Kent_Mackem
Striker
I suppose it depends on what you enjoy.
No doubting your ancestors though hahah
An interesting piece on Christian Scientists
- Thread starter taipeisafc
- Start date
No doubting your ancestors though hahah
Harry Angstrom
Striker
What you enjoy depends on the society you were born in and the times you were born in. You may not like it but a lot of what you believe comes from Judeo Christian morality. If that is off the table then society could be totally different.I suppose it depends on what you enjoy.
No doubting your ancestors though hahah
Charmless Man
Striker
Various religions have based their societies aroung doing that. Have you never read any of the abrahamic religious texts?
tunstall birdman
Striker
Whether we have have religion or not, man would still do this shit. Religion has caused some of this happening but also it has helped societies avoid doing such things.
There is good and bad in religion and there is good and bad in mankind, sometimes the good rules, sometimes the bad rules, tis the law of the jungle!
Charmless Man
Striker
Again, the MO of absolutely loads of religious societies. Indeed, 'God wills it' tends to be the justification.
Are you waffling for the sake of it?
pillars of hercules
Striker
In the modern age, it is beyond belief
Harry Angstrom
Striker
Funnily enough I haven't. Ancient Greece happily used the conquered as slaves. Seems reasonable.
No. There is a point to my waffling but you can fuck off.
I mean we all do. We dont reinvent the wheel every generation.
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Charmless Man
Striker
The idea that religion is necessary for morality is objectively not true. Notwithstanding the fact that enslaving your neighbours seems to be encouraged in many cases, in our best known holy texts.
Most of the commandments relating to behaviour toward your fellow humans are simply normal rules for encouraging a functioning society and existed before any supposed divine revelation.
I shant fuck off.
Harry Angstrom
Striker
See that's better. You are engaging in exchanging ideas.
I agree religion is not necessary but without it was a very hard sell. Most morals came from the divine early on.
Many ordered societies were horrendous for the majority of the punters.
Our world is fairly grim for many.
Th the world we have is how we have it because of religion even though I don't believe a word of it.
I assumed you wouldn't fuck off.
Daydream Believer
Striker
Raping, murdering, owning other humans as slaves & polygamy are all perfectly acceptable in Judeo Christian morality so long as the correct forms are observed. Most of what I believe comes from the people who defied the religious dogma to create more just laws.
dangermows
Striker
Love it how some people think they know there's no God. Makes me laugh. A lot.
AlpineExile
Striker
But that's exactly what the God of the Bible did give permission for, although you had to wait a month before raping your new slaves (probably just to make sure any bastard born was yours).
Harry Angstrom
Striker
The laws were handed down from above not just made up. That's my.point.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Why not?
Because we reckon it's not nice.
Ok.
There isn't. Fact.
Kent_Mackem
Striker
I think you’ve misunderstood, either deliberately or innocently. Either way you’re quite wrong.
The position of atheists (even a Richard Dawkins) is not “There is definitely no God”. Instead it is “There is no evidence to support the existence of God therefore I have no reason currently to move from the default position, that we all have at birth, of not believing.”
Is it fair to say that describes how you regard the existence of Poseidon? If you can quietly admit that much to yourself (once you have stopped laughing) then it’s not a huge step to extend that to the Christian god, who after all is just one of many on a long lost.
If you wish to understand the position of atheists first you need to define it correctly.
Once you get past the self-obsessive commandments about a jealous god, the rest are common sense. Societies are generally more successful when their members don’t go around shagging each other’s wives, stealing from each other and killing each other. Especially back in the day a tribe that could work together to catch their food would have been more successful.
On the subject of Thous Shalt Not Kill as one of the commandments, it is ironic how much god-sponsored killing goes on in The Bible. The happy clappers just ignore those bits though. Otherwise it would prompt incongruency.
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Nukehasslefan
Winger
I don't follow a god but I was certainly brought up to fear god.
I also had to sit at the table and take turns saying " for what we are about to receive may the lord make us truly thankful, amen."
We also had a nightly thing were we all said night, god bless before we went to sleep.
I was warned about being struck down if I went against god or did something wrong.
This was my very early days when it seemed everyone followed s similar type route, yet, in those early times I did not go to church and neither did my family.
As I grew up into a teenager my mother was separated from my father and she ended up being caught in her low ebb by mormon missionaries.
I have some strange memories of that church and the way my mother absorbed herself into it...trying to get all of us to be baptised.
I refused as did the other lads. The girls succumbed.
The thing is, a belief in something can give people a purpose whether others think it looks good or not.
Many people re-ignite their lives and faith by joining something like these churches, whatever one's they fall into.
It's easy for a person who does not believe in a god to deny the existence of a god and nobody should be able to tell them they're wrong for not believing, just as a person who does not believe should not tell a person they know there is no god and they're praying to nothing, because to that person they are praying to something in their mind/faith.
If a person said they saw a deceased family member appear before them and talked to them, you have to accept that they believe what they saw and we cannot simply call them a liar or tell them they've manifested it all.
Logic dictates normality to those who do not see/feel or have faith in something outside of that realm.
The thing is, logic also dictates to a person who has strong faith, that there is a god of some description.
The major issue with beliefs generally comes from peer pressure and coaxing into a belief by mass adherence to a popular belief system. Most people will follow a set route on their own patch/city/country.
Many will simply follow a path paved for them from birth by parents and will stay loyal to that path out of respect for their parent.
There's no real right or wrong way to look at any of this. We all simply follow a pattern and generally hold an affiliation to following it.
Even down to football clubs.
Most people in Newcastle will follow Newcastle United and most people in Sunderland will follow Sunderland. They naturally feel an affiliation. It is their religion, sort of. They follow a pattern from birth in many cases from family history against club history.
A higher being/entity/god serves a host of purposes and not all good...but certainly not all bad, either.
I look at it in a very simple way.
If I ask for something from a god, will I get it?
The answer will normally be, yes if it's his will.
However, if I pray to god and ask for many things I can be sure I'll be granted a few of my wishes.
If I was to pray to a teddy bear in the corner and ask it for all the same stuff, I'd likely get a few of my wishes.
Did god and teddy provide them or did randomness come to the fore?
That's not dig at anything. I say each to their own. I know it can help many people, having a faith/belief system...but there can also be downsides to it as I've seen on a few occasions with people.
It's about searching your own mind to best fit a logic, without the aid of peer pressure if you can.
All I say to anyone is: never be canvassed into a religion by door knockers when you're at a low ebb. You can be coaxed into doing a lot of things you wouldn't rationally do when you're at a low ebb.
Just my opinion and nothing more than that.
I also had to sit at the table and take turns saying " for what we are about to receive may the lord make us truly thankful, amen."
We also had a nightly thing were we all said night, god bless before we went to sleep.
I was warned about being struck down if I went against god or did something wrong.
This was my very early days when it seemed everyone followed s similar type route, yet, in those early times I did not go to church and neither did my family.
As I grew up into a teenager my mother was separated from my father and she ended up being caught in her low ebb by mormon missionaries.
I have some strange memories of that church and the way my mother absorbed herself into it...trying to get all of us to be baptised.
I refused as did the other lads. The girls succumbed.
The thing is, a belief in something can give people a purpose whether others think it looks good or not.
Many people re-ignite their lives and faith by joining something like these churches, whatever one's they fall into.
It's easy for a person who does not believe in a god to deny the existence of a god and nobody should be able to tell them they're wrong for not believing, just as a person who does not believe should not tell a person they know there is no god and they're praying to nothing, because to that person they are praying to something in their mind/faith.
If a person said they saw a deceased family member appear before them and talked to them, you have to accept that they believe what they saw and we cannot simply call them a liar or tell them they've manifested it all.
Logic dictates normality to those who do not see/feel or have faith in something outside of that realm.
The thing is, logic also dictates to a person who has strong faith, that there is a god of some description.
The major issue with beliefs generally comes from peer pressure and coaxing into a belief by mass adherence to a popular belief system. Most people will follow a set route on their own patch/city/country.
Many will simply follow a path paved for them from birth by parents and will stay loyal to that path out of respect for their parent.
There's no real right or wrong way to look at any of this. We all simply follow a pattern and generally hold an affiliation to following it.
Even down to football clubs.
Most people in Newcastle will follow Newcastle United and most people in Sunderland will follow Sunderland. They naturally feel an affiliation. It is their religion, sort of. They follow a pattern from birth in many cases from family history against club history.
A higher being/entity/god serves a host of purposes and not all good...but certainly not all bad, either.
I look at it in a very simple way.
If I ask for something from a god, will I get it?
The answer will normally be, yes if it's his will.
However, if I pray to god and ask for many things I can be sure I'll be granted a few of my wishes.
If I was to pray to a teddy bear in the corner and ask it for all the same stuff, I'd likely get a few of my wishes.
Did god and teddy provide them or did randomness come to the fore?
That's not dig at anything. I say each to their own. I know it can help many people, having a faith/belief system...but there can also be downsides to it as I've seen on a few occasions with people.
It's about searching your own mind to best fit a logic, without the aid of peer pressure if you can.
All I say to anyone is: never be canvassed into a religion by door knockers when you're at a low ebb. You can be coaxed into doing a lot of things you wouldn't rationally do when you're at a low ebb.
Just my opinion and nothing more than that.
Harry Angstrom
Striker
Common sense when you have been brought up in a Judeo Christian influenced society.
Without the threat of State sponsored violence your common sense society would breakdown very very quickly.
AlpineExile
Striker
So, so long as the laws are "handed down from above": you'd be quite happy to slaughter the folk in neighbouring villages, stealing their livestock and enslaving their women?
That's hardly very reassuring to know.
Harry Angstrom
Striker
You'd be doing at as well and think it great fun.
AlpineExile
Striker
Nah, my parents brought me up not to listen to the man behind the curtain without evidence.
