Attenborough



The message is very important, but until Asian/African countries get their shit together it's like shouting at the wall.
When you say "get their shit together", do you mean "stay poor"?

We in the west got extremely rich by industrialising extremely quickly, and generally burning any fossil fuels we could find. Now we're going around lecturing people who are relatively very poor, but who understandably are envious of all our comfortable wealth, and telling them that there's a limit to how much humans are allowed to exploit the environment for material gain, so now that we've achieved the lofty heights of being able to feel thoroughly good about ourselves by recycling and eating organic veg at least once a week, can the rest of you please remain in abject poverty to save the planet. Thanks, the west.
 
When you say "get their shit together", do you mean "stay poor"?

We in the west got extremely rich by industrialising extremely quickly, and generally burning any fossil fuels we could find. Now we're going around lecturing people who are relatively very poor, but who understandably are envious of all our comfortable wealth, and telling them that there's a limit to how much humans are allowed to exploit the environment for material gain, so now that we've achieved the lofty heights of being able to feel thoroughly good about ourselves by recycling and eating organic veg at least once a week, can the rest of you please remain in abject poverty to save the planet. Thanks, the west.
Hard to argue with that tbh. However countries like China and Malaysia are not so poor these days.
 
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When you say "get their shit together", do you mean "stay poor"?

We in the west got extremely rich by industrialising extremely quickly, and generally burning any fossil fuels we could find. Now we're going around lecturing people who are relatively very poor, but who understandably are envious of all our comfortable wealth, and telling them that there's a limit to how much humans are allowed to exploit the environment for material gain, so now that we've achieved the lofty heights of being able to feel thoroughly good about ourselves by recycling and eating organic veg at least once a week, can the rest of you please remain in abject poverty to save the planet. Thanks, the west.

That's a very good post tbf.
 
Hard to argue with that tbh. However countries like China and Malaysia are not so poor these days.
Lots of poor people in those countries though (Properly poor, not our version). And in South America and Africa. And they aspire to all the luxurious stuff they see us having. I just can't see them listening to fantastically rich (from their perspective) westerners telling them that all the getting rich from exploiting the planet has been used up. By us.
 
Don't mind feeding everyone if there's plenty to go around, especially on an away day marra. I was brought up not learning not to waste food. Not very often my plate doesn't get cleared.
That's a canny few "nots" there like.

Lots of poor people in those countries though (Properly poor, not our version). And in South America and Africa. And they aspire to all the luxurious stuff they see us having. I just can't see them listening to fantastically rich (from their perspective) westerners telling them that all the getting rich from exploiting the planet has been used up. By us.
This is the problem. Unless we have a World Govt who can impose Global controls. Not going to happen.
 
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When you say "get their shit together", do you mean "stay poor"?

We in the west got extremely rich by industrialising extremely quickly, and generally burning any fossil fuels we could find. Now we're going around lecturing people who are relatively very poor, but who understandably are envious of all our comfortable wealth, and telling them that there's a limit to how much humans are allowed to exploit the environment for material gain, so now that we've achieved the lofty heights of being able to feel thoroughly good about ourselves by recycling and eating organic veg at least once a week, can the rest of you please remain in abject poverty to save the planet. Thanks, the west.

Fair point but to give the full picture ‘the west’ didn’t know the effects of industrialisation for the majority of the time we have been doing it (we have been far to slow to respond when we did) but does that mean the developing countries should start doing something they already know is damaging the planet? Can they not learn from our mistakes?
 
Fair point but to give the full picture ‘the west’ didn’t know the effects of industrialisation for the majority of the time we have been doing it (we have been far to slow to respond when we did) but does that mean the developing countries should start doing something they already know is damaging the planet? Can they not learn from our mistakes?
The vast majority of "us" haven't learnt a thing, mate (I include myself here). Don't see why "we" should expect "them" to.

They just want cars and hot running water and play stations and the ability to mooch around the house in shorts and t-shirt in winter.

I wouldn't fancy being the representative who has to go and tell them they can't have those things because WE KNOW BETTER.
 
The vast majority of "us" haven't learnt a thing, mate (I include myself here). Don't see why "we" should expect "them" to.

They just want cars and hot running water and play stations and the ability to mooch around the house in shorts and t-shirt in winter.

I wouldn't fancy being the representative who has to go and tell them they can't have those things because WE KNOW BETTER.


I agree with that, I meant the government level decisions such as coal power stations and deforestation rather than personal consumer level decisions. There is an impact from the latter to the former but governments can legislate better as a buffer. And yes, I think I’m a tree hugger for separating my recyclables and reusing carrier bags but can’t say hand on heart I have changed my lifestyle so I won’t be lecturing them either!
 
Humans will do nothing until it's too late.

We wont change. Just read some of the comments on other threads. We are a selfish set of bastards who will destroy this planet one way or the other in less than 100 years.
 
Humans will do nothing until it's too late.

We wont change. Just read some of the comments on other threads. We are a selfish set of bastards who will destroy this planet one way or the other in less than 100 years.

I fear you are right, unless we destroy ourselves? or a natural catastrophe destroys us?
 
Lots of poor people in those countries though (Properly poor, not our version). And in South America and Africa. And they aspire to all the luxurious stuff they see us having. I just can't see them listening to fantastically rich (from their perspective) westerners telling them that all the getting rich from exploiting the planet has been used up. By us.
Spot on, which is why we are royally fucked - there’s an element of schadenfreude in that those nations used to getting by with very little will probably adjust better once we do finally rape Mother Nature to death.
 
When you say "get their shit together", do you mean "stay poor"?

We in the west got extremely rich by industrialising extremely quickly, and generally burning any fossil fuels we could find. Now we're going around lecturing people who are relatively very poor, but who understandably are envious of all our comfortable wealth, and telling them that there's a limit to how much humans are allowed to exploit the environment for material gain, so now that we've achieved the lofty heights of being able to feel thoroughly good about ourselves by recycling and eating organic veg at least once a week, can the rest of you please remain in abject poverty to save the planet. Thanks, the west.
Mankind knows (should know) better now. What the west did a century or two ago was done in ignorance.
Developing countries don't have that excuse.
 
Mankind knows (should know) better now. What the west did a century or two ago was done in ignorance.
Developing countries don't have that excuse.
Aye, I can just imagine the British industrialists of the 1850s going, "Oh, wait, apparently all of us getting rich as fuck is going to knack up the planet. Let's all stick to candlelight, horseback and misery."
 
Definitely the Skype thing. Then as many holidays as possible by train. Europe has a great rail network, why not take the train to the south of Spain for summer hols.
Because it's quicker and cheaper to fly. That's the bottom line. On the bright side we won't need to go to Spain for warmth soon :lol:

The vast majority of "us" haven't learnt a thing, mate (I include myself here). Don't see why "we" should expect "them" to.

They just want cars and hot running water and play stations and the ability to mooch around the house in shorts and t-shirt in winter.

I wouldn't fancy being the representative who has to go and tell them they can't have those things because WE KNOW BETTER.
Tbf most people in developing countries could mooch about the house in shorts and t shirt in winter anyway. They're generally warm places :lol:
 
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The message is very important, but until Asian/African countries get their shit together it's like shouting at the wall.

Really......the developed world (and I include China in that) needs to take the lead. In terms of "clean energy" China is investing a huge amount more than anyone else but the Asian and African countries are a mere drop in the Ocean compared to the richer places at the moment. I can't find any data newer than 2015 but this is quite sobering :-

Each Country's Share of CO2 Emissions

Back then China and the US were responsible for 43% of the estimated global greenhouse gas emissions. I would argue that China, the US and the rest of the west need to get their shit together to give the poor bastards in Africa and Asia a chance.
 

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