Battle of the Somme.

Tire said:
Hmmm - that last bit doesn’t sound right based on the family tales. He joined up as part of a recruitment drive ( I assume as the war was on) ... and had to lie about his age as he was over 40.

So if he joined up in 1915/1916 that would have meant he was born early 1870s.

I’ve asked my cousin to check with my uncle to see if he knows any more.

There were (at least) 2 Thomas Sandersons in the Tyneside Scottish that died in ww1, based on the family tradition that he died on the first day of the Somme I’m pretty sure this is the right one though.
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If you PM me I can send you a copy of the Attestation form for Thomas Sanderson 1541
There also appears to be a Thomas Sanderson from Newcastle who was a bombardier in the RFA but doesn't appear to have been killed in 1916
 


Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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An excellent account.
My grandfather also volunteered at the age of 31, he didn't have to and had two young sons but felt it was his duty. He joined the 18th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers in 1915 and also trained at Salisbury Plain. They arrived in France on 8 Jan 1916 and he was killed exactly a year later on 8 Jan 1917 by one of our own shells while he was digging a trench near Bois Grenier which is not far from Armentiers.

We visited his grave a few years ago which is in a small graveyard at Bois Grenier, it was an emotional but amazing experience.
 
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monkeytassle said:
One man died on average every 4.4 seconds.
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"Like" seems inappropriate, but that's a horrifying stat. RIP to all.
Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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Fantastic post marra, and great respect to your great grandad and all the other heroes.

When I'm next back in UK, will get myself down to the battlefields of France.
 
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Kennington Kid said:
The Somme offensive was mounted in the most part to take German troops away from the attack on Verdun, it was feared that the French Army was in danger of collapse and we attacked in the Somme to help relieve that pressure.
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It was indeed . As horrible and ill executed as the Somme was Verdun was one step up again . Both sides pouring men into a literal meat grinder of artillery. 2 million shells in the opening bombardment between 40 and 60 million shells exchanged all told . Pieces of shrapnel as big as a coffee table taking down trees let alone men .
Does it make a difference how you're to be killed ? I dunno it was all ridiculous .
 
Billy Fish said:
If you PM me I can send you a copy of the Attestation form for Thomas Sanderson 1541
There also appears to be a Thomas Sanderson from Newcastle who was a bombardier in the RFA but doesn't appear to have been killed in 1916
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Cheers mate - PM sent - of course, I've just twigged, the point was he LIED about his age to get in - so of course the d.o.b. in any records may be wrong
 
The Battle of the Somme one the most vivid descriptions of a "bloodbath" there could ever be.

As we see by this thread, there are many people who lost relatives in this conflict. Myself included.

I do not feel World War I was a fight for freedom against good and evil, unlike WW2. It was the horrific consequences of mutual unrestrained nationalism and geopolitical rivalry from competing empires.

A needless, savage and brutal war.
 
MrOompapa said:
The Battle of the Somme one the most vivid descriptions of a "bloodbath" there could ever be.

As we see by this thread, there are many people who lost relatives in this conflict. Myself included.

I do not feel World War I was a fight for freedom against good and evil, unlike WW2. It was the horrific consequences of mutual unrestrained nationalism and geopolitical rivalry from competing empires.

A needless, savage and brutal war.
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Made a lot of people rich and a lot of people dead... guess who got rich
 
MrOompapa said:
The Battle of the Somme one the most vivid descriptions of a "bloodbath" there could ever be.

As we see by this thread, there are many people who lost relatives in this conflict. Myself included.

I do not feel World War I was a fight for freedom against good and evil, unlike WW2. It was the horrific consequences of mutual unrestrained nationalism and geopolitical rivalry from competing empires.

A needless, savage and brutal war.
Click to expand...
Lest we forget indeed!

Yep - I thought about posting something along those lines earlier in the thread in reference to somebody saying we owe the men who gave their lives a big thank you. I didn't though as it would be very crass of me to disagree with that. However, as much as I love being an Englishman and respect the actions of those that served, you have to wonder whether it's the likes of me and you who owe those men our thanks. It was no more our war than it was theirs. Admirably though they did their duty, and shaped the world and the country we live in, but for what cause? A terrible war and a tragic loss of life.

I hope that comes across the right way - to a man they deserve reverence.

That fella in me avatar summed it up well enough:

The First World War, boys
It came and it went
The reason for fighting
I never did get
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.
 
I’m choosing my words carefully and any offence is not intended.

I feel one of the great tragedies of WW1 was the peace treaty.

It was a recipe for a further conflict as it was such a french driven, punishing peace.

And we know what happened next.

As I get older I cannot see any good in warfare and can’t begin to imagine the pain felt by millions of people around the world hit by the consequences of conflict.
 
Big Jeff said:
I’m choosing my words carefully and any offence is not intended.

I feel one of the great tragedies of WW1 was the peace treaty.

It was a recipe for a further conflict as it was such a french driven, punishing peace.

And we know what happened next.

As I get older I cannot see any good in warfare and can’t begin to imagine the pain felt by millions of people around the world hit by the consequences of conflict.
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I read a book a few years back and the words used were along the lines of world war 1 never ended and world war 2 never began. It was the same war but with a lull of 21 years. Certainly the treaty caused a lot of the reasons for Ww2 but the Germans had so many chanced to stop Hitler getting into power and blew them all.
 
Billy Fish said:
Info sent on email, let me know if you've any queries with it.
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Thanks - it hasn't come through yet - but tbh I don't sync my junk mail folder to my phone - I'll check that tonight when I'm on my PC and see if it has gone there by mistake.

The Tyneside Scottish book has arrived - very quick skim - looks very interesting - will probably save it til I have a week off to properly go through it
 
Tire said:
Thanks - it hasn't come through yet - but tbh I don't sync my junk mail folder to my phone - I'll check that tonight when I'm on my PC and see if it has gone there by mistake.

The Tyneside Scottish book has arrived - very quick skim - looks very interesting - will probably save it til I have a week off to properly go through it
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It's a great read and covers every aspect of the NF from formation to the end of the war.
 
Iballistic George said:
I read a book a few years back and the words used were along the lines of world war 1 never ended and world war 2 never began. It was the same war but with a lull of 21 years. Certainly the treaty caused a lot of the reasons for Ww2 but the Germans had so many chanced to stop Hitler getting into power and blew them all.
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That's an interesting perspective. I remember reading something similar at school, which stated that the biggest cause of WW2 was WW1.

No-one in my family was involved in armed combat, but at least one died down the pit during the First World War.

Absolute tragedy, the lot of it. Millions dead and millions more lives ruined. I've been to some of the war cemeteries and memorials in northern France and I find it moving every time. RIP lads and lasses.
 
Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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What a fantastic post. Thanks for sharing.
 

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