Bardsley was injured in training


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Errrr.....I realise that this is getting into semantics and various comments are not meant to be absolutes, but I quote (you):

"I just don't rate defenders who haven't got a grasp on the basics of defending".

Now, I suppose the "basics" could be the second or third thng about defending........

I know how to speak a little French, but I don't consider myself to have a grasp on it. I am not a master of it. Phil Bardsley is the same with defending. I am sure he knows how to do it, but he just can't master it sufficiently to do it well enough for this level or often enough.

In absolutely no way was that sentence saying that he doesn't know how to defend.
 
Stoke don't have full backs, full stop. They play with four centre backs. Ultimately, I think we'll have a similar sort of line up across the back (as you pointed out IIRC).

The other full backs you point out are deliberately selected as quite poor ones, imo. For example, there are others who would improve our side who play for sides outside of the top 6. Baines, Warnock, Luke Young, Martin Olsson, Angel Rangel etc

They do often you are right but Wilkinson plays a fair few games at right back and that Wilson plays often at left back. Elmo gave him a hard time at our place.
 
They do often you are right but Wilkinson plays a fair few games at right back and that Wilson plays often at left back. Elmo gave him a hard time at our place.

Wilkinson is a shit Bardsley, I'll give you that :lol:

Wilson is a centre back, who is right footed, playing at left back. He's sho shit, not only did Elmo give him a torrid time, so did Obertan. Either way, they like the four big out and out defenders across the back four, with out and out wingers getting in behind defences.
 
I know how to speak a little French, but I don't consider myself to have a grasp on it. I am not a master of it. Phil Bardsley is the same with defending. I am sure he knows how to do it, but he just can't master it sufficiently to do it well enough for this level or often enough.

In absolutely no way was that sentence saying that he doesn't know how to defend.
Bollox :lol: To speak a little French you have to grasp the basics.....
 
Wilkinson is a shit Bardsley, I'll give you that :lol:

Wilson is a centre back, who is right footed, playing at left back. He's sho shit, not only did Elmo give him a torrid time, so did Obertan. Either way, they like the four big out and out defenders across the back four, with out and out wingers getting in behind defences.

I've never known what Wilson's position is - he played centre midfield for Pompey against us at one stage and had played at centre half and full back. I take your point about Stoke and 4 centre backs - Woodgate played RB on Saturday for example and also that Bardsley shouldnt be in our team regularly if we want to get any better.
 
I've never known what Wilson's position is - he played centre midfield for Pompey against us at one stage and had played at centre half and full back. I take your point about Stoke and 4 centre backs - Woodgate played RB on Saturday for example and also that Bardsley shouldnt be in our team regularly if we want to get any better.

With the players we have, we need to have mobile full backs, so I'd be tempted to use Bardsley at right back and Richardson left back. In the long term, I don't think either will play in those positions and MON will go for four big(ish) lads. I'm sure it was you suggesting Brown and O'Shea as full backs. If we had out and out wingers on either side, I reckon that would be a decent shout.
 
With the players we have, we need to have mobile full backs, so I'd be tempted to use Bardsley at right back and Richardson left back. In the long term, I don't think either will play in those positions and MON will go for four big(ish) lads. I'm sure it was you suggesting Brown and O'Shea as full backs. If we had out and out wingers on either side, I reckon that would be a decent shout.

I wasnt really recommending O'Shea and Brown as full backs just suggesting that it was a route O'Neill may well go down given his history. Personally I really like Richardson full back and wish the rest of the team had enough pace in it to allow him to play there all of the time.
 
I wasnt really recommending O'Shea and Brown as full backs just suggesting that it was a route O'Neill may well go down given his history. Personally I really like Richardson full back and wish the rest of the team had enough pace in it to allow him to play there all of the time.

Tbh, even with our chronic lack of pace elsewhere, I'd still use Richardson at left back for now. Our best bet is using mobile full backs who can overlap our pedestrian midfield. Richardson gets forward to better effect from deep than he does playing in advanced positions. With that in mind, use Bendtner and Wickham up front and get the ball into the box. I'd go with Bardsley ahead of O'Shea at right back for now, too. His positioning isn't great but he sometimes causes problems for the opposition going forward. Larsson hasn't got the pace or skill to do it on his own and needs someone opening space up for him, overlapping.
 
Course you don't, man. May be I am just more thorough than you and we are disagreeing on how basic the basics of anything are ;)

:lol: Aye, righto, if you say so :lol: - I'll let you off with that as I'm more into the meaning rather than the words (on a message board at least) and there's lot of good footy debate to be had (not least from your-good-self).

With the players we have, we need to have mobile full backs, so I'd be tempted to use Bardsley at right back and Richardson left back. In the long term, I don't think either will play in those positions and MON will go for four big(ish) lads. I'm sure it was you suggesting Brown and O'Shea as full backs. If we had out and out wingers on either side, I reckon that would be a decent shout.

Trouble with that is the team takes on a concertina effect with no overlapping and relies too much on the wingers for width. What tends to happed then is you play like Stoke - hoof! I much prefer a more fluid game, which needs at least one overlapping full back. It's a shame McClean isn't right-footed and Larsson left0footed as we'd have a far more balanced team with the back four we currently have (assuming Richardson replaces Bardslay at LB). For me, the team set up is all about complimenting pairs - down the lines AND across the park.
 
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I'm no big Phil Bardsley fan but he is nowhere near as bad, as Fishpaste makes him out to be. He is a decent squad player for a lower half Premier League team, which is what we are.
 
I'm no big Phil Bardsley fan but he is nowhere near as bad, as Fishpaste makes him out to be. He is a decent squad player for a lower half Premier League team, which is what we are.

Yeah but if we want to move away from that, he isnt up to it, along with others.
 
I'm no big Phil Bardsley fan but he is nowhere near as bad, as Fishpaste makes him out to be. He is a decent squad player for a lower half Premier League team, which is what we are.

The problem is that he isn't used as a squad player for us. He has a much bigger role than that. As long as that remains the case, he'll always drag us down to his level.

If he was just a squad player I wouldn't have any issue with him at all really and would happily appreciate him for what he is. But as long as he is a first choice and has things like Player of the Year status bestowed upon him, he must be judged against that kind of a level.
 
I'm constantly in awe of the level of vitriol that some people show when posting about players on here. Whilst he has made errors in matches and has limitations, he has also made great tackles, won headers, scored goals for us, created chances for others to score and made goal saving interventions.

What tends to happen, especially when it's one of the less popular players under scrutiny (actually, scratch that, whenever ANY of our players are under scrutiny) is that irrationality surfaces in the form of the 'he's dogshite and can't kick / tackle / pass / read the game / create chances / shoot (delete as appropriate) post. I don't think I've seen a truly terrible player in the past few seasons. The worst players we have in our squad at the moment are bottom half of the Premier League standard.

I agree that bottom half of the Premier League shouldn't be our objective and that, longer term, his position will be in doubt, but, today, I'm happy for him or Rico or O'Shea or Colback to play LB as I think that they'll all do a half decent job and will bring differing benefits to our defence.

How do you feel about Colback at left back, longer term?
 
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I'm constantly in awe of the level of vitriol that some people show when posting about players on here. Whilst he has made errors in matches and has limitations, he has also made great tackles, won headers, scored goals for us, created chances for others to score and made goal saving interventions.

What tends to happen, especially when it's one of the less popular players under scrutiny (actually, scratch that, whenever ANY of our players are under scrutiny) is that irrationality surfaces in the form of the 'he's dogshite and can't kick / tackle / pass / read the game / create chances / shoot (delete as appropriate) post. I don't think I've seen a truly terrible player in the past few seasons. The worst players we have in our squad at the moment are bottom half of the Premier League standard.

I agree that bottom half of the Premier League shouldn't be our objective and that, longer term, his position will be in doubt, but, today, I'm happy for him or Rico or O'Shea or Colback to play LB as I think that they'll all do a half decent job and will bring differing benefits to our defence.

How do you feel about Colback at left back, longer term?

That isnt a bad shout, it could be a position for him. He'll never impose himself as a prem player in CM though
 
The problem is that he isn't used as a squad player for us. He has a much bigger role than that. As long as that remains the case, he'll always drag us down to his level.

If he was just a squad player I wouldn't have any issue with him at all really and would happily appreciate him for what he is. But as long as he is a first choice and has things like Player of the Year status bestowed upon him, he must be judged against that kind of a level.

He is getting games because we don't have anyone better at the club. Have you seen the full backs coming through in the reserves? I watched them play Liverpool the other week and the lad Marrs got tore apart even at that level and the left back Liddle was equally as bad.

It's not as easy as just saying get Bardsley out of the team, we have nobody better to come in, that's the situation we are in.
 
He is getting games because we don't have anyone better at the club. Have you seen the full backs coming through in the reserves? I watched them play Liverpool the other week and the lad Marrs got tore apart even at that level and the left back Liddle was equally as bad.

It's not as easy as just saying get Bardsley out of the team, we have nobody better to come in, that's the situation we are in.

Richardson.
 
Yeah but if we want to move away from that, he isnt up to it, along with others.

Well yes longer term I'd agree but we have to deal with what we have at present and at the moment we don't have any other full backs at the club better than Bardsley.

What is your solution short term then? It's all very well saying he is shite but another finding a solution without just throwing money(that we might not have) at it.

Richardson.

From the opening two games it seems O'Neill see's Richardson in a more forward role.
 
This level, that level.

Face it, we're a bottom half team at the minute and there's no better full backs in the bottom half.

He is our level.
 
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