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ajax_andy
Guest
So this thread is closed now, yes?
Maybe... see if i'm having a better day tomorrow and if not we can re-name it 'Ajax_Andy's big moan thread'
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Happy St George's Day Guest
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Maybe... see if i'm having a better day tomorrow and if not we can re-name it 'Ajax_Andy's big moan thread'
Maximus
Striker
Part of the problem is compromise - over-compromise to the point that anything above garbage is considered (by some) as decent. Add to that the fact that every man jack now has at least a bridge camera, and even a "competent" DSLR is within the realms of the masses.
The Americans, as mentioned, go for the whole "Big Day" thing - at one time, it was de-rigeur to have a photographer with a medium-format set-up and a generation of experience. Digital cameras and the fact a darkroom is no longer a necessity contributed to a sort of reduction in standard.
Kid Galahad
Striker
A good and probably quite cheap way to get your work seen on the High St would be try and find a vacant shop in one of the more affluent towns about and see about hireing their window space as a gallery or at least a showcase for your work, it's worth ringing around a few estate agents anyway to see what they'd charge? They find a buyer/tenant just move your display to another empty shop.Hmm £5k you say? Interestingly that's what I'm putting my prices up to... can you recommend me? ;-D
In all seriousness I'd jump at the chance to do a wedding in Florence... would cost more than my usual packages as you basically lose the day before and after due to travel, but it'd definitely come in considerably under £5k
Aye that's true like... especially up here. Plan is to start targeting Edinburgh as well eventually and move to the borders and do Northumberland and Edinburgh where the money is good[DOUBLEPOST=1377083193][/DOUBLEPOST]
Yeah I suppose they'll not be around in a few years and I still will be... you're right about the long process of building a sustainable business and it's something I've tried to do from day one.
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ajax_andy
Guest
Sounds like a decent idea, apart from the 'hiring' part... no cash for owt like that at the mo unfortunately
Kid Galahad
Striker
If you offer to 'dress' a bare window they might go for it if you offer a % on any work that it generates, you never know till you ask, shy bairns and that....
MalmöMakem
Midfield
I was looking at this the other day. I live in a rather small market town where we have one main professional photographer with his own little studio/shop. I actually used your site as a comparison, showing how what you were offering was not only value for money, but decent photos. My local photographer is basically one of those who does everything, just not very well.
http://mikeralph.com
Website says it all really. It's easy to understand why some photographers give up trying to make a living from it when you have people like this.
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ajax_andy
Guest
That website is bloody dire! I've seen worse pics, but they aint great... the whole thing just comes across as very lazy and bland... but he has a shop and so people will think he's good no doubt and book him[DOUBLEPOST=1377171463][/DOUBLEPOST]
Fuck me just read this back and I clearly wasn't in the happiest of mindsets yesterday
MalmöMakem
Midfield
That website is bloody dire! I've seen worse pics, but they aint great... the whole thing just comes across as very lazy and bland... but he has a shop and so people will think he's good no doubt and book him[DOUBLEPOST=1377171463][/DOUBLEPOST]
Fuck me just read this back and I clearly wasn't in the happiest of mindsets yesterday
Aye, there are worse, but he's still pretty bad. He's one of these photographers that just do the same shite with everyone. It honestly looks like he has never heard of post production either. Which in my opinion is vital for photography when selling to clients.
I'll stick to the sports photography!
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ajax_andy
Guest
Aye must be nice to just turn up, shoot and stick them on a disk and put them in the post... no pride in that though really!
Decided that the only way to stop being annoyed with stuff like this is to put my prices up... so just stuck them up by £100 for all packages
Decided that the only way to stop being annoyed with stuff like this is to put my prices up... so just stuck them up by £100 for all packages
K
kensplace
Guest
I think part of the problem is that a lot of the general public simply don't care about how good a photo is - they do not know what is wrong with a photo.
The public at large, and their lack of ability to tell the difference between good/bad photography is why newspapers etc are happy to print pixelated garbage (the echo's speciality) or dodgy shots taken on a phone camera.
Then you have the fact that it's a photo of their special day or whatever, so the memory is 'special' to them, so a pile of crap is acceptable and to them is brilliant.
Testimonials can also easily be faked, especially on the web.
It's the same in many industries tho, at least ones that are basically unregulated.
I used to be in the software industry, and in general, the higher up you went in that industry the more you realised that the bigger the firm, the less people knew.
Complete idiots were in charge, complete morons were writing software.
The highest paid (not always, but in general) were clueless, people that I would not even hire to write a simple website, never mind a complex software package.
Photography, like the software industry is full of people who 'think' they are great, but in reality don't even know the basics.
The sad fact is, they often do well, because to do well, you dont always have to have talent - being able to bullsh&t and lie is all they need, and combined with a public that would not know the difference between a work of art and a pile of garbage they have it easy.
A lack conscience helps greatly, as a pro wants to give the best results possible, an scam artist just does not care.
The true masters of scamming the public, the true evils ones, are politicians, they take the art form to a whole new level.[DOUBLEPOST=1377249869][/DOUBLEPOST]
Had a boss that once told me he put his prices up, as his stuff was not selling well.
Turns out the buyers thought if its cheap, must be crap, and putting the prices up resulted in more sales.
Weird old world.
The public at large, and their lack of ability to tell the difference between good/bad photography is why newspapers etc are happy to print pixelated garbage (the echo's speciality) or dodgy shots taken on a phone camera.
Then you have the fact that it's a photo of their special day or whatever, so the memory is 'special' to them, so a pile of crap is acceptable and to them is brilliant.
Testimonials can also easily be faked, especially on the web.
It's the same in many industries tho, at least ones that are basically unregulated.
I used to be in the software industry, and in general, the higher up you went in that industry the more you realised that the bigger the firm, the less people knew.
Complete idiots were in charge, complete morons were writing software.
The highest paid (not always, but in general) were clueless, people that I would not even hire to write a simple website, never mind a complex software package.
Photography, like the software industry is full of people who 'think' they are great, but in reality don't even know the basics.
The sad fact is, they often do well, because to do well, you dont always have to have talent - being able to bullsh&t and lie is all they need, and combined with a public that would not know the difference between a work of art and a pile of garbage they have it easy.
A lack conscience helps greatly, as a pro wants to give the best results possible, an scam artist just does not care.
The true masters of scamming the public, the true evils ones, are politicians, they take the art form to a whole new level.[DOUBLEPOST=1377249869][/DOUBLEPOST]
Aye must be nice to just turn up, shoot and stick them on a disk and put them in the post... no pride in that though really!
Decided that the only way to stop being annoyed with stuff like this is to put my prices up... so just stuck them up by £100 for all packages
Had a boss that once told me he put his prices up, as his stuff was not selling well.
Turns out the buyers thought if its cheap, must be crap, and putting the prices up resulted in more sales.
Weird old world.
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ajax_andy
Guest
Yeah I agree with all that mate... I've experienced that at work loads in the past!
I have been wondering if I should be putting my prices up to try and attract more work as I have worried I would be deemed a little too cheap... lets hope I at least maintain my current level of enquiries at the new prices and get less frustrated as a result
I have been wondering if I should be putting my prices up to try and attract more work as I have worried I would be deemed a little too cheap... lets hope I at least maintain my current level of enquiries at the new prices and get less frustrated as a result
K
kensplace
Guest
People like expensive things. Even tho most expensive things are overpriced junk....
(not always tho).
But lets face it, even in the camera world - things are overpriced, and people flock to buy them.
Just look at L lenses - no way on earth it costs any where near that price to make them.
(not always tho).
But lets face it, even in the camera world - things are overpriced, and people flock to buy them.
Just look at L lenses - no way on earth it costs any where near that price to make them.
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ajax_andy
Guest
sonson
Striker
Thing that puts me off with stuff like that is greed. Work out what you need to cover your overheads, and to make a comfortable but not ridiculous profit, and don't charge too much on top of that. I am not going to give anyone slightly less than what I earn in a month for a day's work.
If you've a quality product people will be interested, don't worry about others.
Pitching your price is hard. (not just in photography). Go very high and you will obtain the market who thinks high price is good quality (not necessarily so), but you'll lose those who can't afford you. Undersell yourself and you'll lose the market that thinks - that's cheap - can't be any good (though you'll pick up a few who are budget conscious).
I've been self-employed before (not as a photographer) and I think the best thing to do is be the very best you can, get some proper references, build up a reputation, and the work will come. Make sure at the end of the week you have done a fair (very good) job for your punter and feel you have been fairly rewarded. Good rule of thumb, find someone you admire, and can match, and pitch around the same.
I've been self-employed before (not as a photographer) and I think the best thing to do is be the very best you can, get some proper references, build up a reputation, and the work will come. Make sure at the end of the week you have done a fair (very good) job for your punter and feel you have been fairly rewarded. Good rule of thumb, find someone you admire, and can match, and pitch around the same.
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ajax_andy
Guest
Yeah sound advice mate... I look around a lot at what other people are doing and charging, and I'd say at the moment I'm producing stuff as good as 2 I'd class as the better togs around these parts, and they both charge about £1,500 so I'm still a little under them. I know one of those does 50 weddings a year so the higher end client must be there... difference is they've been around a lot longer and so rep means they get lots or work and rightly so.
I'll keep plugging away... hopefully it'll pay off
Good luck. And I'm a lass.Yeah sound advice mate...
I'll keep plugging away... hopefully it'll pay off
I
Iain Hesford's Bait Box
Guest
I keep returning to this site, and posting it here. Always good for a giggle. Really makes me scratch my head, as to what people look for in a picture.
http://youarenotaphotographer.com/
Seems apt for this thread.
http://youarenotaphotographer.com/
Seems apt for this thread.
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ajax_andy
Guest
Good luck. And I'm a lass.
Haha sorry peachy I didn't read who'd posted that and just put 'mate' out of habit
[DOUBLEPOST=1377361433][/DOUBLEPOST]
Haha yeah seen that before... So so bad!
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