Builders/Surveyors - Roof Spread Advice

After a bit of 'free' advice before I book a structural surveyor.. Ive seen a lot of methods of remedying this in wooden structures but not brick/timber
Our garage was built around 1940/50 and over time the previous residents decided to re-roof with concrete tiles and done so without looking at reinforcing the roof structure (apex).
Have noticed a fair bit of roof spread mainly in the middle section (9.5x2.5m). Walls are out of plumb by about 15cms (7.5 either side).
Anyway.. question is, can it be saved? e.g. wall ties, raise the roof and pull the walls in plumb before adding further rafter ties/repairing brickwork. Is it too much effort to sort this out before it falls on my head... or is it better to remove tiles/roof and bull down several courses of brick and rebuild?
Thanks in advance

Just to add, only has a minimal number of low rafter ties/ceiling joists and no collar ties
 
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Kevj

Striker
I can’t remember the BS for masonry tolerances (@Pnematic can you advise?) It’s possible the walls have moved as far as they are going to based on the increased loadings.

If it hasn’t fallen down, I’d look at a modified flitch beam arrangement to prevent further deformation. A steel plate bolted to the lower cord of the roof truss to prevent further splaying occurring.
 
I can’t remember the BS for masonry tolerances (@Pnematic can you advise?) It’s possible the walls have moved as far as they are going to based on the increased loadings.

If it hasn’t fallen down, I’d look at a modified flitch beam arrangement to prevent further deformation. A steel plate bolted to the lower cord of the roof truss to prevent further splaying occurring.
Thanks for this, Just want to make sure it is safe. Its been stood with those tiles for at least 10 years. Id considered additional rafter ties but was concerned about further weight already on the walls.
I did however consider building in a concrete wall in the middle of the garage (at about 4.5M) as a new load bearing wall and done similar at the back of the garage and tie in to the single course of bricks there. What I have noticed recently is that the original ridge beams (two lengths nailed together at the mid-point) seem to be where the point of failure occurred, and it looks like that a small 1-2cm drop in the middle has caused most of the problems. (without reverting to trig to calculate what the actual drop would be to cause that amount of spread).
If the flitch beam is the answer, im unsure how that would then allow me to make good some of the brickwork where its cracked (sorry no pics)

Really appreciate your reply Kev
 

Kevj

Striker
Thanks for this, Just want to make sure it is safe. Its been stood with those tiles for at least 10 years. Id considered additional rafter ties but was concerned about further weight already on the walls.
I did however consider building in a concrete wall in the middle of the garage (at about 4.5M) as a new load bearing wall and done similar at the back of the garage and tie in to the single course of bricks there. What I have noticed recently is that the original ridge beams (two lengths nailed together at the mid-point) seem to be where the point of failure occurred, and it looks like that a small 1-2cm drop in the middle has caused most of the problems. (without reverting to trig to calculate what the actual drop would be to cause that amount of spread).
If the flitch beam is the answer, im unsure how that would then allow me to make good some of the brickwork where its cracked (sorry no pics)

Really appreciate your reply Kev

I’d need to see some images to get a full understanding of the issue. However, the lower cord of a truss is generally in tension and a flitch beam will add significantly more tensile strength to the arrangement. If there’s no further deformation, then the lower cord is already doing it’s job, however it will be highly stressed and could fail under extremes of load such as high winds.

PM me if you want and send me some photos.
 

Will e

Full Back
There's things like @Kevj suggests that would possibly solve your problem.
Would it not be best to contact your insurers? Don't muck about with things like this, you need someone who specifically knows what is required.
Are the walls single leaf? If they are that's too much movement to repair mate.
 
I’d need to see some images to get a full understanding of the issue. However, the lower cord of a truss is generally in tension and a flitch beam will add significantly more tensile strength to the arrangement. If there’s no further deformation, then the lower cord is already doing it’s job, however it will be highly stressed and could fail under extremes of load such as high winds.

PM me if you want and send me some photos.
I’ll ping you later at some point. Cheers
There's things like @Kevj suggests that would possibly solve your problem.
Would it not be best to contact your insurers? Don't muck about with things like this, you need someone who specifically knows what is required.
Are the walls single leaf? If they are that's too much movement to repair mate.
it its single skin with pillars every couple of metres. It is purely in the middle.
insurers don’t cover roof spread apparently. If it has to come down then so be it. I’ll send a few pics to Kev at some point
 

Kevj

Striker
Flitch beam :D :lol:

some proper googling been going on here and that one term is the smoking gun.

If I told you we put a flitch beam in a local castle. This was an existing oak beam which supported an upper floor which was beginning to sag significantly and the only thing we could get past English heritage was a carbon fibre inset so the aesthetic wasn’t changed.

I’m not advocating splitting the truss, it’s easy to clad each side with steel plate.

I’ll let you hoy the bricks up and the clever lads tell you what to do.
 
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Gillythedilf

Midfield
If I told you we put a flitch beam in a local castle. This was an existing oak beam which supported an upper floor which was beginning to sag significantly and the only thing we could get past English heritage was a carbon fibre inset so the aesthetic wasn’t changed.

I’m not advocating splitting the truss, it’s easy to clad each side with steel plate.

I’ll let you hoy the bricks up and the clever lads tell you what to do.
That’s what I’ve done in listed historic buildings mate.

on a garage some c24 6x2 would be more than enough,in a house,ie: these Sunderland cottages they have conc tiles on we have put steel plates on either side of the bottom cord to stop any further spread.
Sometimes some steel under the ridge,either side of the perlings is req also.
 

Will e

Full Back
I’ll ping you later at some point. Cheers

it its single skin with pillars every couple of metres. It is purely in the middle.
insurers don’t cover roof spread apparently. If it has to come down then so be it. I’ll send a few pics to Kev at some point
Aren't insurance companies complete robbing bastards. Did you get a full survey done when you bought the house? Have you had different insurers for this house to the one who told you they didn't cover roof spread?
Insurers will find any excuse to not pay out.
 
Aren't insurance companies complete robbing bastards. Did you get a full survey done when you bought the house? Have you had different insurers for this house to the one who told you they didn't cover roof spread?
Insurers will find any excuse to not pay out.
If it was more recently then whoever put the tiles on needs a call.
 

Will e

Full Back
If it was more recently then whoever put the tiles on needs a call.
you'd not get anywhere with that mate, My point was if there was different insurers you could say you had noticed it when they insured it but it had got worse recently, there is a small chance they could cover roof spread but I doubt it.
 

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