nurses are being asked to cover shifts of trible jabbed colleagues who are off isolating or sick , knowing they will be soon out of work - truly sickening
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It was a reasonable question that you asked and the replies have also been reasonable but you've then veered off into an emotive scenario that has no real link to question. These situations will occur and I'm not sure why you see it as sickening. Whatever we think of mandatory vaccines, a choice is being made but while those people are still employed then why treat them differently.

This is obviously why you get banned although, in this case, I don't think any action is required.
 
Frijj said:
Okay, but you've made two mistakes there.

1. You haven't accounted for the fact that, in the context of people losing their jobs due to being unvaccinated, we have to exclude the non-clinical and non-frontline workers, from both the numerator and the denominator.

2. You have also not accounted for the fact that we have to exclude people who are medically exempt.

NHS Digital give the denominator for healthcare workers to be approximately 1,497,000. They give the denominator for 'frontline' healthcare workers to be 1,271,000.

Unfortunately they do not give a numerator for vaccines given to frontline workers, only to healthcare workers.
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Are non frontline workers being exempted from the mandatory vaccination ? If they are sacked for non compliance will this have an affect on service provision ?

Any idea of the numbers of people medically exempt ?

pavarotti1980 said:
Latest NHS Workforce Statistics (Sep 2021)

Headcount 1,355,780
FTE 1,205,362

It appears you better try your maths again. I will leave you to it
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Even given the above figures as true i'd suggest that the NHS will be greatly affected if 5% to 10% of the workforce is sacked.
 
El Matador said:
Are non frontline workers being exempted from the mandatory vaccination ? If they are sacked for non compliance will this have an affect on service provision ?

Any idea of the numbers of people medically exempt ?


Even given the above figures as true i'd suggest that the NHS will be greatly affected if 5% to 10% of the workforce is sacked.
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The only people who have to be vaccinated are 'patient-facing' staff. This is an ambiguous term. If sacked, I'm sure that would impact service provision but under the current rules you wouldn't sack an admin person who works in an office and doesn't see patients, but you would sack a nurse who works with patients.

The numbers of people medically exempt, according to Channel 4 News Fact Check, stands at around 35% of the unvaccinated estimate of around 80,000, leaving approximately 50,000 unvaccinated, non-exempt, patient facing staff.

That equates to approximately 3.9% of the entire workforce.
 
El Matador said:
Are non frontline workers being exempted from the mandatory vaccination ? If they are sacked for non compliance will this have an affect on service provision ?

Any idea of the numbers of people medically exempt ?


Even given the above figures as true i'd suggest that the NHS will be greatly affected if 5% to 10% of the workforce is sacked.
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5-10% is a canny range. Why would you disbelieve the figures BTW? It is from all NHS employers in England's data submissions, which will be driven by HR/payroll systems
Frijj said:
The only people who have to be vaccinated are 'patient-facing' staff. This is an ambiguous term. If sacked, I'm sure that would impact service provision but under the current rules you wouldn't sack an admin person who works in an office and doesn't see patients, but you would sack a nurse who works with patients.

The numbers of people medically exempt, according to Channel 4 News Fact Check, stands at around 35% of the unvaccinated estimate of around 80,000, leaving approximately 50,000 unvaccinated, non-exempt, patient facing staff.

That equates to approximately 3.9% of the entire workforce.
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Just seen something for our trust. They are defining people as "patient-facing" based on it being a CQC-regulated activity. Anyone affected who will not be vaccinated will be offered redeployment, which indicates that the vast majority are not in professionally registered roles and could be moved easily.
 
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zwartekat said:
I don't think anyone would believe otherwise. I would assume there is some contingency plan ready.
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The NHS is a reactive service at best. For the Trust I work for, even the most simplistic job takes an age with everyone involved in the process dragging their feet. I'm not convinced my Trust has any plans in place to manage the shortage. They'll likely manage it the same way they manage everything else, half arsed.
 
i think we need to know if all MP`s have been double / tripled jabbed - they are rammed in that chamber like sardines and the unjabbed will be putting the others at risk
 
parm said:
i cant go too far , im now on a hit list and will be terminated for the slightest infraction
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I know I've already said similar to this but you're like a textbook conspiracy theorist.
Deflect.
No detail.
No evidence.
Schizotypal traits - especially being under threat if you speak "the truth'.
 

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