Are You Optimistic/Pessimistic About the Future...


Well possibly but around 2 billion are dependent of fresh water from glacial melt in the Himalayas alone. That's a quarter of the entire population of the planet.

I see your point but there is a difference between developing a vaccine in a lab and the engineering solution needed to counter sea level rise. Just a few inches rise creates a much greater effect due to storm surge and current sea defences would be totally inadequate. So far the solution appears to be to simply abandon some places. If London did come under threat then the entire Thames Valley would be in danger.
In fact all of East Anglia would be in danger and most of west Lancashire.
Huge difference but the main thing binding them both together is once the west are in real grave danger, money and time is thrown at it, i just believe it'll be the same when we are in danger, it may be too late but nobody (huge government and large companies) will truly act till we are in danger.

The current solution is due to the rich countries not caring, if an island in the Indian ocean dissappears its on the news for a day and that's it.

The O zone was a huge issue, laws were brought in and solutions found, I know this is worse but that's one example of the rich countries acting once it started to show issues for them. Let's just hope it is solved otherwise life isn't worth living tbh and I don't want to have that outlook.
 
Glaciers have came and went throughout history. Itll likely kill a lot of people and cause mass migrations once again but we've done it as a species many times over.
Not in this timescale. The carbon dioxide released by human activity far outweighs any natural release, including the huge volcanoes. The average temperature has increased in a couple of hundred years, strongly matching the increase in CO2. In the past such natural changes have taken thousands of years.
 
They can make every better and also everything worse but that's basically the same for every time period and change of culture in our known history.

Were still blighted by disease but technology has made huge advancements that means people live longer and healthier overall. Even in poorer countries.

For example back in medieval times it is predicted around 1 in 3 women would die giving birth. That's an absolutely phenomenal death rate for something as natural as childbirth. Still lots die today but nowhere near 1 in 3.

However another comparison would be that back then it is estimated that the world population was around half a billion people and today is 8 billion so the solving od one major problem has helped effect another major problem become something in itself.

The high population then contributes to other issues such as climate change, lack of resources, higher crime, more likelihood of pandemics (especially worldwide ones due to enablement of travel), higher poverty etc.

These problems will likely end up seeing a decline in population, who knows how much damage we do to ourselves in the time it takes the population to balance out.

A lot of these things tend to end up balancing themselves out eventually. Like the Mongols killed an estimated 11% of the planets population. If you attribute the black death to them (which started with them and was spread through biological warfare) that would take that number significantly higher (estimated up to 50% of Europe died).

However the ramifications of both were that it had a massive positive effect on the environment as lots of land mass that was inhabited by humans went back to nature, more trees, plants etc made more carbon in the environment.

There's loads of examples of this scattered all through history matterless of the technology of the time. Life tends to work things out the way it's meant to eventually.

Why do we want people living longer?
 
Probably not but that is based on a scenario of 1.5 degrees rise rather than the current 2.7 degrees. Predictions are the Rhine could run dry altogether within the next 30-80 years, so by the end of the century at the latest depending on whether we limit temp rise to 1.5 which is extremely unlikely. So it's bye bye the Rhine one way or another. Doubt if the Danube will be much safer. Even if you consider it alarmist, it is a real event that will happen and we don't have anywhere near 200 years to avert disaster. It's deluded to think that because we left the EU that we will be exempt from the effect of so many countries in conflict over water.
I think you have the decimal point in the wrong place.
 
People have been predicting that kind of lifestyle for 70 years man but the reality is that more leisure time means more unemployment and poverty. You don't really think those with the wealth and power are ever going to share it with the rest do you so that they can live a life of pleasure?

You don't think our lives are any better than 70yrs ago?
 
I think you have the decimal point in the wrong place.
Explain.
If greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, the Alps glaciers are expected to lose more than 80% of their current mass by 2100. Many will disappear regardless of whatever emissions action is taken now, thanks to global warming baked in by past emissions, according to a 2019 report by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Swiss glaciers have lost more than six per cent of their total volume this year, recording its worst melting rate since record keeping began over a century ago, the Swiss Academy of Sciences said in their report on Wednesday.

If that rate continues they'll be gone in around 16 years.
You can deflect all you like but it is alarming whatever scenario you consider.
 
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Explain.
If greenhouse gas emissions continue to rise, the Alps glaciers are expected to lose more than 80% of their current mass by 2100. Many will disappear regardless of whatever emissions action is taken now, thanks to global warming baked in by past emissions, according to a 2019 report by the UN Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Swiss glaciers have lost more than six per cent of their total volume this year, recording its worst melting rate since record keeping began over a century ago, the Swiss Academy of Sciences said in their report on Wednesday.

If that rate continues they'll be gone in around 16 years.
You can deflect all you like but it is alarming whatever scenario you consider.
I’ll be interested to see the Rhine dried up in my life time.
 
I’ll be interested to see the Rhine dried up in my life time.
So nothing to do with my decimal points but the quote I posted,

Current calculations of the CHR and EUWID attest massive decrease or even drying out of the river within the next 30–80 years caused by the climate crisis.


The CHR being the International Commission for the Hydrology of the Rhine basin.
The EUWID being the Central Specialist Publication for the German Water Industry.
Aye, they know nowt...Harry says.
 
So nothing to do with my decimal points but the quote I posted,

Current calculations of the CHR and EUWID attest massive decrease or even drying out of the river within the next 30–80 years caused by the climate crisis.


The CHR being the International Commission for the Hydrology of the Rhine basin.
The EUWID being the Central Specialist Publication for the German Water Industry.
Aye, they know nowt...Harry says.
They’ve definitely got their decimal point in the wrong place.
 
I think another metric you could use is working hours to feed clothe and house yourself.

A few decades ago, a man working 40 hours could do all the above, as well as go to the pub and match, so keeping his family and having a past time, now I think to do the same we have both parents working and if thats not enough we get a top up from the state.

I think we have to work more to afford the basic's these days compared to the past, I think housing has to be the main factor for that, the very fact both parents need to work to afford a house is very telling.

And its getting harder and harder as time goes on.

With all the tech working hours for the basics should be dropping as we use tech to our advantage but the tech is used to drive profits for a few not to benefit the many.

Be interesting to workout what a family working hour commitment now is compared to back then to afford the basics in life.
 
I think another metric you could use is working hours to feed clothe and house yourself.

A few decades ago, a man working 40 hours could do all the above, as well as go to the pub and match, so keeping his family and having a past time, now I think to do the same we have both parents working and if thats not enough we get a top up from the state.

I think we have to work more to afford the basic's these days compared to the past, I think housing has to be the main factor for that, the very fact both parents need to work to afford a house is very telling.

And its getting harder and harder as time goes on.

With all the tech working hours for the basics should be dropping as we use tech to our advantage but the tech is used to drive profits for a few not to benefit the many.

Be interesting to workout what a family working hour commitment now is compared to back then to afford the basics in life.
In my own situation in the early 70s I worked in a relatively low paid job at the time (£20 per week believe it or not) with no overtime, was married with one kid and lived in rented accommodation. Still got out for a couple of nights a week, paid all bills and had no debt.
PS
Having said that gas and electric was cheap although they were nationalised. Water rates were trivial. We didn't pay Council Tax as Rates was included in with the rent. Petrol was cheap although I didn't run a car. Beer was pretty cheap as well comparatively speaking, five pints for a ten bob note (50p today).
Dope was cheap Affi Black was £10 an ounce.
Mind you didn't have the variety of food you get now in supermarkets from different countries.
 
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Why do we want people living longer?
Just a natural thing to strive to do isn't it. It's not that hard to understand why? Do you want to die sooner?
Not in this timescale. The carbon dioxide released by human activity far outweighs any natural release, including the huge volcanoes. The average temperature has increased in a couple of hundred years, strongly matching the increase in CO2. In the past such natural changes have taken thousands of years.
For sure but that just means we speed up the process. It ca still be undone, might take radical change or longer or might mean the world changes heavily but it's still natural to happen. Humans and what they do are a part of nature as well.
 
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For sure but that just means we speed up the process. It ca still be undone, might take radical change or longer or might mean the world changes heavily but it's still natural to happen. Humans and what they do are a part of nature as well.
Let’s hope so. But also we shouldn’t forget that we are in this mess due to greed and selfishness. Two human traits that are common in those who hold power.
 
nope, the jobs fucked.

A society of self obsessed, narcissistic sycophants who are only out for themselves. Imitation and fantasy is praised, negativity and realism is ignored, so there's now a massive imbalance. As it gets harder for the every day person to live, feed, house themselves, people will naturally get more selfish. But that's nothing compared to the greed of big companies and governments. Where there's money, there's power, and with both of those comes corruption.

The only thing that warms me is that my kids will see that the planet is truly an awe inspiring place to be, and I will encourage them to see and do as much in it as possible.
 
nope, the jobs fucked.

A society of self obsessed, narcissistic sycophants who are only out for themselves. Imitation and fantasy is praised, negativity and realism is ignored, so there's now a massive imbalance. As it gets harder for the every day person to live, feed, house themselves, people will naturally get more selfish. But that's nothing compared to the greed of big companies and governments. Where there's money, there's power, and with both of those comes corruption.

The only thing that warms me is that my kids will see that the planet is truly an awe inspiring place to be, and I will encourage them to see and do as much in it as possible.
Totally agree. I am going to be OK. I’ve earned enough bunse to see me through.

I have also done a huge amount for community and charity but nobody needs to know the details. It just helps me sleep at night.

I’m working hard with my own children to inspire and encourage them to work hard in all they try. However I can’t help feeling guilt that I have brought them into this shitness.

I’ll happily be housed in a Northumberland cottage in ten years’ time for the rest of my days. I’ll happily read as many books as I can and drink loads of fine wine. Can’t help feeling though that humans could have done so much better.
 
Can’t help feeling though that humans could have done so much better.
No doubt about it. It could be heaven but instead we make it hell. Like you said greed and selfishness have dominated mankind all though history. Round and round in circles, repeating the same mistakes over and over again. The delusion is believing we are better than our ancestors. I think it's a lack of security that brings out the arrogance in us, thinking we are better than others, more important when really we're all the same. If I lived in India I would spurn the Brahmins and upper castes to live among the Dalit (the untouchables) because at least they know truth. What makes us human at the core will survive whatever is to come.
 

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