BBC: Why is heroin killing so many people?

[GK]

And if they never come off it? What incentive is there to stop it's free after all? Also if there's just 1 hit a day what's to say they don't want 2 or 3 or 4 hits a day, where they going to get the other hits or the money for them? I assume we up the times we let them get free hits or the crimes won't lessen
If say we did take this model up do we do the same for coke, alcohol even fags. They are all highly.addictivewhat makes skagheads any less needy than the other groups?

Have a read up on e.g. portugal. There are no "what ifs". Just facts and stats.

 

[Lonz]

And if they never come off it? What incentive is there to stop it's free after all? Also if there's just 1 hit a day what's to say they don't want 2 or 3 or 4 hits a day, where they going to get the other hits or the money for them?
If say we did take this model up do we do the same for coke, alcohol even fags. They are all highly.addictivewhat makes skagheads any less needy than the other groups?

If they never come off then we're no worse off. Users are costing us a fortune at the moment. You keep talking about "incentive" but they current policies having led to a problem that is as bad as it's ever been.

It's funny you mention tobacco as the use of cigarettes has fallen to an all time low recently, after a campaign of making it a health issue rather than just criminalising its use. What more evidence do you need that a change in policy on harder drugs might actually work?

Heroin is also much, much more addictive than alcohol or tobacco.

 

[Boz33]

Theoretical nonsense. Its like the examples of the rest of the world have passed you by.

In that case there'd be no addicts in places like Switzerland where they run the program. The old woman on last night's report looked like shed been on it years and no sign of giving it up there that's for sure

 

[Cockney Mackem]

And if they never come off it? What incentive is there to stop it's free after all? Also if there's just 1 hit a day what's to say they don't want 2 or 3 or 4 hits a day, where they going to get the other hits or the money for them? I assume we up the times we let them get free hits or the crimes won't lessen
If say we did take this model up do we do the same for coke, alcohol even fags. They are all highly.addictivewhat makes skagheads any less needy than the other groups?

If we're going to take this model up, is the start of your question, but you are wilfully ignoring most of the key details of how the model works, which people have spelled out several times on this thread, in your argument about how flawed it is.

 

[Boz33]

If they never come off then we're no worse off. Users are costing us a fortune at the moment. You keep talking about "incentive" but they current policies having led to a problem that is as bad as it's ever been.

It's funny you mention tobacco as the use of cigarettes has fallen to an all time low recently, after a campaign of making it a health issue rather than just criminalising its use. What more evidence do you need that a change in policy on harder drugs might actually work?

Heroin is also much, much more addictive than alcohol or tobacco.

I'd say tobacco use has dropped more to the outlawing of it on pubs and the eye watering taxes rather than any substantial health drives. Maybe ban pubs from selling beer will help cut down alcoholics?

 

[Frijj]

In that case there'd be no addicts in places like Switzerland where they run the program. The old woman on last night's report looked like shed been on it years and no sign of giving it up there that's for sure

We simply have to accept that many older opiate addicts will never, ever give it up.

Hard fact but one we need to accept.

 

[Boz33]

If we're going to take this model up, is the start of your question, but you are wilfully ignoring most of the key details of how the model works, which people have spelled out several times on this thread, in your argument about how flawed it is.

How so? The Swiss model they get one hit a day? I doubt many skagheads are on just one hit a day

 

[Lonz]

I'd say tobacco use has dropped more to the outlawing of it on pubs and the eye watering taxes rather than any substantial health drives. Maybe ban pubs from selling beer will help cut down alcoholics?

What do you think the increase in taxes was designed to do?

How so? The Swiss model they get one hit a day? I doubt many skagheads are on just one hit a day

Unfortunately the stats aren't backing up your argument.

 

[yorkyexile]

People make bad decisions all the time. Almost every adult has had a drink at least once. If we have a way to help addicts we should do it

Speaking as an ex smoker of around 40 - 60 a day at the worst point and a smoker for about the last 30 years, the help to quit is just "mopping up". The majority of effort really should still be to stop them putting the shite in in the first place

 

[super noodles]

There's a point that trumps the lot for me, and that's that heroin addicts are people, just like the rest of us, who deserve empathy and support in fighting a problem that's got out of control. All the statistics about reduced crime, overdoses etc. just back up the case for these centres

And if they never come off it? What incentive is there to stop it's free after all? Also if there's just 1 hit a day what's to say they don't want 2 or 3 or 4 hits a day, where they going to get the other hits or the money for them? I assume we up the times we let them get free hits or the crimes won't lessen
If say we did take this model up do we do the same for coke, alcohol even fags. They are all highly.addictivewhat makes skagheads any less needy than the other groups?

It's pretty clear that cost isn't much of a deterrent to addicts. Lots of people commit crime to fund their addiction because giving up is so difficult. Giving them a safe outlet to take heroin wouldn't change their incentives to quit, but it would mean they wouldn't need to steal.

Also, we already treat alcohol and fag addiction quite openly. Not sure what your point is there.

 

[theinediblebulk]

[QUOTE="MickeyV, post: 26367907, member: 8558"
I know a lot of addicts are useless wasters, but the stark choice is to try to straighten them out or suffer the burglaries, muggings and frauds that fund the system we have now.[/QUOTE]

Nail on head. Really is this simple, regardless of what anyone's personal opinion on the matter is imo. Help these people to either stabilize or kick the habit and get them back into society's fold rather than condemning an already socially excluded group of people. Or let's carry on leaving it to an already overburdened police force to deal with all manner of petty crime that does nothing to stop the self-destructive behavior they already have. Doesn't seem like a difficult decision to me.

 

[pavarotti1980]

I realise that you are just trying to make me feel special by constantly picking up on my posts, but be a good lad and bog off, will you? There are other posters on this site that you can troll.

I am sure if you had any factual basis for your statements you could post them up here even if the figures are at best anecdotal

 

[super noodles]

Speaking as an ex smoker of around 40 - 60 a day at the worst point and a smoker for about the last 30 years, the help to quit is just "mopping up". The majority of effort really should still be to stop them putting the shite in in the first place

Aye definitely. Prevention is better than treatment

 

[GK]

In that case there'd be no addicts in places like Switzerland where they run the program. The old woman on last night's report looked like shed been on it years and no sign of giving it up there that's for sure

No idea how you've come to that conclusion. No addicts? Eh?

 

[pavarotti1980]

There's a point that trumps the lot for me, and that's that heroin addicts are people, just like the rest of us, who deserve empathy and support in fighting a problem that's got out of control. All the statistics about reduced crime, overdoses etc. just back up the case for these centres

I hate the social exclusion associated with drug addicts. They have an addiction and the first response of some is tough let them get on with it, deny them the treatment unless they pay etc etc. That can be attributed to any addiciton; smoking, drinking and eating. The long term costs in personal health and monetry costs to the country are huge if the problems arent tackled and simply legislating against their use is not the answer. The greater the legislation, the more undergound the problem goes

 

[GK]

How so? The Swiss model they get one hit a day? I doubt many skagheads are on just one hit a day

Honest, I'm sure your intentions are good but you haven't read into this at all. Or even understand why e.g. Portugal did what they did and the results they've seen.

I'd read up on it before getting into a debate.

 

[Jasper]

You're right. Fuck them, dirty smack head bastards. Why should we give them any help at all, f***ing wasters that they all are. Well, apart from the ones I worked with in Holland who got heroin prescribed which helped them stabilize their life and actually go to work rather than going out and stealing shit to pay for a bag of crap smack. But yeah, fuck that, let's just live them to sink instead. Fuck helping them, what a waste of time that would be.

Exactly. Fuck those who make bad choices in life. Fuck those suffer from addiction. I’M alright mate, I pay MY taxes so why isn’t the Goverment doing anything for ME?

 

[theinediblebulk]

And if they never come off it? What incentive is there to stop it's free after all? Also if there's just 1 hit a day what's to say they don't want 2 or 3 or 4 hits a day, where they going to get the other hits or the money for them? I assume we up the times we let them get free hits or the crimes won't lessen
If say we did take this model up do we do the same for coke, alcohol even fags. They are all highly.addictivewhat makes skagheads any less needy than the other groups?

So what if they never come off it? If they're going to work and not having a detrimental effect on the society they live in, what's the problem? I've worked alongside people who got prescribed heroin so I've seen the difference it makes in people's lives. Personally, I think it's a small price to pay for prescriptions in return for the wider and more positive social effects it has in terms of reduced crime, reduced criminal money, reduced health problems.

But you're not up for any of that so what's your solution?

 

[Jasper]

If there was ever a health intervention that should have as little input from the general public as possible it has to be substance misuse.

I mean I’d welcome it but attitudes need to change - it is at the moment one of anger and misunderstanding

Exactly. Much like mental health, disability and sexuality, people in general just don’t understand the issues in sufficient depth to make a judgement. The problem we have now is that people have a platform to make public judgements which are ill informed. Which just makes it all the more difficult to inform.

 

[Deleted member 26533]

It's pretty clear that cost isn't much of a deterrent to addicts. Lots of people commit crime to fund their addiction because giving up is so difficult. Giving them a safe outlet to take heroin wouldn't change their incentives to quit, but it would mean they wouldn't need to steal.

Also, we already treat alcohol and fag addiction quite openly. Not sure what your point is there.

Area not far away from me they just sit on benches or walk around asking for a quid.

Had one right by the tube station near me who wanted oyster cards, even in minus credit. Seen him try and return a meal deal somebody had brought him from Sainsbury's anarl.