Battle of the Somme.

He was religious and very set in his ways. During the planning for the offensive at serre in the North the Germans knew that was the start of the battlefield limits. There weren't any movements north and all ammo dumps and guns stopped there.

They only planned for 14000 casualties at most and that's why the aid posts and clearing stations couldn't cope.

During the morning of the 1st commanders were reluctant to tell him the full truth of what was happening as they didn't want to be sent to the front or have their careers stopped so they flowered things up when reporting eg saying men were seen in 2nd and 3rd line trenches when they couldn't even get thru the first line of wire.
 


Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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One of the best posts I've read on here.


I drove back from the alps and stopped off at verdun. Not afraid to admit I sat down and cried. Never seen anything like it. Lines of graves perfect in every direction.
 
monkeytassle said:
One of the best posts I've read on here.


I drove back from the alps and stopped off at verdun. Not afraid to admit I sat down and cried. Never seen anything like it. Lines of graves perfect in every direction.
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Verdun is a must visit if you are interested in the great war. Visit the fort duamomont (spelling is a bit hard) if you get the chance to go there. Fascinating little place ...and a few nice bars by the Riverside.
 
My maternal grandad was near a a place called Bray on the south of the line on the first day of the Somme at 16 year old (joined up at 15). Royal Field Artillery 151 (Howitzer) Brigade. I only found this out in the last few months like.

His brigade was broken up and used to supplement other depleted ones a few weeks later and he was shipped off Mesopotamia.

All he got for two years of fighting was a couple of generic WWI medals. Went in the RFA a boy and came out a man.

https://imgur.com/pxceyHN
 
monkeytassle said:
One of the best posts I've read on here.


I drove back from the alps and stopped off at verdun. Not afraid to admit I sat down and cried. Never seen anything like it. Lines of graves perfect in every direction.
Click to expand...
The Somme offensive was mounted in the most part to take German troops away from the attack on Verdun, it was feared that the French Army was in danger of collapse and we attacked in the Somme to help relieve that pressure.
 
Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
Click to expand...
Thanks for sharing mate
 
Iballistic George said:
There's a book by Graham Stewart and John sheen called tyneside scottish. It's a really good book tracing the NF through the war. It'll set you back about 20 quid but it's well worth it. At the back it lists all those that fell their name rank next of kin and where their address was at the time of joining up. It has the story of how they formed pics of training and pics from the trenches. There's a couple which show the area around where my great grandad fell and the field is littered with the bodies of the fallen. It's a shocking photo to actually see the level of the massacre.
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@Tire
I mentioned on another thread about a book called "Forgotten Voices of the Somme".
It's various people's accounts from joining up to going home, but focused mainly on the battle.
It includes one bloke's account from Easington Lane.
Incredible stuff.
I remember one soldier describing a shell blowing them away.
It was something like( I'm paraphrasing)
"There was a group of soldiers in front of me, then it was like a giant invisible hand just swept them away".
 
Paddy O'Dors said:
My maternal grandad was near a a place called Bray on the south of the line on the first day of the Somme at 16 year old (joined up at 15). Royal Field Artillery 151 (Howitzer) Brigade. I only found this out in the last few months like.

His brigade was broken up and used to supplement other depleted ones a few weeks later and he was shipped off Mesopotamia.

All he got for two years of fighting was a couple of generic WWI medals. Went in the RFA a boy and came out a man.

https://imgur.com/pxceyHN
Click to expand...

Slightly off topic,
I would have loved to have been able to talk to my grandad (from Fordfield Rd), about it, he had a stroke when I was 9.

He was in WW2, building advance airfields, as the Germans were retreating.
My dad told me a bit about him.

Anyway, he gave his medals away to his grandkids, he asked me which one I wanted.
I picked the one that was the WW2 campaign medal (I had nee idea).
When I asked him how he got it, I always remember his answer.

It was "Playing marbles on Normandy Beach".
 
phillips10 said:
Correct, and they still had the bollocks to walk into it.

Absolute heroes every one of them.
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I appreciate what you're saying and I get the sentiment but it's worth remembering that they had no choice. Some won't have felt brave or heroic. They'd have been scared young boys shitting themselves and completely traumatised at the prospect of what they were about to face. In a way describing them as brave almost detracts from the crimes that General Haig committed against them. To think of them as warriors who were trained to kill and willing to do what it takes to defend their country makes their deaths somehow easier to stomach. The reality is that a lot of them were crying for their mothers and paralysed with fear being dragged across no man's land by their comrades and superiors.
 
Iballistic George said:
I've got a copy of a German trench map from newfoundland Park and it shows the machine gun positions their arc of fire and effective distance. They didn't fire direct opposite towards the tommies they fired their arc offset and relied on the gun nearest them to create the crossfire which created maximum casualties. The usual fire rate for a machine gun was approx 2000 per day. Official reports say some guns were firing 40,000 rounds that day. They had to pee into the coolant tins to keep the guns firing as they ran out of water. Some even stopped firing when they saw the suffering they were causing and allowed wounded men to return back to the trench. Some had a blood lust after being shelled for 7 days continuously and wanted to cause as much pain as they could. They were shooting wounded men caught up on the wire.
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Those poor Newfoundlanders never even go out into no mans land. They were cut down in their hundreds climbing out of and over their own trench system.
Kennington Kid said:
I defy anyone to visit Thiepval or any of the many smaller war cementries and read the names, ages, and dates they died and not get a lump in the throat and dampness in the eyes. Been a few times and it never does not make you think.

Ironically my maternal grandad was a professional soldier before the war and never left India between 1914-18, two of his brothers enlisted and perished in Flanders.
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It`s a deeply moving place to visit along the Somme front line. Seeing the Lochnagar crater, the places where men had to walk into almost certain death and then the masses of graves being the result. Absolutely tragic.
 
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El Oso said:
@Tire
I mentioned on another thread about a book called "Forgotten Voices of the Somme".
It's various people's accounts from joining up to going home, but focused mainly on the battle.
It includes one bloke's account from Easington Lane.
Incredible stuff.
I remember one soldier describing a shell blowing them away.
It was something like( I'm paraphrasing)
"There was a group of soldiers in front of me, then it was like a giant invisible hand just swept them away".
Click to expand...

Thank you - I have added it to my amazon wish list, I’ll pick it up after I have finished the Tyneside Scottish one.

The daft thing is my mam had dozens of stories passed down to her, but of course I never took the opportunity to go through them properly with her and, unfortunately, that opportunity has now long gone.

Tbh, although we always make an act of remembrance in November for him I have never looked into it. This thread has got me interested.
 
Tire said:
In fact this thread has prompted me to go and check - I knew his name was on the Roll of Honour in Edinburgh Castle - turns out they've got that fully online now, and his death is recorded there:

1st July 1916: Pte Thomas Sanderson, Service Number: 21/1541

Thanks for this - see above - found his name on the Scottish National War Memorial website - once they are back post COVID I'm going to get a print out to keep in the family records
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He's on the Commonwealth War Graves site

Private Thomas Sanderson | War Casualty Details 811155 | CWGC

Private Thomas Sanderson | War Casualty Details | CWGC
www.cwgc.org www.cwgc.org
 
Tire said:
Wow! That is amazing- thanks for that
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Tried to find his military records on the Ancestry site but unfortunately can't see them there, a lot got destroyed by fire / flood during the blitz in WW2, it's a shame cos they can give you a real feel for the person with the detail you get off them. There's a few other NE Thomas Sandersons but none that match
Billy Fish said:
Tried to find his military records on the Ancestry site but unfortunately can't see them there, a lot got destroyed by fire / flood during the blitz in WW2, it's a shame cos they can give you a real feel for the person with the detail you get off them. There's a few other NE Thomas Sandersons but none that match
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I tell a lie , he's on the register of soldiers effects, his widow Annie received the princely sum of two pounds three shillings and one pence in June 1917 and a further £6 in September 19. Life was cheap wasn't it. He also on the medals roll, Annie will have received two medals for him , The Victory Medal and the British War Medal
Billy Fish said:
Tried to find his military records on the Ancestry site but unfortunately can't see them there, a lot got destroyed by fire / flood during the blitz in WW2, it's a shame cos they can give you a real feel for the person with the detail you get off them. There's a few other NE Thomas Sandersons but none that match

I tell a lie , he's on the register of soldiers effects, his widow Annie received the princely sum of two pounds three shillings and one pence in June 1917 and a further £6 in September 19. Life was cheap wasn't it. He also on the medals roll, Annie will have received two medals for him , The Victory Medal and the British War Medal
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I tell another lie, his pension ledger is available but not on the standard Ancestry site it's on Fold3 site which I'm not registered on but you can do a free 7 day trial (card details required) The details to find it of you go on are

Name:Thomas Sanderson
Gender:Male
Record Type:Death
Military Service Region:Northern, England
Service Number:1541
Corps, Regiment or Unit:Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
Title:PRC Ledgers
Description:Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number:2/W/106
Actually I tell more lies it looks like his service record is on Ancestry, born in 1884 and enlisted in 1905 into the Northumberland fusiliers? The document is badly damaged and difficult to read
 
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Billy Fish said:
Tried to find his military records on the Ancestry site but unfortunately can't see them there, a lot got destroyed by fire / flood during the blitz in WW2, it's a shame cos they can give you a real feel for the person with the detail you get off them. There's a few other NE Thomas Sandersons but none that match

I tell a lie , he's on the register of soldiers effects, his widow Annie received the princely sum of two pounds three shillings and one pence in June 1917 and a further £6 in September 19. Life was cheap wasn't it. He also on the medals roll, Annie will have received two medals for him , The Victory Medal and the British War Medal

I tell another lie, his pension ledger is available but not on the standard Ancestry site it's on Fold3 site which I'm not registered on but you can do a free 7 day trial (card details required) The details to find it of you go on are

Name:Thomas Sanderson
Gender:Male
Record Type:Death
Military Service Region:Northern, England
Service Number:1541
Corps, Regiment or Unit:Royal Northumberland Fusiliers
Title:PRC Ledgers
Description:Pension Record Ledger
Reference Number:2/W/106
Actually I tell more lies it looks like his service record is on Ancestry, born in 1884 and enlisted in 1905 into the Northumberland fusiliers? The document is badly damaged and difficult to read
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Hmmm - that last bit doesn’t sound right based on the family tales. He joined up as part of a recruitment drive ( I assume as the war was on) ... and had to lie about his age as he was over 40.

So if he joined up in 1915/1916 that would have meant he was born early 1870s.

I’ve asked my cousin to check with my uncle to see if he knows any more.

There were (at least) 2 Thomas Sandersons in the Tyneside Scottish that died in ww1, based on the family tradition that he died on the first day of the Somme I’m pretty sure this is the right one though.
 
sambantam82 said:
I appreciate what you're saying and I get the sentiment but it's worth remembering that they had no choice. Some won't have felt brave or heroic. They'd have been scared young boys shitting themselves and completely traumatised at the prospect of what they were about to face. In a way describing them as brave almost detracts from the crimes that General Haig committed against them. To think of them as warriors who were trained to kill and willing to do what it takes to defend their country makes their deaths somehow easier to stomach. The reality is that a lot of them were crying for their mothers and paralysed with fear being dragged across no man's land by their comrades and superiors.
Click to expand...
No
They were brave
 

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