Can tourists be sectioned under the Mental Health Act?

Skandhaless

Striker
Thank you @cruze @Skandhaless @rudd @NewAdventuresInWiFi and @yorkyexile, your insight is much appreciated.

The way I am reading this is that if I invite someone from say the US, and they arrive here and feel that they are heading into a crisis, I can take them to a GP, have them go through the sectioning procedure and have them voluntarily admitted to a UK mental facility where they will get a completely new assessment. We are not sure if they would be charged money for this, but as it would be done as a legal act, it is unlikely that they would be charged.
Just a bit further on this. A post you made on mental health day suggests the person you may wish to invite may be currently in a secure mental health setting in the states. I would really caution against expecting this person to relocate if the half expectation is he/she will be sectioned here. The stay in our facility may be more humane than they experience in the USA but the duration will be short and as a foreign national I am not sure they will qualify for community support following or free S117 after care. Given history they may well be repatriated immediately on discharge as home will be seen as more beneficial in a developed nation such as USA where they have care history .
The whole experience could be deeply damaging to such a person, please think very carefully and don't in a desire to help be tempted to be speculative using our mental health act as a fail safe, it will not be a great process.
Best wishes.
 

duff_man

Striker
I pose the following question to the hive mind of the SMB: Can someone visiting the UK on the purpose of tourism be sectioned under the Mental Health Act if they are deemed to meet the requirements? My suspicion is that until Brexit completes an EU citizen would be sectioned and receive treatment under the same terms as a UK resident, but that it is possible those visiting from outside of the EU might go through a process of medical repatriation for treatment in their home nation. I have been asking around but can not get a clear answer.
Of course they can’t just like they aren’t liable for any offences they commit while here.
In reality there is a very big difference under voluntary you can refuse treatment under section 2 you can't, but in terms of detention you're right even if you're voluntary your not leaving without assessment and there are further short duration section powers for medics and nurses to prevent you walking out until that happens.

Section 136 is a specific police power to take to a place of safety if in a public place without application for a warrant (s135 is removal from a dwelling and needs warrant). You would then be assessed and come under a section 2 or 3.
You dont have to be arrested under 136 to be assessed (say if you're in outpatients already or professionals are called to your home and given entry freely by you or another) its mainly just right to transport against your will for assessment
There is also the mental capacity act available for certain situations.
 
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Just a bit further on this. A post you made on mental health day suggests the person you may wish to invite may be currently in a secure mental health setting in the states. I would really caution against expecting this person to relocate if the half expectation is he/she will be sectioned here. The stay in our facility may be more humane than they experience in the USA but the duration will be short and as a foreign national I am not sure they will qualify for community support following or free S117 after care. Given history they may well be repatriated immediately on discharge as home will be seen as more beneficial in a developed nation such as USA where they have care history .
The whole experience could be deeply damaging to such a person, please think very carefully and don't in a desire to help be tempted to be speculative using our mental health act as a fail safe, it will not be a great process.
Best wishes.
The individual wishes to visit the UK, but I have been resisting hosting them in the event of there being a serious problem. I was thinking that there would be no contingencies if there was a serious episode. In the event that they did need help, I know which facility I want them taken to, and I suspect that the assessment would be vastly superior to what they have had in the US.

Just to put this in context, in the previous place they were in there were literally people left wandering around covered in shit. The hospital I left them in on the weekend was like a prison. The staff seemed to have all had a humanity bypass. Something has gone badly wrong this year, and I am not even convinced they are receiving real medications as the current medication seems bizarre.

Really, I am desperate and I know a brilliant facility where I trust the people. It is at the stage now where I am ready to try anything, because the current situation is simply impossible and it going to result in the individual getting into more and more terrible situations.
 

Skandhaless

Striker
The individual wishes to visit the UK, but I have been resisting hosting them in the event of there being a serious problem. I was thinking that there would be no contingencies if there was a serious episode. In the event that they did need help, I know which facility I want them taken to, and I suspect that the assessment would be vastly superior to what they have had in the US.

Just to put this in context, in the previous place they were in there were literally people left wandering around covered in shit. The hospital I left them in on the weekend was like a prison. The staff seemed to have all had a humanity bypass. Something has gone badly wrong this year, and I am not even convinced they are receiving real medications as the current medication seems bizarre.

Really, I am desperate and I know a brilliant facility where I trust the people. It is at the stage now where I am ready to try anything, because the current situation is simply impossible and it going to result in the individual getting into more and more terrible situations.
Mmm...i realise this is very personal to you but bringing foreign nationals who are know to be unwell into the UK to improve their experience of mental health services when we are already looking high and low for beds and turning our own citizens back to home support for lack of them kind of goes against the grain.
If this is your spouse fair enough but a "friend"?, sorry our services should not be expected to look after her free.
If you can pay for such as the priory go for it but we in statutory mental health are already stretched trying to manage the seriously ill people we already have. It's not our fault usa health care is shite... But you do have my sympathies
 
Mmm...i realise this is very personal to you but bringing foreign nationals who are know to be unwell into the UK to improve their experience of mental health services when we are already looking high and low for beds and turning our own citizens back to home support for lack of them kind of goes against the grain.
If this is your spouse fair enough but a "friend"?, sorry our services should not be expected to look after her free.
If you can pay for such as the priory go for it but we in statutory mental health are already stretched trying to manage the seriously ill people we already have. It's not our fault usa health care is shite... But you do have my sympathies
This is primarily a contingency, and if the law is there to protect everyone then I will bring them here to do what we need to do (there are business activities permitted within the Standard Visa planned) and in the event of a serious issue we shall use the provisions in law. I am opposed to current immigration arrangements and the EU, yet I have helped many EU nationals move here, as well as other foreigners. I will always operate to the current rules. My friend needs help in geneal and in order to help them I need to bring them here. If they need to fall back on the support our State offers anyone here, visiting or otherwise, then so be it. It could well result in better outcomes in the long term for the individual. This is an exceptional case, the circumstances are particularly unusual, and the need is great, and I am currently the only person that they trust. I have seen the situation first hand and it is not good.
 

Skandhaless

Striker
This is primarily a contingency, and if the law is there to protect everyone then I will bring them here to do what we need to do (there are business activities permitted within the Standard Visa planned) and in the event of a serious issue we shall use the provisions in law. I am opposed to current immigration arrangements and the EU, yet I have helped many EU nationals move here, as well as other foreigners. I will always operate to the current rules. My friend needs help in geneal and in order to help them I need to bring them here. If they need to fall back on the support our State offers anyone here, visiting or otherwise, then so be it. It could well result in better outcomes in the long term for the individual. This is an exceptional case, the circumstances are particularly unusual, and the need is great, and I am currently the only person that they trust. I have seen the situation first hand and it is not good.
Well its not for me to judge without knowing the full facts (or at all really) but the fact she is in secure MH services now suggests our state support would likely be more than a contingency and again I would caution against uprooting someone so unwell. Perhaps you could discuss it with her psychiatrist I'm sure they have her interests at heart.
 

safcsafc

Midfield
The individual wishes to visit the UK, but I have been resisting hosting them in the event of there being a serious problem. I was thinking that there would be no contingencies if there was a serious episode. In the event that they did need help, I know which facility I want them taken to, and I suspect that the assessment would be vastly superior to what they have had in the US.

Just to put this in context, in the previous place they were in there were literally people left wandering around covered in shit. The hospital I left them in on the weekend was like a prison. The staff seemed to have all had a humanity bypass. Something has gone badly wrong this year, and I am not even convinced they are receiving real medications as the current medication seems bizarre.

Really, I am desperate and I know a brilliant facility where I trust the people. It is at the stage now where I am ready to try anything, because the current situation is simply impossible and it going to result in the individual getting into more and more terrible situations.
Unless you are funding this privately, it is very unlikely to happen (if we are talking admission to psychiatric hospital). There is a massive bed shortage and unfortunately it is common that people are placed wherever a bed can be found.
Thank you @cruze @Skandhaless @rudd @NewAdventuresInWiFi and @yorkyexile, your insight is much appreciated.

The way I am reading this is that if I invite someone from say the US, and they arrive here and feel that they are heading into a crisis, I can take them to a GP, have them go through the sectioning procedure and have them voluntarily admitted to a UK mental facility where they will get a completely new assessment. We are not sure if they would be charged money for this, but as it would be done as a legal act, it is unlikely that they would be charged.
Againvim not sure this plan would be reliable. What gp would they go to, presumably you would have to register them? It's not as easy as having them go through the sanctioning procedure. That is not the gp decision. A gp can request the assessment under mha83 but the decision to progress with that assessment would be down to the amhp. The may be encourage to contact crisis team, gp support or other community services.
If an assessment does progress, voluntary admission would depend on the circumstances, the persons capacity to consent to this and whether the recommending doctors and amhp feel this is necessary.

Probably not want you want to hear and please dont take this the wrong way but this doesnt sound like a good idea from what you've said so far. Theres a lot to think about. Will they be ok going from whatever support they have in the US to a period of no/little support while visiting the UK?
Just read that back - ignore the typos!! Fat fingers :)
 
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Skandhaless

Striker
Unless you are funding this privately, it is very unlikely to happen (if we are talking admission to psychiatric hospital). There is a massive bed shortage and unfortunately it is common that people are placed wherever a bed can be found.

Againvim not sure this plan would be reliable. What gp would they go to, presumably you would have to register them? It's not as easy as having them go through the sanctioning procedure. That is not the gp decision. A gp can request the assessment under mha83 but the decision to progress with that assessment would be down to the amhp. The may be encourage to contact crisis team, gp support or other community services.
If an assessment does progress, voluntary admission would depend on the circumstances, the persons capacity to consent to this and whether the recommending doctors and amhp feel this is necessary.

Probably not want you want to hear and please dont take this the wrong way but this doesnt sound like a good idea from what you've said so far. Theres a lot to think about. Will they be ok going from whatever support they have in the US to a period of no/little support while visiting the UK?
Just read that back - ignore the typos!! Fat fingers :)
The state of things at present if they were in need of community support under cpa they would be on a CMHT waiting list for allocation (that's even if they had entitlement) for 6 months to a year with no support beyond reactive crisis work and further admission . I think services would definitely say repatriation was in the patients interest so better book a return ticket as there will be no travel insurance given the state of health and preexisting conditions.
 

safcsafc

Midfield
The state of things at present if they were in need of community support under cpa they would be on a CMHT waiting list for allocation (that's even if they had entitlement) for 6 months to a year with no support beyond reactive crisis work and further admission . I think services would definitely say repatriation was in the patients interest so better book a return ticket as there will be no travel insurance given the state of health and preexisting conditions.
Yep I agree with you. This person is likely to be faced with no formal support here for a long period. Waiting for crisis point to an extent of considering detention in hospital doesnt seem in their best interests. I'd be looking at complaints procedures in the US about the current care (or lack of) being provided rather than a move to the uk for this purpose.
 

cruze

Winger
Yep I agree with you. This person is likely to be faced with no formal support here for a long period. Waiting for crisis point to an extent of considering detention in hospital doesnt seem in their best interests. I'd be looking at complaints procedures in the US about the current care (or lack of) being provided rather than a move to the uk for this purpose.
I’d hope they were. There are far many tax paying people in need of services who would suffer at the expense of health tourism. Surely the visa is would expire and not be renewed anyway.
Silly idea at best. Morally disgusting at worst
 

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