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Ashes Squad

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rentaghost said:
Because the players that have been tried instead also have faults and look poorer bets than Balance?
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All the no 3's we've tried have had faults exposed. What I was questioning was why did Balance get a 2nd chance before others got a 1st?

All the no 3's we've tried have had faults exposed. What I was questioning was why did Balance get a 2nd chance before others got a 1st?
It's become clear Root has to bat but I wouldn't write off either Westley or Ballance further down the order.
 
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Parkside said:
All the no 3's we've tried have had faults exposed. What I was questioning was why did Balance get a 2nd chance before others got a 1st?

All the no 3's we've tried have had faults exposed. What I was questioning was why did Balance get a 2nd chance before others got a 1st?
It's become clear Root has to bat but I wouldn't write off either Westley or Ballance further down the order.
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I think the answer was because of his exceptional county form earlier in the season.

However he should have batted lower down the order rather than been exposed soo early as with the other people tried in that place.

We have one of the best batsman in the world, he should be batting at 3!
 
Voice of fair play said:
I think the answer was because of his exceptional county form earlier in the season.

However he should have batted lower down the order rather than been exposed soo early as with the other people tried in that place.

We have one of the best batsman in the world, he should be batting at 3!
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Yes and If Root had agreed to that in the 1st place we may well have had our batting order sorted by now.
 
Parkside said:
Yes and If Root had agreed to that in the 1st place we may well have had our batting order sorted by now.
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Yes 100% agree with that, it has been clear for a long time now it has been a problem position.

It's time for senior players to take responsibility for such a big series and it that means 1 or 2 players having to bat higher up the order than they prefer so be it!
 
For me -

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan (he deserves a chance to prove himself)
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
 
TheRey said:
For me -

Cook
Stoneman
Root
Malan (he deserves a chance to prove himself)
Hales
Stokes
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Broad
Anderson
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Your line up is fair enough because every possible suggestion has question marks. Yours has flaws in that can we really afford to have Hales and Malan batting 4 and 5 in an Ashes series. They have test match batting averages of 20 odd a piece and batting against higher quality bowling than they have faced previously.

While I wouldnt choose him I don't know how you can dismiss the suggestion of Buttler with a test average above Hales and Malan as 'lacking any credibility' and then think its reasonable to have Malan and Hales as two of our top 5.
 
It may seem crazy for some to consider Buttler considering his red ball form this season, however the lad just has something about him, big game mentality and a lot and lot of talent, I would not give up on Buttler yet.
 
rentaghost said:
Your line up is fair enough because every possible suggestion has question marks. Yours has flaws in that can we really afford to have Hales and Malan batting 4 and 5 in an Ashes series. They have test match batting averages of 20 odd a piece and batting against higher quality bowling than they have faced previously.

While I wouldnt choose him I don't know how you can dismiss the suggestion of Buttler with a test average above Hales and Malan as 'lacking any credibility' and then think its reasonable to have Malan and Hales as two of our top 5.
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It's open to debate of course, but for me Hales has been the most in form English batsman in 2017.
His innings at Lord's alone would get him into my side (the bastard), but in all forms he's been shit hot. Be utter madness to leave him out.
Malan - I'm unconvinced. But I think he's shown he can dig in when I needed, and has something about him - I'm not sold, by any means - but what's the alternative?

Buttler has played about 4 first class games in 3 years, and averages about 2. Be an absolutely ludicrous pick.
 
TheRey said:
It's open to debate of course, but for me Hales has been the most in form English batsman in 2017.
His innings at Lord's alone would get him into my side (the bastard), but in all forms he's been shit hot. Be utter madness to leave him out.
Malan - I'm unconvinced. But I think he's shown he can dig in when I needed, and has something about him - I'm not sold, by any means - but what's the alternative?

Buttler has played about 4 first class games in 3 years, and averages about 2. Be an absolutely ludicrous pick.
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Again the selection of Hales and non selection of Buttler are nowhere near as clear cut as you make out and selectors don't go looking at recent first class averages as the main criteria when selecting test sides down under. When they look at Hales they will consider that he will get nothing at all in his arc and will get 95% of his deliveries either short and aggressive (where he's poor) or 4th stump line where his technique gets found out. Its a far cry from scoring a great one day hundreds with no slips, little short pitch bowling or big runs against CC2 bowling. I wont describe the selection of either player as ludicrous though because whether you are talking about Hales, Malan, Westley, Ballance, Northeast, Livingstone etc there are major weaknesses with every argument but someone has to go.
 
rentaghost said:
Again the selection of Hales and non selection of Buttler are nowhere near as clear cut as you make out and selectors don't go looking at recent first class averages as the main criteria when selecting test sides down under. When they look at Hales they will consider that he will get nothing at all in his arc and will get 95% of his deliveries either short and aggressive (where he's poor) or 4th stump line where his technique gets found out. Its a far cry from scoring a great one day hundreds with no slips, little short pitch bowling or big runs against CC2 bowling. I wont describe the selection of either player as ludicrous though because whether you are talking about Hales, Malan, Westley, Ballance, Northeast, Livingstone etc there are major weaknesses with every argument but someone has to go.
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I would respectfully disagree and say that it really is that black and white,mate.

One is a player in incredible form, who has recently hit 180 not out, under pressure, to win his side a Lords final, has recently scored a double ton in red ball cricket, has shown he has every bit as much mentality and strength for international cricket as Buttler (more, IMO), averages as near as makes no difference to 50 in Championship cricket this season..

Or a bloke who has played 4 games in three years, who hasn't even been in scintillating form in white ball cricket, can't buy a run in red ball cricket and who's county members wonder why he's even in their First Class side when available.

Hales v Buttler is an absolute no contest for me!
 
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TheRey said:
I would respectfully disagree and say that it really is that black and white,mate.

One is a player in incredible form, who has recently hit 180 not out, under pressure, to win his side a Lords final, has recently scored a double ton in red ball cricket, has shown he has every bit as much mentality and strength for international cricket as Buttler (more, IMO), averages as near as makes no difference to 50 in Championship cricket this season..

Or a bloke who has played 4 games in three years, who hasn't even been in scintillating form in white ball cricket, can't buy a run in red ball cricket and who's county members wonder why he's even in their First Class side when available.

Hales v Buttler is an absolute no contest for me!
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And that's going to help him against his technical flaws against the moving ball with 4 slips and a gully how exactly? Or the persistent aggressive 90mph short stuff that he struggles against?You are mistaking two completely different sports my friend. I'm not supporting an inclusion for Buttler btw - they are both great one day players which is no basis at all for the examination their weaknesses will be exposed to over there. In Australia Hales will fail if he is selected and so would Buttler IMO.
 
rentaghost said:
And that's going to help him against the moving ball with 4 slips and a gully how exactly? You are mistaking two completely different sports my friend. I'm not supporting an inclusion for Buttler btw - they are both great one day players which is no basis at all for the examination their weaknesses will be exposed to over there. In Australia Hales will fail if he is selected and so would Buttler IMO.
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More a point to the form the lad is in - for your four slips and a gully argument, look at his 200* for Notts in the Championship recently.

Put him at five in the Ashes, and he'll succeed. He's one of the best batsmen in the country IMO, and has shown he can play Test cricket.

I also think he'd still be in the side as an opener were it not for turning down Bangladesh...
 
rentaghost said:
And that's going to help him against his technical flaws against the moving ball with 4 slips and a gully how exactly? Or the persistent aggressive 90mph short stuff that he struggles against?You are mistaking two completely different sports my friend. I'm not supporting an inclusion for Buttler btw - they are both great one day players which is no basis at all for the examination their weaknesses will be exposed to over there. In Australia Hales will fail if he is selected and so would Buttler IMO.
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This. We've criticised the selectors for choosing one day players for the test side for a while but plenty seem to be advocating Hales. His red ball record this season isn't anything special for Notts
 
Jack Torrance said:
This. We've criticised the selectors for choosing one day players for the test side for a while but plenty seem to be advocating Hales. His red ball record this season isn't anything special for Notts
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We also criticise England coaches and selectors of both football and cricket for not selecting players who are in form. Hales is bang in form!
 
TheRey said:
More a point to the form the lad is in - for your four slips and a gully argument, look at his 200* for Notts in the Championship recently.

Put him at five in the Ashes, and he'll succeed. He's one of the best batsmen in the country IMO, and has shown he can play Test cricket.

I also think he'd still be in the side as an opener were it not for turning down Bangladesh...
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Aye that injury hit Derby attack will have many a sleepless night after a knock that was outstanding preparation for Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood at Brisbane.

How averages 28 in test cricket. Its a test of patience for any bowler - keep bowling just outside off and he will nick a drive. Hes no more a proven test cricketer than Westley, Malan and Buttler.
 
TheRey said:
We also criticise England coaches and selectors of both football and cricket for not selecting players who are in form. Hales is bang in form!
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I'm not convinced by him in the longer format. Then again there aren't many alternatives, Northeast maybe as an outside bet
 
Buttler seems to get better the less he plays. It’s really quite simple

1) he has been a superb white ball player for England
2) he has been found wanting technically at test level (see point 4)
3) he doesn’t play enough red ball cricket full stop to justify serious consideration
4) we have batting issues across the top order. If your next choice isn’t trusted higher than 7, then he ain’t the solution

Don’t get me wrong, I like him as a cricketer and I would have no issue with him as a keeper batsman if Bairstow was injured, but he simply doesn’t deserve a place on his batting alone
 
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