Can we put the pitch-forks away now?


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Although it is "never the fans fault", there is one lesson we can learn here.

In previous visits to Wembley, we partied in Trafalgar Square the night before, and were largely muted with bad heads on the day.

If we get to Wembley, could we ease off the night before, give it the full-throated support on the day, and paint Trafalgar Square red and white after we've won ?

The playoff final is on Saturday 21 May this year, which makes it more difficult to have a Trafalgar Square style pre-match party.

 
Still sharpening mine.
Covid helped assist me in giving up attending the SOL in early 2020 and I abandoned the Owners ever since Keane left the club but never complained.
My pitchfork wasn't delivered to my home until that playoff debacle last season and I joined the site explicitly to slag off Johnson and the ownership in the summer, having avoided it for years.
I have actually been making the same point since the summer about the squad balance, but not many listened to me then. So I agree that it’s incredibly frustrating.

However, I look at your first sentence and I can’t help but feel the likes of MK Dons, Wycombe and Plymouth will be licking their lips at such a prospect. The fans have made their point this month, it sounds as if the board are listening and I think it’s critical we reserve judgement for now, and give Alex Neil our full support. We can revisit in the summer if progress hasn’t been made.
I tried to make the same arguments in the summer, but grumpy old man/rowell cummings and a host of other posters only saw the challenge to their cosy narrative, as something existential and now the Keane debacle has calmed down they're are back on point demanding everyone fall into column behind them and the Club and insulate the ownership from the fans real feelings.
 
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Here’s the thing.

I don’t care who “owns the club”

It’s ours not theirs.

What I care about is being in the third division

I would prefer whoever owns the club to do something about this or just leave.
 
Here’s the thing.

I don’t care who “owns the club”

It’s ours not theirs.

What I care about is being in the third division

I would prefer whoever owns the club to do something about this or just leave.

Exactly this, however it’s important we realise that it won’t happen over night either.
 
No, until we look like getting promotion the pitchforks will be out for everyone and understandably so.
I guess the logical question to ask is if as you say we have replaced half the squad with better why are we in a worse position than last season?
Football isn’t an individual game and we have a horrendously unbalanced squad in lots of different ways that’s on the sporting director seemingly.
He is looking at resale value.
 
What an absolute bullshit response. From this response alone you’ve made it clear, you have no basis for your “arguments” and simply wanted to go on the wind up, or bury your head in the sand and be an Uber fan for likes.

You’ve picked up on 2 half points made. Did I say he should have been sacked? Nope, however the point was if a business had there worst performing day in there history, there’d rightly be huge questions and heads could role.

It was a huge contributing factor to us sacking Johnson. So that shows the magnitude of it. FACT. Are you telling me after a performance like that and a season like this his boss doesn’t also need to be questioned? Bullshit of course he does.

None of what I said is conjecture, again it’s fact. Where is the leadership from the data that allows us to see out games when it gets tough, where is the heart and leadership when we are losing games 6-0, 5-1, 4-0 etc.

For what we may have gained in technical ability and overall performance on the pitch, we’ve lost that fight and have a squad that is short in numbers in key areas. We lack so much that’s needed in this league.

If we put last seasons team against the team that played Bolton, I honestly don’t know who would win. Granted our current squad is better technically and on paper, but does it have the mental capacity and nous in this league. The way Chris Macguire tore through, for me showed it doesn’t and I wouldn’t be confident.


Absolutely 100% bang on. As a club we should be competing for autos. The fans turn up in numbers and don’t expect to be pissing the league, it’s an absolute myth.

However being embarrassed as much as we have this year, not knowing who owns what in the club, and spending 5 years in league one, while not looking likely for promotion. Is 100% cause for questions.

If you check my op you’ll see that I was complaining about how toxic it has been on here and how lots of posters are trying to scapegoat Speakman (and practically anyone else) and asking for him/them to be sacked, when until 2 weeks ago everyone thought he was doing a good job.

The constant need to hate someone and demand their sacking is unnecessary.

If you’re not asking for him to be sacked then you’re arguing against points I’m not making.

You’re saying “if you’re saying…” then arguing against a point I haven’t made. The point I’ve made is that we should stop constantly looking for a hate figure and asking for someone to be sacked and get behind the team.
 
Speakman is juggling two plans, the long term plan and the short term plan.

On the surface he has made a few mistakes which have disrupted the short term plan, while the long term plan looks to be progressing well.

However, his problem is going to be that a failure of the short term plan (I.e. no promotion) is potentially going to mess up the long term plan as some of our better players may want to move on.
 
Yes- let’s ban free-speech and say only happy things! I don’t want to hear anyone so much as sigh if we go behind again this season. We must accept everything the club serves up for our own good; we are the luckiest fans alive.
There’s a large disparity behind only saying happy things, and constantly demanding somebody is sacked. How many posts have you seen in the last couple of weeks to the effect of “that’s is, so long as KLD and Speakman are at this club I’m not attending another game”
Until a couple of weeks ago it was largely considered that they were doing a good job.
 
This place has been a pure lynch-mob for weeks now, it’s horrible to read and enough is enough already.

The way everyone has turned on Speakman and KLD so quickly is crazy.

Speakman is human, humans make mistakes. Much in the same way Jermaine Defoe won’t score with every shot he takes, Speakman won’t get every move he makes right either.

Overall I’d say he’s done a good job here. Under his stewardship we have swapped McFadzeon for Cirkin, Pritchard for Maguire, Stewart for Wyke, we got a replacement for Burge which I didn’t personally think was necessary but each to their own, the new signing Clark looks class and Matete looks decent. In fact almost every player we have signed seems to be an improvement on the player they have replaced. The club seems to have a structure now with a good scouting networks, and on the whole the football has been a lot more enjoyable to watch than under Jurassic Parkinson and Jack Ross.

Alright he’s fucked up letting too many defenders go at once, and something has definitely happened behind the scenes with Lee Johnson being sacked. But be honest now, were any of you that are calling for Speakman head now, not calling for Johnson’s head before he was sacked?

I kind of understood it when peoples knives were out for Stewart, but wanting KLD and Speakman out baffles me.

I just think we need to move away from the toxic atmosphere and try to support our team. Mistakes have happened, that’s life, dust yourself off and go again.

Anyway, come at me bed-wetters :lol:
Everyone makes mistakes. Done a lot of good. Let's back the team, nothing stopping promotion. Neil has enough time to get the squad in shape ahead of the playoffs which I'm sure we'll make
 
I have actually been making the same point since the summer about the squad balance, but not many listened to me then. So I agree that it’s incredibly frustrating.

However, I look at your first sentence and I can’t help but feel the likes of MK Dons, Wycombe and Plymouth will be licking their lips at such a prospect. The fans have made their point this month, it sounds as if the board are listening and I think it’s critical we reserve judgement for now, and give Alex Neil our full support. We can revisit in the summer if progress hasn’t been made.
I kind of agree tbh but it’s not going to happen and it’s quite clear why. You can’t expect to have the benefits of being the biggest club in the league without accepting there are some potential drawbacks.
The other problem is that there never really seems to be a point of accountability. In the summer if we don’t go up it will be Neil only had a few months, he needs to be given time. All valid points but when is that not good enough? 5 seasons? 10 seasons?
He is looking at resale value.
Maybe but that in itself raises questions given other stories about the Bellingham transfer.
Also has he actually been any good at it? Who would we be able to sell at a profit now? I’d guess Stewart and that’s about it, even then it’s widely reported he (and Pritchard) were Johnson signings.
 
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Covid helped assist me in giving up attending the SOL in early 2020 and I abandoned the Owners ever since Keane left the club but never complained.
My pitchfork wasn't delivered to my home until that playoff debacle last season and I joined the site explicitly to slag off Johnson and the ownership in the summer, having avoided it for years.

I tried to make the same arguments in the summer, but grumpy old man/rowell cummings and a host of other posters only saw the challenge to their cosy narrative, as something existential and now the Keane debacle has calmed down they're are back on point demanding everyone fall into column behind them and the Club and insulate the ownership from the fans real feelings.
:lol: :lol:
 
If you check my op you’ll see that I was complaining about how toxic it has been on here and how lots of posters are trying to scapegoat Speakman (and practically anyone else) and asking for him/them to be sacked, when until 2 weeks ago everyone thought he was doing a good job.

The constant need to hate someone and demand their sacking is unnecessary.

If you’re not asking for him to be sacked then you’re arguing against points I’m not making.

You’re saying “if you’re saying…” then arguing against a point I haven’t made. The point I’ve made is that we should stop constantly looking for a hate figure and asking for someone to be sacked and get behind the team.
My sense is the football club is something separate from the Business and the Club belongs to the supporters and if the Business folded, the Club would go on in one form or another. Most criticism, or what you call hate is directed at the Business and its not your child, or, does it help when so many people self identify with the Business and has led many supporters to take any criticism of the club personally and its that, which has given the ownership such an easy ride.

So its toxic because we have a division in the fans, with around maybe a third who support the Club and hate the Business. With two thirds of fans on here who see the club and business as the same and are incapable of critical thinking or rational thought and why you see so much wishful thinking.
I try to be honest and used to visit the site once in a blue moon. After the playoffs, I was foaming and watched the fury of fans after the playoff defeat get steered by a clique of fans to backing the Business that masquerades itself as Sunderland AFC and joined the site as I've stopped attending the game to try and chuck in a few honest and semi-objective observations.
 
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At this point in time, I still see no pitchforks, no organised protest or anything else.
The vast majority of Sunderland supporters do not post on here, this place is not representative of the supporter base. None of them are happy we are in L1 but they have a bit of perspective. They don’t need to show how outraged they are by calling SAFC staff “dogshit” etc on here.
It’s maybe a way of letting off steam instead of smashing telephone boxes?
 
This place has been a pure lynch-mob for weeks now, it’s horrible to read and enough is enough already.

The way everyone has turned on Speakman and KLD so quickly is crazy.

Speakman is human, humans make mistakes. Much in the same way Jermaine Defoe won’t score with every shot he takes, Speakman won’t get every move he makes right either.

Overall I’d say he’s done a good job here. Under his stewardship we have swapped McFadzeon for Cirkin, Pritchard for Maguire, Stewart for Wyke, we got a replacement for Burge which I didn’t personally think was necessary but each to their own, the new signing Clark looks class and Matete looks decent. In fact almost every player we have signed seems to be an improvement on the player they have replaced. The club seems to have a structure now with a good scouting networks, and on the whole the football has been a lot more enjoyable to watch than under Jurassic Parkinson and Jack Ross.

Alright he’s fucked up letting too many defenders go at once, and something has definitely happened behind the scenes with Lee Johnson being sacked. But be honest now, were any of you that are calling for Speakman head now, not calling for Johnson’s head before he was sacked?

I kind of understood it when peoples knives were out for Stewart, but wanting KLD and Speakman out baffles me.

I just think we need to move away from the toxic atmosphere and try to support our team. Mistakes have happened, that’s life, dust yourself off and go again.

Anyway, come at me bed-wetters :lol:
No, Speakman has had a mare and just recently, really let the club down.

He should have appointed a manager within a couple of days of sacking David Brent. It cost us 6 points, 8 if you count the fact AN was only in position the day before our last game.

He has burnt a few bridges and need to rebuild the trust of a lot of fans.

Until then my pitchfork is at my side.
 
Absolute horseshit 💩
We've never been top and winning every week since we've been in this league (4seasons)
There's hardly been a pitchfork in sight.
What there has been is record attendances and incredible backing for a club that is under achieving.

So you can stick your pitchforks where the sun don't shine.

We were top at the start of the year and everything was mint.

Few weeks later, we're 3rd and some are demanding the coach to be sacked, the sporting director to be sacked and answers from KLD.

Some had been banging on saying get Flanagan out of the club, he's gone and now they're saying we shouldn't have sold him.

As many ex managers/coaches have said at this club, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.
 
Yeah everyone get back to clapping the fooking dross being delivered by our historic club because that always gets results...what a load of pap sick of this get behind the team crap nearly 40.000 at a league 1 home game i think the time for happy clapping is over
 
Here’s the thing.

I don’t care who “owns the club”

It’s ours not theirs.

What I care about is being in the third division

I would prefer whoever owns the club to do something about this or just leave.
I get what you are saying about not caring about who owns the club, but unfortunately it has a massive bearing on what happens with the team, that’s the truth.
Just look at what has happened since ES said I am not putting anymore money in, a mess ever since.
 
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