Battle of the Somme.

Tire said:
Thanks again :) I've just ordered it from amazon - there have always been tales passed around so will be interesting to put some historical context around it.
Apparently he lied about his age to join up as, at the time, he was too old (over 40) but wanted to go with his pals from Birtley
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It's a fascinating story of the pals battalions which in theory would have worked but once the battle started it effectively ended the pals battalions in one go.
 


Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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Class post marra.

Out of interest, do you know what it was that drove your Great Grandad to serve?
 
Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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A poignant story mate, I wish you well with your research. I wanted to mention that, about a week ago, I caught a documentary which featured the Fusiliers basic training at Alnwick and third train journey through England for further training, then into France. It was part of a series about train journeys, presented and narrated by Chris Tarrant.
 
Bakerlooline said:
A poignant story mate, I wish you well with your research. I wanted to mention that, about a week ago, I caught a documentary which featured the Fusiliers basic training at Alnwick and third train journey through England for further training, then into France. It was part of a series about train journeys, presented and narrated by Chris Tarrant.
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Yeah seen that. He was following the story of the Northumberland Fusiliers.
 
Iballistic George said:
Was just the feeling of being patriotic and doing the right thing. Was a different time back then you felt you had to do your bit. being a miner I suppose he couldn't see that he was doing enough.
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The daft bugger! Fair play to him - a tragic but proud legacy all the same.

It's interesting to learn of men like yours and @Tire's great grandads. There's a tendency to think of the young men that served back then as being teenagers or in their early twenties - conscripts with less family ties - rather than employed family men in their mid 30s and 40s.
 
chriswallace85 said:
The daft bugger! Fair play to him - a tragic but proud legacy all the same.

It's interesting to learn of men like yours and @Tire's great grandads. There's a tendency to think of the young men that served back then as being teenagers or in their early twenties - conscripts with less family ties - rather than employed family men in their mid 30s and 40s.
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I know its mad. He had a wife and kids too so at the age of 36 and to work down the pit which was still a noble job to go and join up must have been heart breaking for his family. Honour and duty came first I guess. At the time he joined up the DLI wasn't recruiting another battalion as far as I can research so that's why he went to join the Tyneside Scottish. He was from Seaham and deffo wasnt Scottish but his friends wanted to join up so he went with them.
 
Stopped in Albert back in June 1998 on the way back to Calais. Got up early to avoid the farmers "go slow" and took what I thought was a short cut. Turned out to be the road to Thiepval from the main Albert- Bapaume road. Got to the memorial just at daybreak. Stood looking over the fields towards Beaumont-Hamel there was a mist coming up from what I think was the Ancre valley, don't know how to put into words what I was feeling, but I'm sure there was more than me and the wife there that morning. I've since been back lots of times and still find it difficult to take in the scale of what happened.
 
I defy anyone to visit Thiepval or any of the many smaller war cementries and read the names, ages, and dates they died and not get a lump in the throat and dampness in the eyes. Been a few times and it never does not make you think.

Ironically my maternal grandad was a professional soldier before the war and never left India between 1914-18, two of his brothers enlisted and perished in Flanders.
 
For anyone that has seen the film 1917; the scene where they go over the top (no mans land had been abandoned) they have to traverse through about 4 different layers of barbed wire at least 1 meter thick. Impossible to get through without finding decent gaps.
Now imagine it’s during a wave of the Somme, you either have to stop and try and cut through the wire while machine guns mow you down, or you find a gap and the entire wave is bottle necked behind it. Truly horrific. Appalling tactics and basically blokes sent to die to use up enemy ammo. No wonder so many brave blokes sadly died.
 
nelford_safc said:
For anyone that has seen the film 1917; the scene where they go over the top (no mans land had been abandoned) they have to traverse through about 4 different layers of barbed wire at least 1 meter thick. Impossible to get through without finding decent gaps.
Now imagine it’s during a wave of the Somme, you either have to stop and try and cut through the wire while machine guns mow you down, or you find a gap and the entire wave is bottle necked behind it. Truly horrific. Appalling tactics and basically blokes sent to die to use up enemy ammo. No wonder so many brave blokes sadly died.
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You're right about the barbed wire and having to navigate it. The night before they would cut they're own wire to allow soldiers to get thru in the attack. They certainly didn't just throw men into attack just to use German ammunition up. Trench warfare was new and they didn't know how best to fight a static war. They were learning as they went. It was a different time and once a decision was made it was considered impossible to go back on it as you would lose face. Stuff upper lip and all that. Rawlinson actually wanted a fire and manoeuvre type attack but was told by haig it was considered too adventurous a plan.
The worst place in the line was behind La Boiselle and newfoundland Park. They had to negotiate their own open land in between reserve trenches just to get to their front line trench because casualties were blocking all routes thru the trench system. Hundreds upon hundreds died without even getting to their own front line.
 
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Its the scale of it and the futility of the action (I don't mean any offence by using the word futility) I've served my country, been in a few ropy situations. I've spent years working with the forces, and In a war I'd serve, I know there is no glory in it. War is terrible, its shit and even if you survive it breaks you mentally. However fighting with tactics, hope and for an achievable goal. Or backs to the walls 'fuck it' I can understand, but stand up and walk into a storm of machine gun fire.... chilling.
 
My family has at least four at Thiepval, two killed in July 1916, one killed in september 1916 (DLI) and one in 1917 during the Ancre operations.

Hoping to do one of those battlefield tours next year if things have returned to normality.

Kennington Kid said:
I defy anyone to visit Thiepval or any of the many smaller war cementries and read the names, ages, and dates they died and not get a lump in the throat and dampness in the eyes. Been a few times and it never does not make you think.

Ironically my maternal grandad was a professional soldier before the war and never left India between 1914-18, two of his brothers enlisted and perished in Flanders.
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It does happen. My maternal grandfather was in the Northumberland Fusiliers in the Second World War, somehow he never left England!
 
Iballistic George said:
My great grandad was with the 22btn Northumberland Fusiliers. He was a miner and aged 36 joined up in 1915. He didn't have to go but he lied about his job so he could join up. They did their training at Alnwick then to Salisbury then into northern France for some trench training. After a few weeks in France they went by rail to Amiens. From there they marched the 15 miles or so to the town of Albert and from Albert they marched the last 2 miles to the trenches at La Boiselle. He went over the top at 0730 between the the glory hole and the new crater blown at the mine dug from lochnaggar Street trench. Its only about 150 metres and I can't be sure exactly at which point he crossed. No man's land was only between 50 and 150 yards at this point and they had a relatively short walk.

Their btn has reasonable success with some men being seen in the second German lines.

We don't know where he fell or if he was killed instantly or wounded and bled out on the battlefield or was shelled by the Germans where he might have been sheltering in a shell hole. All we know is that his body was never recovered.

The next morning at roll call out of a battalion of 1600 men only 155 officers NCOs and other ranks reported. They suffered one of the biggest losses that morning.

I went to France last year to retrace his steps. People talk about eerie feelings about the place and its 100% true. Using old trench maps and GPS and overlays I stood on the same line where his trench would have been and walked up to where the German line was. It was a cold windy cloudy type of day late September. When I started walking across the field which is now a beetroot field the wind died instantly which really spooked me. The clouds drifted apart and the sun came out. You could hear the birds. My gf said at the time she feels all goose bumpy. When we got to the road where the German line was it went cloudy again and windy and it was really really strange.

I also went to newfoundland Park which is well worth a visit and they had awful at their point of the line. One petrified tree remains in nml and its amazing its survived all the shelling and shooting that day.


I'll be going back this year to do some more investigating once all this vitus stuff disappears. Sorry its a bit long but it's an emotional subject for me.
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Great read. Thanks.
 
My grandfather was in the 20th DLI wearside pals , from 15 to 19 fought in France and Italy, trying to trace his time in Italy so one year I can follow in his footsteps, he was in his 20s married with a child when he joined up, he died when I was about 9 and all i can remember is a kind old man, wish i could talk to him now as I can remember asking him about the war and I was too young to understand .
 
DavyC said:
Its the scale of it and the futility of the action (I don't mean any offence by using the word futility) I've served my country, been in a few ropy situations. I've spent years working with the forces, and In a war I'd serve, I know there is no glory in it. War is terrible, its shit and even if you survive it breaks you mentally. However fighting with tactics, hope and for an achievable goal. Or backs to the walls 'fuck it' I can understand, but stand up and walk into a storm of machine gun fire.... chilling.
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My paternal grandfather was in the RN but after the battle of Jutland was transferred to the army into the machine gun corps, he never ever spoke about his time during the war, not even to my dad (and he served in the RN during WW2). Only found out after I did a bit of family history tracing and got a copy of his war record but by then he had already passed. It can't have been any fun to be behind a machine gun either, although better than in front.
 
Horrific. Can’t imagine what was going through their mind. I think I’m right in thinking that Haig was extremely religious and he was that convinced that the men were going to heaven so the regard for life wasn’t the same.
 

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