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BBC: Why is heroin killing so many people?

Discussion in 'SMB' started by Some Random Guy, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. I agree but I'd go further and say no drug users should be prosecuted. A lot of them already have enough problems and don't need any more. Dealers fair enough. And I say that as someone who has sold drugs. And totally agree with the Vietnamese issue you raise; that is proper horrible. Poor people spend grands to get here and then get locked in a gaff with a generally unsafe bridged electric supply to grow loads of weed for cash cropping. poor fuckers. And yes, that problem does indeed go away if you get legislation.

    As an aside, one of the reasons why there's been such an increase in people trafficking is due to sentencing. You get a lot more jail for shipping in kilo's of smack than you do a truck load of people from wherever, and the money returns will be just as good, if not better.

    :lol::lol: Behave. Their weed policy has never really been a problem for them, never mind it being out of control. There's been issues regarding the clarification of it's legal status but that's different from having an issue with the drug itself. As for mass market, one of the most surprising things I discovered when I moved there was less young people smoked it than did in the UK. A tourist market associated with Amsterdam, most definitely, but not mass market. There's more bars selling alcohol than coffee shops selling weed in Holland so it's easy to work out which drug is mass market out of the two. If you really want to look at a drug issue that's out of control it's heroin in the UK.

    I know Durham Police don't prosecute growers, I've collected a caution from them for growing. I was growing back in the 90's, first bust was 1999 by West Midlands police. I had a mother plant and 32 cuttings and the drug squad left the house dismayed, gutted at what was there. Because what was there was fuck all. I knew it, the cops knew it, the CPS knew it, the magistrate's knew it. In fact, pretty much everyone involved in the law side of things, cop or grower, knows the law doesn't work and it never will.

    As for creating an industry, it's already here. Type hydroponic grow shop into google and see just how many places up and down the UK sell nothing but equipment for growing weed. What do you think all the people who visit those shops every day are doing with the stuff they buy, storing it in the garage until the government says it's legal to grow? Nah, they're growing. And there's that many people growing it, a few forces are going down the caution route for personal growing as they have no other option. Fudging the weed issue to try to deal with bigger problems. Hmmm, where have I encountered that before.
     
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  2. gavinmcant

    gavinmcant Winger

    And that would discourage people moving to an area of prescribed heroin? I have my doubts. I'm sure people would turn up with excuses and be admitted to the programme anyway.

    Disagree with that mind- modern slavery and trafficking is going to get you more than a key of gear.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
    theinediblebulk likes this.
  3. JonMc

    JonMc Striker

    Apart from dismantling six thousand 'plantations' run by criminal gangs in 2015 feeding the 'legal' market. Criminal gangs, I imagine were never in the thoughts of those who passed the laws 1n 1976. It was never intended that cannabis be fully legalized in the Netherlands. This is an admission that they got it wrong.

    Even according to the supporters of the bill...

     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  4. GK

    GK Striker

    Nothing unfortunately

    You're just ignoring facts and making up scenarios in your head and trying to argue a case for them

    Criminal gangs were always involved. Obviously.

    Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  5. Disagree away mate. It happened. There was movement out of drugs and into people trafficking as the sentencing is lighter. Max sentence for people trafficking is 14 years

    Whereas for drugs it's; "Where the operation is on the most serious and commercial scale, involving a quantity of drugs significantly higher than category 1, sentences of 20 years and above may be appropriate, depending on the role of the offender"

    https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u..._Offences_Definitive_Guideline_final_web1.pdf

    So think of two commercial operations, high volume, both run by a person with previous convictions in that area, one drugs one slavery. Human trafficker is max getting 14 years. The drug dealer, well that person can get a significantly higher sentence. 20 years or more according to that.

    I asked earlier about your statement about Holland and it's "drug policies are so pointless" and asked you to clarify that, as it doesn't reconcile with the documented success they had in of getting on top of the heroin problem they had in the 70's. I guess if you can't I can put that statement down to you talking bollocks. That's fair imo.
     
  6. gavinmcant

    gavinmcant Winger

    I know the sentencing guidelines but to get top whack for importation it has to be proved that there's a degree of sophistication , ante cedence and organisation. Effectively it's something you do a lot which involves massive financial benefit.
     
  7. JonMc

    JonMc Striker

    I did.

    They didn't just relax police policy towards prosecutions against cannabis users, they made it into a cottage industry that got out of control and that is an admission of the failure of creating a mass market.

    County Durham police have in effect negated that by openly stating that they aren't coming after people who have a little grow tent in the back bedroom so that they can get on with the more serious crimes including serious drug crime. So what's the difference? Get growing in the DH area and no one will stop you...as long as you don't take the piss. They just aren't creating an industry, that's all.
     
  8. Which was the example I gave. Leading role players moved industries, so established drug channels just became channels for running people instead. And they did that as you get max 14 years, not the possibility of 20 and beyond. It's a simple and practical move to make tbh.


    You didn't. You're still ignoring the fact that they had a success with heroin prescriptions. Why is that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2017
  9. JonMc

    JonMc Striker

    I'm saying they didn't need to crate a new problem with criminal cultivation of cannabis to put more recourses into tackling heroin. Durham constabulary have done much the same thing without putting weed on sale on the high street.
     
  10. I'm Spartacus

    I'm Spartacus Winger

    That was me really. The thing is people love getting fucked up. There's evidence we've done it for millennia.
    So are you saying the criminal element would accept defeat if heroin was legalised and not try and recoup their losses pushing something else massively addictive and illegal?
     
  11. No, you're ignoring the social impact that prescription heroin caused. Why?
     
  12. gavinmcant

    gavinmcant Winger

    It isn't just trafficking though, it goes hand in hand with money laundering and slavery. Trust me, today you're getting maximum tariffs for thise offences. In terms of importation, without it being associated to traffickingor slavery it barely gets a look in.
     
  13. I don't trust anyone so no, I won't trust what your saying thanks. I have plenty of personal experience to draw upon when it comes to sentencing and what jail time people get, especially when it comes to drugs, so I'll stick with that. Max tariffs aren't dished out willy nilly either, got to be some going for you to get them. Look at that Rooney lot, kept slaves for 26 years, conned old people out of loads of cash, and the max given for the two lads running the show was 15 years. The old man got 10 and everyone else got 7. hardly max and this is way off the thread topic tbh.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...colnshire-jailed-chilling-slavery-case-rooney
     
  14. There's a built in control group that get stuck with traditional subutex then. :p
     
  15. HANDSOME_DAN

    HANDSOME_DAN Full Back

    i think the majority of smack heads are a lost cause who are a plague on society when they are on the gear, tax and crime. bullet to the head, two chances to get sorted or out.
     
  16. Sounds like something out of the jihadis handbook. Glad you aren't in charge.
     
  17. HANDSOME_DAN

    HANDSOME_DAN Full Back

    glad you arent either ;)
     
    Some Random Guy likes this.
  18. "Tough on crime, pragmatic about the causes of crime"

    Vote SRG.
     
    Frijj likes this.
  19. HANDSOME_DAN

    HANDSOME_DAN Full Back

    and if the causers of crime arent serious about getting rehabilitated....then lets get pragmatic with solutions ;) i aint paying for them to take the easy road when im working 50 hours a week;)
     
  20. You're already paying for the easy road. The easy costs us about 13 billion a year in crime and disorder alone.
     

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