Can we put the pitch-forks away now?


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My sense is the football club is something separate from the Business and the Club belongs to the supporters and if the Business folded, the Club would go on in one form or another. Most criticism, or what you call hate is directed at the Business and its not your child, or, does it help when so many people self identify with the Business and has led many supporters to take any criticism of the club personally and its that, which has given the ownership such an easy ride.

So its toxic because we have a division in the fans, with around maybe a third who support the Club and hate the Business. With two thirds of fans on here who see the club and business as the same and are incapable of critical thinking or rational thought and why you see so much wishful thinking.

I try to be honest and used to visit the site once in a blue moon. After the playoffs, I was foaming and watched the fury of fans after the playoff defeat get steered by a clique of fans to backing the Business that masquerades itself as Sunderland AFC and joined the site as I've stopped attending the game to try and chuck in a few honest and semi-objective observations.
I’m interested to learn where in your ‘honest and semi-objective’ opinion the line is drawn behind the club and the business; are the players part of the club or the business? what about the youth team?Coaching staff? Manager? The medical staff? The scouting team? Director of football?

Who is ‘us’ and who is ‘them’? Clearly as I’m am ‘incapable of critical thinking or rational thought’ I could do with some training off an honest and semi-objective poster like you 🙄
 
I get what you are saying about not caring about who owns the club, but unfortunately it has a massive bearing on what happens with the team, that’s the truth.
Just look at what has happened since ES said I am not putting anymore money in, a mess ever since.
Yup I appreciate that and I know it’s important to have a good responsible owner.

I just mean as a fan I can’t impact that. All I can do is buy my season ticket,
buy a pint and should like a mad man for my team.
 
Do you honestly expect me to sit down and give a list of all of our transfer dealings under his stewardship?

No.

You’ve said he’s got more decisions right than wrong.
I want to know how you’ve come to that conclusion.

It’s a bizarre OP, mainly attacking our fans. You’re saying things aren’t great but you’re also saying no one should be to blame. Just because things have changed and we don’t have the same personal as when we were initially relegated doesn’t mean things haven’t been done incorrect and that people aren’t to blame.

Since KLD came in I’ve seen very few positives to be honest.
 
No.

You’ve said he’s got more decisions right than wrong.
I want to know how you’ve come to that conclusion.

It’s a bizarre OP, mainly attacking our fans. You’re saying things aren’t great but you’re also saying no one should be to blame. Just because things have changed and we don’t have the same personal as when we were initially relegated doesn’t mean things haven’t been done incorrect and that people aren’t to blame.

Since KLD came in I’ve seen very few positives to be honest.
Actually I’ve said no one person is to blame. It’s like pin the tail on the donkey on here at times.

“GET RID OF FLANAGAN, HES AT FAULT FOR EVERYTHING!!!! 😤

Okay he’s gone, happy?

“NO, WERE STILL LOSONG! SACK THE MANAGER! 😡

Okay he’s sacked now what?

“WELL IF IT WASNT THE PLAYERS OR THE MANAGER IT MUST BE THE DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL! IM GOT GOING BACK UNTIL HES BEEN SACKED!”

🙄

If you want to list all the decisions he’s got wrong I’ll come up with a list after work of more decisions he’s got right, how’s that for a deal? 😉
 
Not until KLD comes clean what are Madrox connections and when will he buy them out and have outright control
What if he doesn't want to, and makes his own decisions and doesn't pander to some noisy subset of fans who got all upset when Charlie called them names.
Actually I’ve said no one person is to blame. It’s like pin the tail on the donkey on here at times.

“GET RID OF FLANAGAN, HES AT FAULT FOR EVERYTHING!!!! 😤

Okay he’s gone, happy?

“NO, WERE STILL LOSONG! SACK THE MANAGER! 😡

Okay he’s sacked now what?

“WELL IF IT WASNT THE PLAYERS OR THE MANAGER IT MUST BE THE DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL! IM GOT GOING BACK UNTIL HES BEEN SACKED!”

🙄

If you want to list all the decisions he’s got wrong I’ll come up with a list after work of more decisions he’s got right, how’s that for a deal? 😉
This ^^^

There's a growing section of fans who cannot accept that football is a game where you don't always win. When we don't win, it's becoming like a game of who's to blame now.
 
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This place has been a pure lynch-mob for weeks now, it’s horrible to read and enough is enough already.

The way everyone has turned on Speakman and KLD so quickly is crazy.

Speakman is human, humans make mistakes. Much in the same way Jermaine Defoe won’t score with every shot he takes, Speakman won’t get every move he makes right either.

Overall I’d say he’s done a good job here. Under his stewardship we have swapped McFadzeon for Cirkin, Pritchard for Maguire, Stewart for Wyke, we got a replacement for Burge which I didn’t personally think was necessary but each to their own, the new signing Clark looks class and Matete looks decent. In fact almost every player we have signed seems to be an improvement on the player they have replaced. The club seems to have a structure now with a good scouting networks, and on the whole the football has been a lot more enjoyable to watch than under Jurassic Parkinson and Jack Ross.

Alright he’s fucked up letting too many defenders go at once, and something has definitely happened behind the scenes with Lee Johnson being sacked. But be honest now, were any of you that are calling for Speakman head now, not calling for Johnson’s head before he was sacked?

I kind of understood it when peoples knives were out for Stewart, but wanting KLD and Speakman out baffles me.

I just think we need to move away from the toxic atmosphere and try to support our team. Mistakes have happened, that’s life, dust yourself off and go again.

Anyway, come at me bed-wetters :lol:

Some people want to micro-manage the club, to such a degree, it's overtaken their tendency to support.

There's a general disconnect between clubs and their supporters.

Even Man City fans know it's all really fake.

Yes we were naive, before the Internet age, but it was all a lot more fun.
 
We are struggling in the 3rd tier, someone is to blame and I think the players have disproportionately especially the young ones have attracted too much flak at the expense of
Johnson, KS & co who have been found out but as per Dennis Skinner used to say "When posh boys are in trouble, they sack the servants" and Johnson was sacrificed.
If we don't get promotion I can't see it ending in anything other than blood and snot.

In fairness to Johnson he was doing the best with the players he had available. The amount of injuries we've had has been ridiculous, it's also concerning that we've been operating with one available striker for much of the season, no wonder Stewart is looking spent.

I think despite the drubbings, Johnson was given a hard time, I'll be surprised if Neil is much of an improvement, I hope I'm wrong.
 
No.

You’ve said he’s got more decisions right than wrong.
I want to know how you’ve come to that conclusion.

It’s a bizarre OP, mainly attacking our fans. You’re saying things aren’t great but you’re also saying no one should be to blame. Just because things have changed and we don’t have the same personal as when we were initially relegated doesn’t mean things haven’t been done incorrect and that people aren’t to blame.

Since KLD came in I’ve seen very few positives to be honest.
Well, why don't you put your hand in your pocket and buy the club, if you cannot afford it, get a few thousand fans arranged to form a consortium, put your money where your mouth is and see if you can do better?

1,200 fans at £25k each should do it.
 
Some people want to micro-manage the club, to such a degree, it's overtaken their tendency to support.

There's a general disconnect between clubs and their supporters.

Even Man City fans know it's all really fake.

Yes we were naive, before the Internet age, but it was all a lot more fun.

But the game was far simpler. You didn't tend to have 5 plus owners, you didn't have directors of football and as many specialist roles as we see now. Formations and tactics were basic and therefore not scrutinised as much I'll bet.

It didn't mean that those in charge weren't held to account for poor performances and results. The discontent was merely aimed elsewhere. Why shouldn't fans be questioning people like Speakman if we're getting beat off clubs like Doncaster and Cheltenham? Smashed by Bolton? He's the one that's at the forefront of our playing philosophy and apparently involved in all decisions such as player recruitment. They're happy to take the accolades when doing well.

Fans are concerned, and rightly so.
 
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Well, why don't you put your hand in your pocket and buy the club, if you cannot afford it, get a few thousand fans arranged to form a consortium, put your money where your mouth is and see if you can do better?

1,200 fans at £25k each should do it.

:lol:

So because I think things aren’t going well, I can’t have a view on it? I must say everything is correct and if not I have to buy it myself?

Things have been done wrong and poorly. Should we all just shrug our shoulders and let them crack on regardless how bad it gets? What does people on here having a view impact in any way?
Actually I’ve said no one person is to blame. It’s like pin the tail on the donkey on here at times.

“GET RID OF FLANAGAN, HES AT FAULT FOR EVERYTHING!!!! 😤

Okay he’s gone, happy?

“NO, WERE STILL LOSONG! SACK THE MANAGER! 😡

Okay he’s sacked now what?

“WELL IF IT WASNT THE PLAYERS OR THE MANAGER IT MUST BE THE DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL! IM GOT GOING BACK UNTIL HES BEEN SACKED!”

🙄

If you want to list all the decisions he’s got wrong I’ll come up with a list after work of more decisions he’s got right, how’s that for a deal? 😉

The premise of your OP is that because no one should be to blame, that the fans who are critical of the club are in the wrong and we should accept any shite thrown our way?

If multiple bad decisions are made, inclusive of playing staff or management then people again will air those views.

In general we’ve replaced players with worse.

Wyke and Power whilst not being the best were let go and haven’t been adequately replaced. We’re still reliant on Stewart to score all our goals and have only recruited Defoe who’s amassed 9 minutes for Rangers this season. We signed Danny Bath who can’t trap a bag of cement despite us wanting to play out from the back. We have signed far too many loan players, which means another rebuild in the summer should they not join permanently. We sacked the head coach without a replacement lined up, and lost vital points.

The size of our club means we should demand to be the best in this division. Accepting mediocre from those at the top is tragic.
 
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This place has been a pure lynch-mob for weeks now, it’s horrible to read and enough is enough already.

The way everyone has turned on Speakman and KLD so quickly is crazy.

Speakman is human, humans make mistakes. Much in the same way Jermaine Defoe won’t score with every shot he takes, Speakman won’t get every move he makes right either.

Overall I’d say he’s done a good job here. Under his stewardship we have swapped McFadzeon for Cirkin, Pritchard for Maguire, Stewart for Wyke, we got a replacement for Burge which I didn’t personally think was necessary but each to their own, the new signing Clark looks class and Matete looks decent. In fact almost every player we have signed seems to be an improvement on the player they have replaced. The club seems to have a structure now with a good scouting networks, and on the whole the football has been a lot more enjoyable to watch than under Jurassic Parkinson and Jack Ross.

Alright he’s fucked up letting too many defenders go at once, and something has definitely happened behind the scenes with Lee Johnson being sacked. But be honest now, were any of you that are calling for Speakman head now, not calling for Johnson’s head before he was sacked?

I kind of understood it when peoples knives were out for Stewart, but wanting KLD and Speakman out baffles me.

I just think we need to move away from the toxic atmosphere and try to support our team. Mistakes have happened, that’s life, dust yourself off and go again.

Anyway, come at me bed-wetters :lol:

It seems that there needs to be something to moan about whatever. I know this is just a message board but if people keep moaning about everything and wanting changes constantly how can the club grow and move forward. I'm not a fan of Speakman but let's just get behind the team in this run in and see what happens.

All the moaners will be clamouring for play off final tickets when it comes around ;)
 
Nothing personal against Speakman and/or KLD but if they can't get this club out of the third tier after more than a year in charge then they need to leave, nice humans or not.
 
It seems that there needs to be something to moan about whatever. I know this is just a message board but if people keep moaning about everything and wanting changes constantly how can the club grow and move forward. I'm not a fan of Speakman but let's just get behind the team in this run in and see what happens.

All the moaners will be clamouring for play off final tickets when it comes around ;)

People call out when things are blatantly not right. Being left with a couple of fit centre half’s after selling one who’s played the majority of games this season isn’t right.

Having one fit striker with a 39 year old as back up isn’t right.

Sacking a head coach and waiting 2 weeks to appoint the next one isn’t right.

People who moan still love the club and go to matches you know. People are allowed to have an opinion, aren’t they?
 
:lol:

So because I think things aren’t going well, I can’t have a view on it? I must say everything is correct and if not I have to buy it myself?

Things have been done wrong and poorly. Should we all just shrug our shoulders and let them crack on regardless how bad it gets? What does people on here having a view impact in any way?
It's just negativity, it doesn't help. If you want to make things better, do something to make things better.
 
I’m interested to learn where in your ‘honest and semi-objective’ opinion the line is drawn behind the club and the business; are the players part of the club or the business? what about the youth team?Coaching staff? Manager? The medical staff? The scouting team? Director of football?

Who is ‘us’ and who is ‘them’? Clearly as I’m am ‘incapable of critical thinking or rational thought’ I could do with some training off an honest and semi-objective poster like you 🙄
I can remember Cowie and the gap between the Club and Business, was the same chasm then and it is now. Some people argued the toss back in the day that we should trust Cowie, but they're grew to be a marginal element and it was only after Murray took over, did the club and business start a long process of healing. The lesson learned from history has always been bad ownership, almost always delivers a bad harvest for any club that doesn't have the resources to buy success.

My point is the toxicity you are obsessed about can not be found in the 'bed-wetters' and you could take 10,000 off the gate and delete 250 accounts from this site and clap even harder and it won't make a blind bit of difference. The club will outlast all of us and the Business will change as it always does.
 
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